Female Kerbals - opinions

[ruiluth]

Firstly, let me say that I do not think this thread falls into the category of "Discussions of a political, ideological or religious nature". It is directly about the state of the game and makes no more statement or ideology than the developers did when they made this decision. If this goes against forum rules, I apologize and someone can feel free to lock or delete this thread.

So Valentina's been wearing the orange suit for a while now, and I've had thoughts running through my head this whole time about that. Before we had female kerbals, in my head-canon kerbals were plant creatures without gender who reproduced via... I dunno probably budding. Now that we have female kerbals, this completely changes the dynamics of kerbal life. It gives kerbals a reproductive life like our own, with all the complexities that brings. It draws all the controversy in real life into KSP and drown it in a sea of politics. For example, now that bathroom segregation is apparently a thing, when I build space stations it always crosses my mind whether to have segregated crew quarters or not. Of course in real life there are plenty of mixed-gender missions, but I tend to picture kerbals as children and not nearly as mature as real astronauts.

This doesn't really bother me that much, it's fairly easy to deal with and there are mods to change it, but in my mind it was not a good development decision and opened the door for KSP to become a lot more controversial than it is. I can already picture an outcry over why there are THREE male orange suits and ONE female one. In my games she always ends up being the "backup" pilot, the one who goes if Jeb isn't available. That means she ends up doing a lot of tourist contracts by herself in the Kerbin system while Jeb Bill & Bob are off exploring the solar system. I feel kind of bad for her, but yet if there was a whole crew of female kerbonauts I would always be picturing them as upstart rivals to the three veterans that I've grown attached to. I think it would have been better to keep the kerbals gender-neutral and avoid all this.

Has anyone else thought of this, or am I floundering way off in the deep end?

By the way, everybody please keep this clean and follow forum rules. I don't want to start a fight but to share opinions on this topic. Please just be respectful and discerning.

EDIT:

A few good solutions have been proposed, such as:

1. Kerbals are "Unified, utopian, and pacifistic little guys that just wish to explore the cosmos." by @FungusForge
2. The two types of kerbals are actually similar but totally unrelated species. by @Overland
3. "nowhere in the game is Kerbal sex or gender specified...Squad have confirmed as much and it says so in the savefile, but it's never explicit in KSP itself." by @cantab

I think my question/concern is more than answered and I am quite satisfied, and unfortunately I realize that opening this discussion was probably not a wise choice. I think this thread is balancing on a knife's edge and I would appreciate if it were locked or closed to prevent it from slipping into discussions we don't want.

Edited May 31, 2016 by ruiluth
Think maybe this thread was a bad idea

[Cunjo Carl]

Hmm. I have to admit, I think of the Kerbals as funny facsimiles of us people. When I think of them I think of Jeb as a crazy awesome pilot like Gordon Cooper (see Gemini 5 landing), and I like to think of Bob as someone like Harrison "look how yellow this moon rock is!" Schmitt. I like someone who I can imagine fills the roll of Sunny Williams, or (gasp!) even Valentina! Plus they totally needed another pilot, Jeb dies way too fast for new players :). Also, I wouldn't think too hard about Kerbal reproduction. You realize they all have the same last name . Cheers!

[qromodynmc]

I dont even check who flies my plane.

[ZooNamedGames]

From what I've seen- she's the second best kerbal. There's been no outcry against female Kerbals or anything. I especially don't have anything against them but after a bug in 1.0 I stopped using them since my roster ended up 80-90% filled with female Kerbals. I'm all for both genders, but I want a better balence than that.

[EliasDanger]

Female Kerbals are awesome. If Kerbals were meant to be gender neutral, they wouldnt have male specific names like Jeb, Bob, or Bill. 

Segregating crew quarters is just over thinking it too much.

[Cunjo Carl]

2 minutes ago, qromodynmc said:

I dont even check who flies my plane.

Best not to get too attached?

[Hodo]

I have a rotation cycle for pilots and crews.  I start at the top of the pilot list and work down.

[pasukaru76]

There should be an orange suit probe core. 

[qromodynmc]

3 minutes ago, Cunjo Carl said:

Best not to get too attached?

They are all same in my eyes, i just care their job (eng. Or pilot) when i play career.

[Ozymandias_the_Goat]

4 minutes ago, Cunjo Carl said:

 You realize they all have the same last name . Cheers!

Assuming they follow western Martial traditions (the female and/or offspring adopting the surname of the male parent, the could have all just married into the same family name. If the Kerman Family continuously had male offspring that married, their spouses would continuously adopt the Keman name. Other families would eventually produce only female offspring that married Kerman husbands. If the Kerbals have an adequately small population and, given enough time, the Kerman family would be the only remaining family on Kerbin.

Alternate theory: The Kermans are unnaturally brave, and only Kerman Children are brave enough to be Kerbonauts.

[helaeon]

I've had female kerbals since Shaw gave us the ability to do so by having different textures on the heads.
The reason I did that... I wanted my crews to be  more interesting. Yes I could have a whole bunch of male heads (and I do), but now having a bunch of female heads too allows for even further degrees of freedom. Makes the game more interesting to me.
To me Kerbals are everything that humanity could be or could have been, but we refuse to. They don't need to play these over-thinking gender and classes and such games. They go to space instead.

[r4pt0r]

I disagree with you on multiple points, but cannot voice my opinion for fear of censorship for the mods. This thread was a bad idea.

[Ozymandias_the_Goat]

1 minute ago, helaeon said:

I've had female kerbals since Shaw gave us the ability to do so by having different textures on the heads.
The reason I did that... I wanted my crews to be  more interesting. Yes I could have a whole bunch of male heads (and I do), but now having a bunch of female heads too allows for even further degrees of freedom. Makes the game more interesting to me.
To me Kerbals are everything that humanity could be or could have been, but we refuse to. They don't need to play these over-thinking gender and classes and such games. They go to space instead.

remarkabley poetic

Edited May 30, 2016 by LetsGoToMars!

[FungusForge]

18 minutes ago, qromodynmc said:

I dont even check who flies my plane.

I only make sure I don't have a scientist or engineer in the cockpit.

 

When hiring however, I like to keep the mix about 50/50.

Edited May 30, 2016 by FungusForge

[Doug8421]

I don't even take it into consideration, just pick whichever pilot/engineer/scientist is next up in the rotation. 

[pandaman]

For me, the addition of female kerbals was a welcome change.

In practical game play terms it makes absolutely no difference.  But from a public perception angle it's a very important step.

[Just Jim]

As a player, I tend to also look at my Kerbals as children, or minions.... minions are probably more accurate, and those are pretty much gender neutral.

But as a fan-fiction writer, I've had to think about the male/female issue a lot, and I know several of the other writers have as well.  
There seem to be different theories, but I think the general unspoken rule amongst most of us is to not to delve too deep into the reproductive end of things.  It just opens too many cans of worms to have to try and explain, especially on a family friendly forum.
But other than that, I'm super glad we have them, because it lets me explore romances, which I'm finding I like to write, much to my own surprise.  

The biggest thing, for me, is I'm a big fan of astronauts like Valentina Teraskova and Samantha Cristoforetti (I hope I spelled them right) so it makes total sense to have female Kerbals in the game, and my story, as my primary, and not back-up, pilots.

Edited May 30, 2016 by Just Jim

[Van Disaster]

I see them as indestructable aliens - I'm wondering when we're going to get the other genders. I try not to anthropomorphise if I can help it.

It's good overall for the game though if it gives children of all genders something to relate to.

[ruiluth]

23 minutes ago, helaeon said:

To me Kerbals are everything that humanity could be or could have been, but we refuse to. They don't need to play these over-thinking gender and classes and such games. They go to space instead.

I'd heard this before (in reference to nuclear tech) but I think I just realized what it means. This makes a lot more sense than anything else, I like it.

24 minutes ago, LetsGoToMars! said:

Assuming they follow western Martial traditions (the female and/or offspring adopting the surname of the male parent, the could have all just married into the same family name. If the Kerman Family continuously had male offspring that married, their spouses would continuously adopt the Keman name. Other families would eventually produce only female offspring that married Kerman husbands. If the Kerbals have an adequately small population and, given enough time, the Kerman family would be the only remaining family on Kerbin.

Alternate theory: The Kermans are unnaturally brave, and only Kerman Children are brave enough to be Kerbonauts.

I also like the theory that they are all siblings. That's a nice compromise between having asexual kerbals and a fully humanized society.

This gives me an idea for a backstory... I'm glad I posted this thread. This clears things up a lot in my mind.

[MircoMars]

I also would have been fine with Kerbals being androgynous. but since we have almost no concept of instantaneously recognizable androgynous humanoid appearance and naming conventions, I guess modelling and naming female Kerbals was just the easier thing to do.

and of course the suggestion that only male green beings are allowed to ride giant explosions in small metal cans would be just wrong. I don't know if adding Valentina et al. convinced more girls and women to play the game. could be worth a survey...

[Ozymandias_the_Goat]

they don't necessarily have to be all siblings. That would mean they all share the same parents. If they all share the Kerman surname, that would mean that they are cousins to some degree.

[Tourist]

I don't see the things you've raised as being a problem because while there a similarities between Kerbal and human society, they are not the same.

In my head canon Kerbal society has always been inherently egalitarian. This because they have a insatiable drive for exploration. This drive means they don't have time for nonsense, like assuming somebody can't do a job because they are 'just a girl,' or the wrong shade of green.

They are not going to turn anybody away if they are good at what they do. Correspondingly they do not need things like quotas, because there an no inherent assumptions about what a female Kerbal can and can't do compared to male colleagues that is keep female Kerbals out. Therefore quotas are not needed to undermine these assumptions. 

This means that the fact you have 3 male Kerbals, and 1 female Kerbal as the creme of the crop is just really a refection of those four being the best at what they do.  Nobody in Kerbal society is concerned that some administrator somewhere is saying to qualified female Kerbalnaut applicants "Sorry toots, this is a mans job, we may be able to find you a place in the typing pool."

As for separate quarters, toileting facilities etc. In a society where everybody is treated equally and there is no history of the domination and entitlement of one gender over another, you'd find there would likely be little need for such things.   

Edited May 30, 2016 by Tourist

[Spartwo]

It seemed like a waste of resources and still does but it's here and I don't really care whether the pilot is female.

[Kerbin vonKerbal]

You could just not overthink it cause, ya know, it's a video game and all.

[autumnalequinox]

On 5/30/2016 at 7:17 PM, FungusForge said:

I only make sure I don't have a scientist or engineer in the cockpit.

 

When hiring however, I like to keep the mix about 50/50.

Same here.  And each career game my "legendary Kerbals" have different roles.  Jeb is Alan Shepard, the first into space and the crazy test pilot.  Val is cool under pressure and flies the first long, complex missions.  I don't see her as a backup and I like to switch it up sometimes.