[1.11] RemoteTech v1.9.9 [2020-12-19]

[neitsa]

1 minute ago, Grem said:

I apologize for probably silly question, but what is the meaning of this mod is now if the game has ComNet? What are the differences?

Nope, not a silly question, especially if you never used RemoteTech (RT) before CommNet was introduced. 

As of 1.8.x version of RT: 

• Different antennas
• Harder rules for controlling probes (if you have no connection your probe is just an expensive flying brick... it wont respond to any commands)
• Delay (speed of light effect): if you probe is around duna (without any in between relay) you get approximately a 1 minute delay for each command (i.e. if you press a key or a button the effect is seen only after 1 minute has elapsed in the game)
• Different range models: CommNet use a easier range model than RT (how far you can be from any other connection point to get a signal); RT has two range models.
• A flight computer to enter command ahead of time (due to the connection delay you have to make a flight plan ahead of time)

RT version 2.x - currently in the making - will add other (completely optional) options.

[Grem]

Thank you, so better to use the RT? And how then to ComNet do? Turn off in the settings? Or they can work together?

[neitsa]

8 minutes ago, Grem said:

so better to use the RT?

Depends: if you think the actual CommNet behavior is a little bit to simple / easy, I would recommend to give a try to RT. 

8 minutes ago, Grem said:

And how then to ComNet do? Turn off in the settings? Or they can work together?

As of now (RT 1.8.x branch), RT and CommNet are mutually exclusive. If you install RT, then CommNet is disabled.

The next major version (RT 2.x) is built on top of CommNet for a better integration with KSP, but using (nearly) the same rules as before. So yeah, for 2.x the integration will be mostly transparent to the player. Simply put, RT 2.x is a beefed up version of CommNet with a lot more options.

Edited December 18, 2016 by neitsa
typos

[Grem]

Thanks for clarifying. I have long wanted to try, I think now is the time.

[garwel]

2 hours ago, neitsa said:

Harder rules for controlling probes (if you have no connection your probe is just an expensive flying brick... it wont respond to any commands)

To be fair, CommNet also has this as an option.

[Yemo]

2 hours ago, Grem said:

Thanks for clarifying. I have long wanted to try, I think now is the time.

Also remote tech is easier to configure to your taste (eg you can disable signal delay).

And in remote tech you do not need a spreadsheet to calculate antenna ranges if you do not wish so.

[crapstar]

Go @neitsa!

https://github.com/RemoteTechnologiesGroup/RemoteTech-Complete/commits/e056fa5c8a74bd14f05d64acdac665e6ad865d0b 

Edited December 19, 2016 by crapstar
typo

[neitsa]

6 hours ago, crapstar said:

Go @neitsa!

https://github.com/RemoteTechnologiesGroup/RemoteTech-Complete/commits/e056fa5c8a74bd14f05d64acdac665e6ad865d0b 

As a side note:

• As I'm the RT maintainer I'm taking care of managing (repo organizations, continuous integration, packaging, etc.) the various modules but by no means I'm the only one to code on it. @TaxiService and @Yamori Yuki are working hard on RT 2.x.
• RemoteTech-Complete (as it name implies :)) will be the complete package with all RemoteTech modules for RT 2.x
• If you want to follow the other packages, please go to the group page: https://github.com/RemoteTechnologiesGroup ("RemotTech" repository is the current RemoteTech 1.8.x  & 1.7.x branches)
• I would advise against even testing RT 2.x until we release an alpha. It is very rough as of now and far from being finished (crash and corruption are possible outcomes).

 

[Jaxx]

how would i go about using the flight computer to align a probe telescope to point directly at a target celestial body? using tgt grd+ doesn't do it, just makes it point along the orbital prograde  and i can't use the natural SAS modules to point directly at target given there's about a .2 second delay and it flips out and overcompensates. the best working result i can manage is a custom heading input but that seems ridiculous

[TaxiService]

19 hours ago, Jaxx said:

how would i go about using the flight computer to align a probe telescope to point directly at a target celestial body? using tgt grd+ doesn't do it, just makes it point along the orbital prograde  and i can't use the natural SAS modules to point directly at target given there's about a .2 second delay and it flips out and overcompensates. the best working result i can manage is a custom heading input but that seems ridiculous

The flight computer is supposed to aim at a designated-target celestial body but it is clearly broken in the current RT 1.8.x branch. Thanks for finding this bug and I will open an issue on RT github on this.

Edit: Added

Edit 2: Fixed the bug. It will be in the next release of RT soon^TM

Edited December 20, 2016 by TaxiService

[bckspstuff]

On 12/18/2016 at 9:51 AM, Yemo said:

Also remote tech is easier to configure to your taste (eg you can disable signal delay).

And in remote tech you do not need a spreadsheet to calculate antenna ranges if you do not wish so.

Awe but some of us enjoy spreadsheets.

See ... https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B5ueM3XtKbZ7bVU0b3l4TmhKRzg

BTW, love the mod!

[Rough Draft]

Starting a new game with remote tech and may other mods. "Enable Comm Network" is toggled on by default. Do i need to turn it off?

[TaxiService]

41 minutes ago, Rough Draft said:

Starting a new game with remote tech and may other mods. "Enable Comm Network" is toggled on by default. Do i need to turn it off?

It doesn't matter whether this option is on or off as the RemoteTech will disable CommNet anyway at the start of a new game.

[Rough Draft]

Just now, TaxiService said:

It doesn't matter whether this option is on or off as the RemoteTech will disable CommNet anyway at the start of a new game.

Awesome sorry for the dumb question. 

[Grem]

Good mod. I really liked. Thank's. I look forward to the new version.

Edited December 22, 2016 by Grem

[Zhetaan]

I hope not to derail anything, but I was looking over and comparing the modifications that RemoteTech makes to the stock antennas and was wondering about some of the rationale behind the choices especially with regard to the future of some of the parts.  For example, the stock Communotron-16S looks very much like the DP-10 (I can guess where they got the idea for the model), appears fairly early in the tech tree, and has vastly increased range for only twice the power--and at .02 EC/second, that's not asking much.  I understand that the original set of antennas was added to extend rather than replace the stock set, but now that stock has filled out many of the gaps in antenna coverage, this means we have duplicates.  I like there being a selection for different purposes at similar ranges (for example, between a dish with slightly longer range and a wide cone or an Omni with shorter range but also lower power requirements), but there are cases where the types line up, as in my DP-10/Communotron-16S example.

My question is whether this means we can expect to see other, more profound differences between certain RemoteTech antennas that now have a stock near-analogue, that this means those antennas may be deprecated in a future release, or that things will proceed as they are now.  Since one of the proposals for v2.0 includes a standalone parts pack, I think it's something to consider if it's not being considered already.

[TaxiService]

18 hours ago, Zhetaan said:

I hope not to derail anything, but I was looking over and comparing the modifications that RemoteTech makes to the stock antennas and was wondering about some of the rationale behind the choices especially with regard to the future of some of the parts.  For example, the stock Communotron-16S looks very much like the DP-10 (I can guess where they got the idea for the model), appears fairly early in the tech tree, and has vastly increased range for only twice the power--and at .02 EC/second, that's not asking much.  I understand that the original set of antennas was added to extend rather than replace the stock set, but now that stock has filled out many of the gaps in antenna coverage, this means we have duplicates.  I like there being a selection for different purposes at similar ranges (for example, between a dish with slightly longer range and a wide cone or an Omni with shorter range but also lower power requirements), but there are cases where the types line up, as in my DP-10/Communotron-16S example.

My question is whether this means we can expect to see other, more profound differences between certain RemoteTech antennas that now have a stock near-analogue, that this means those antennas may be deprecated in a future release, or that things will proceed as they are now.  Since one of the proposals for v2.0 includes a standalone parts pack, I think it's something to consider if it's not being considered already.

Hi, the RT team discussed this topic regarding distinguishing both RT and stock antennas. At the minimum, we will remove the DP-10 antenna completely in RT 2.x and reassign Comm 16-S to the start tech node. The remaining antennas in RT 2.x will be re-balanced to easily differentiate as we did not rebalance them in RT 1.8.x branch.

Beyond these, it is a little bit early in our redevelopment stage to get clear ideas on what to do about the antennas and their functionalities, other than some interesting design ideas for the antennas (no further details for public).

Edited December 23, 2016 by TaxiService

[Guest]

4 hours ago, TaxiService said:

... At the minimum, we will remove the DP-10 antenna completely in RT 2.x and reassign Comm 16-S to the start tech node....

Remove or obsolete?

[Climberfx]

Remote Tech Github download link on first page/post still link to 1.7.2 (1.1.3 KSP)

 

[TaxiService]

11 hours ago, WildLynx said:

Remove or obsolete?

This DP-10 part will be dropped from the part package of RT 2.x. We are not making it hidden from the part list in VAB/SPA for the RT 2.x branch because RT 2.x is completely incompatible with the RT 1.x saves.

4 hours ago, Climberfx said:

Remote Tech Github download link on first page/post still link to 1.7.2 (1.1.3 KSP)

According to the Github documentation, the latest release tag is based on the timestamp of a release added, not schematic so this tag can't swapped easily. But this is going to be moot anyway as the next release RT 1.8.4 (non-critical bug fixes) is to be put up later.

Edited December 24, 2016 by TaxiService

[ROXunreal]

I have connection but for some reason the craft says I don't even though the antennas are clearly activated and connected.

As can be seen the probe is connected to a relay satellite in high polar orbit which relays the signal to a commsat network in equatorial orbit which send the signal to KSC. All antennas and connections are "ok" and "connected", the map shows the yellow beams meaning that they're connected, both craft have power and everything is up to date. I can control the probe via omni when above KSC, but the dish simply does not work.

 

Edited December 25, 2016 by ROXunreal

[nixeagle]

The flight computer seems to "forget" commands when you close the game and reopen it. If I tell my probe to execute a burn 15m in the future and then close the game, it forgets the instruction.

Reproduction steps:

1. Use latest version of RT.
2. Select any craft in orbit with communication to ksp.
3. Open map view
4. Place a maneuver node on the opposite side of the craft. For our purposes, you don't have to actually have the node do anything, it just needs to be there.
5. Use the flight computer to "exec" the node. Note at this point, you will be able to see that there is a planned maneuver XXmYYs in the future.
6. Close the game out, I actually exited to the space center, swapped to another craft and then back first. So I'm reasonably sure it had time to auto save.
7. Reopen the game
8. Go to tracking station and select your craft again.
9. Look at the flight computer and note that it forgot the burn.

---

Obviously a burn 15 minutes into the future is unlikely to be exited out of, but one that is 10 days into the future might very well be.

Apologies if this has already been addressed. 

Edited December 25, 2016 by nixeagle

[TaxiService]

19 hours ago, nixeagle said:

The flight computer seems to "forget" commands when you close the game and reopen it. If I tell my probe to execute a burn 15m in the future and then close the game, it forgets the instruction.

Reproduction steps:

1. Use latest version of RT.
2. Select any craft in orbit with communication to ksp.
3. Open map view
4. Place a maneuver node on the opposite side of the craft. For our purposes, you don't have to actually have the node do anything, it just needs to be there.
5. Use the flight computer to "exec" the node. Note at this point, you will be able to see that there is a planned maneuver XXmYYs in the future.
6. Close the game out, I actually exited to the space center, swapped to another craft and then back first. So I'm reasonably sure it had time to auto save.
7. Reopen the game
8. Go to tracking station and select your craft again.
9. Look at the flight computer and note that it forgot the burn.

---

Obviously a burn 15 minutes into the future is unlikely to be exited out of, but one that is 10 days into the future might very well be.

Apologies if this has already been addressed. 

Hi,

We can't reproduce this bug as it is verified that the command queue is correctly persistent across different scenes, included the scene order outlined in your reproduction steps. Can you check on your side again, please? In addition, post your output_log.txt for quick checking on information. (One member thought that one of your mods may malfunction in OnSave(), preventing your command queue from being stored to your save when switching the scene.)

On 12/25/2016 at 8:21 PM, ROXunreal said:

I have connection but for some reason the craft says I don't even though the antennas are clearly activated and connected.

As can be seen the probe is connected to a relay satellite in high polar orbit which relays the signal to a commsat network in equatorial orbit which send the signal to KSC. All antennas and connections are "ok" and "connected", the map shows the yellow beams meaning that they're connected, both craft have power and everything is up to date. I can control the probe via omni when above KSC, but the dish simply does not work.

I can't determine from those screenshots why the bug is caused. I need a full bug report, please.

Edited December 26, 2016 by TaxiService

[Jiraiyah]

@TaxiService

Hi sir, if this is not so much trouble, please download my install of game data (you need to add the squad and remote tech folders yourself) and try adding a prob core (stock or provided by any mod) + mono propelant + rcs (stock or provided by any mod) and try turning on rcs on the launch pad using "R" key, if you remember, some time ago i mentioned that it was not wirking, but during the time, when i was fiddling with mods to have, it was solved, but noe trying to install mods in 1.2.2 it is there again, thankfully the size was small enough to pack the game data folder to send you the whole thing, here is the link for it

https://www.dropbox.com/s/pql5cfr2kfeyjml/GameData.rar?dl=0

as i said, in this zip file, there is no remote tech and for reducing the size, i removed the squad folder for it too.

thanks for your help

[TaxiService]

1 hour ago, Jiraiyah said:

@TaxiService

Hi sir, if this is not so much trouble, please download my install of game data (you need to add the squad and remote tech folders yourself) and try adding a prob core (stock or provided by any mod) + mono propelant + rcs (stock or provided by any mod) and try turning on rcs on the launch pad using "R" key, if you remember, some time ago i mentioned that it was not wirking, but during the time, when i was fiddling with mods to have, it was solved, but noe trying to install mods in 1.2.2 it is there again, thankfully the size was small enough to pack the game data folder to send you the whole thing, here is the link for it

https://www.dropbox.com/s/pql5cfr2kfeyjml/GameData.rar?dl=0

as i said, in this zip file, there is no remote tech and for reducing the size, i removed the squad folder for it too.

thanks for your help

Thanks for the uploading your GameData of 130+ mods (!). I gave it a go and found some results on different configurations of parts

Spoiler

As you can see from the screenshots (pardon the null-exception spam), I can toggle and command RCS on stock parts. However, not every third-party part can be work with RemoteTech (RSC parts do nothing or a probe ignores the RCS press) because they are either not patched or using different ways other than RemoteTech. 

I think the workaround for you is to use the stock parts as much as possible while enjoying your rich library of mods.

Let me think more about this implication of such many third-party mods, in which some mods are so old or not patched for RT.

(For those who are curious on the effect of the 130+ mods on my middle-end computer, see below)

Spoiler

• Tested on KSP 1.2.2 and RT develop branch
• The squad-monkey loading screen lasted over 10 mins
• Switching between scenes took 1 minute
• 2.5 to 4 Gb RAM was observed when playing KSP at various scenes
• Endless stream of errors (like NullReferenceException and part not found)
• Congratulation, you made my 2016-built computer sluggish for the first time and I even got a driver crash
• 2.52 Gb of mods in space
• It is a miracle that KSP didn't freak out or crash

 

Edited December 26, 2016 by TaxiService