Female Veteran Kerbals

[WillThe84th]

This is a small suggestion, but something I would like to see added would be at least one more female Veteran Kerbal. I feel like it's still kind of unequal to have three males and only one female and would really like to see at least one more.

[Wjolcz]

That's because female kerbals were originally not intended to be in a game about flying rockets. In the pre-0.16 times there were not even other crews available. Just the three main characters.

[Pthigrivi]

I think so too, Will. I mean there's a lot that can happen, but at some point I would love to see kerbals given some uniqueness, just different hair and glasses and things. It would do so much for people's ability to latch on and role play. At this point giving both Bill and Bob some individual character and adding a few more gals to the the orange suit line up would be really great. The KSC staff could use a few ladies as well.

Edited May 16, 2016 by Pthigrivi

[Nothalogh]

If I wanted to play Gender Studies, i wouldn't be playing a game about flight and orbital mechanics.

 tumblr pls go

[Pthigrivi]

Well, hopefully without starting a huge fight, there's no reason whatsoever anyone should feel threatened by images of gender equality anywhere.

[steve_v]

Meh, not sure I get why kerbals are gendered at all. It's not like it makes a lick of difference gameplay-wise.
They're small green creatures with oversized heads, living mysteriously appearing on an otherwise lifeless miniature planet... no hints are given as to their biology or culture. Why should an obviously alien life-form reflect human dimorphism, let alone human values?

Then again, I'm into Kerbal Space Engineering, not Kerbal Space Role-playing, so I don't really care. Most of the time pilots are a nuisance.
OTOH, there's no real reason not to add some more orange-suits, it wouldn't be difficult.

Edited May 16, 2016 by steve_v

[The_Rocketeer]

Oh God, another anti-sexism post.

[Waxing_Kibbous]

I have no problem from an idealistic standpoint adding a female scientist and engineer to the orange suits, but I think it may be a balance issue? That would be 2 full teams to start out with.

[WillThe84th]

1 hour ago, The_Rocketeer said:

Oh God, another anti-sexism post.

This wasn't meant to be an anti-sexism post, it was just supposed to be a suggestion to add more veterans, and while they're at it, make them female.

[Pthigrivi]

Can we agree to try real hard not to derail this thread? I swear we can do it guys.

58 minutes ago, Waxing_Kibbous said:

I have no problem from an idealistic standpoint adding a female scientist and engineer to the orange suits, but I think it may be a balance issue? That would be 2 full teams to start out with.

I actually think getting even 3 free kerbals is too much. I'd love if when you first start out you have to decide who your first few hires would be. Jeb and Val and the rest would just be there in the applicant pile. 

[Triop]

I'd like to have Kerbin monkeys so I can put them in my probes...Male or female.

Edited May 16, 2016 by Triop

[Superfluous J]

13 minutes ago, Triop said:

I'd like to have Kerbin monkeys so I can put them in my probes...Male or female.

Actually considering how much the Kerbals contribute to the missions, monkeys would be an improvement.

Regarding Orange suited Kerbals, I'd like it if when starting a game you got to decide how many you got and their names, genders, and professions.

[Triop]

Option to change the skin into any color would be cool.

[WillThe84th]

32 minutes ago, Triop said:

Option to change the skin into any color would be cool.

Kerbal diversity in general would be cool, like what you said along with different hair styles and colors.

[Snark]

3 hours ago, Pthigrivi said:

I would love to see kerbals given some uniqueness, just different hair and glasses and things. It would do so much for people's ability to latch on and role play.

+1 to this, would love to see some variety.  Make it "deterministically random" based on the kerbal name (the way profession used to be), so that the same-named kerbal always looks the same when he or she shows up.

Though honestly, I'd be happy if the orange-suited kerbals, whom I can see in their orange suits in the ship in cutaway view, would just keep their orange suits when they step outside on EVA...

[thereaverofdarkness2]

7 hours ago, Nothalogh said:

If I wanted to play Gender Studies, i wouldn't be playing a game about flight and orbital mechanics.

 tumblr pls go

I agree.

 

I feel like the original kerbals were intended to not have any sex, but the insistance of SJW players that they are all male pushed Squad to make a second kerbal sex. They handled it brilliantly, however, and gave the two sexes a very distinct dimorphism without assigning the majority of our cultural gender stereotypes to any of them. The females are rounder and have long hair and that's it.

6 hours ago, Waxing_Kibbous said:

I have no problem from an idealistic standpoint adding a female scientist and engineer to the orange suits, but I think it may be a balance issue? That would be 2 full teams to start out with.

Or add 2 and let the player select one of each job.

[yorshee]

1 minute ago, thereaverofdarkness2 said:

I feel like the original kerbals were intended to not have any sex, but the insistance of SJW players that they are all male pushed Squad to make a second kerbal sex.

I agree that female Kerbals are well-designed, but 1) I never saw any Tumblr-esque banshees yelling at Squad to add female Kerbals, rather Squad did it because they themselves wanted to add female Kerbals to the game, and 2) the Kerbals with non-randomly generated names (Jebediah, Bob, Bill, Neil, Buzz, Elon etc.) are all male names, and the randomly generated names (like 'Neilfry', 'Gregdorf', or 'Nedry') all use prefixes and suffixes from masculine names. Plus they have receding hairlines and square jaws, it's hard to not see the male Kerbals as male.

[Red Iron Crown]

Just this once can we have a discussion about female kerbals that doesn't devolve into accusations of SJWing and such? Please?

[John JACK]

11 hours ago, 5thHorseman said:

Actually considering how much the Kerbals contribute to the missions, monkeys would be an improvement.

Best crew will be green fluffy dogs. At first dogs can pilot alone, but want to go home soon. Later bigger pods are unlocked, for a dog and a kerbal. Kerbal feeds a dog, and dog keeps a kerbal out of controls.

[Whirligig Girl]

Right now Valentina serves a gameplay purpose. Early in the game, you could really screw up if you were to lose your only pilot. Having both Jeb and Val serves a useful gameplay purpose that two more Kerbals would not serve. The main four characters may be 3/4 male, but the rest of the kerbal generator is 50/50 male/female. Just because the first four are mostly male does not mean it's sexist. I always thought of the veteran Kerbals to be brothers and sister. There are real world families that are three sons and a daughter. The skewed fraction is not inherently sexist. The representation of Valentina as a veteran kerbal on her own, with no gameplay differences from her male counterparts, is in my opinion enough. That said, I would still welcome an extra two female Kerbals, perhaps named Svetlana Kerman and either Mae Kerman or Sally Kerman. I don't feel that they would be necessary.

However, the problem with gender diversity in KSP does exist: just not as the astronauts. None of the KSC staff are female. No female engineers or scientists, no female administrator staff. We still have a few buildings which we could add female administrators for. The Tracking Station could have a "software-enginner" named Margaret [Hamilton] Kerman. You could even give the Engineer Report function for the VAB/SPH a face, and have that be a female Kerbal. Still not equal representation among administrators, but that coupled with the male and female KSC engineers, ground crews, and scientists on the VAB/SPH floor, can get it closer.

Edited May 16, 2016 by GregroxMun

[Frozen_Heart]

I don't think that another two named characters are needed tbh.

Though if they are added, make it so at the start of career you pick 3 out of the 6 main characters to keep it balanced. Starting with 4 is already too much.

[razark]

2 hours ago, GregroxMun said:

We still have a few buildings which we could add female administrators for. The Tracking Station could have a "software-enginner" named Margaret [Hamilton] Kerman. You could even give the Engineer Report function for the VAB/SPH a face, and have that be a female Kerbal.

Another possible option would be to have a pool of several pre-made Kerbals for each "position".  When you start a save, the game randomly pulls one of the options, and you get a diverse choice of ground-staff, and it's not always the same.

Or have the occupant of each position change based on time?  After all, Kerbals have probably figured out the concept of work shifts.  That way, you get to see more Kerbals adding to the sense that there's actually more than a tiny handful of those little green critters.

Edited May 16, 2016 by razark

[Whirligig Girl]

40 minutes ago, razark said:

Another possible option would be to have a pool of several pre-made Kerbals for each "position".  When you start a save, the game randomly pulls one of the options, and you get a diverse choice of ground-staff, and it's not always the same.

Or have the occupant of each position change based on time?  After all, Kerbals have probably figured out the concept of work shifts.  That way, you get to see more Kerbals adding to the sense that there's actually more than a tiny handful of those little green critters.

Maybe have different characters assigned to different jobs, maybe even to the point of assigning astronauts in administration positions. But Bob in charge of R&D, and you get more science returned on a mission. Put Bill in charge, you get more tech for each unit of science. You could have Wernher von Kerman in charge of the VAB and, I don't know, get a discount on fins?  Put Gus in charge and manned spacecraft are cheaper. You could then have several different characters controlling different functions of the space program. Some of those characters could be female.

[Slam_Jones]

Not sure what all Squad has on their plate, but I think this idea (which does not affect gameplay, balancing, or literally anything else the devs should have to worry about) is best left to the modding community, so the devs can work on, y'know, important stuff.  Not the 'inequality' of what comes down to a couple of pixels worth of difference in a game where it makes literally no difference.

Edited May 16, 2016 by Slam_Jones

[KSK]

17 minutes ago, Slam_Jones said:

Not sure what all Squad has on their plate, but I think this idea (which does not affect gameplay, balancing, or literally anything else the devs should have to worry about) is best left to the modding community, so the devs can work on, y'know, important stuff.  Not the 'inequality' of what comes down to a couple of pixels worth of difference in a game where it makes literally no difference.

Except it clearly is important to quite a lot of people. Female kerbals have been a perennial bone of contention ever since I've been on these forums and probably long before that. Even the fact that they've been an established game feature for how many versions now, hasn't stopped this thread from popping up. Besides, I would counter your argument by saying that anything affecting public perception (whether or not you feel that perception is warranted) of KSP is very much Squad's business and probably not something they should leave to modders.

Anyhow, I don't propose to rehash the, frankly tired, old arguments from either side. I'm ducking out of this thread before it gets locked.