[Minimum KSP version - 1.11] Kerbal Attachment System (KAS) v1.12

[Loren Pechtel]

10 hours ago, IgorZ said:

Existing KAS design is not "material". Those pipes come from nowhere when you link two connector ports. This is going to change in KAS 1.0.

That did it!  Now I have one vessel on Minmus consisting of the engineer's home and the skycrane.  Now to launch the rest of it.

It's just the picture doesn't look remotely like something you would use to link two ships.

[goldenpsp]

5 minutes ago, Loren Pechtel said:

That did it!  Now I have one vessel on Minmus consisting of the engineer's home and the skycrane.  Now to launch the rest of it.

It's just the picture doesn't look remotely like something you would use to link two ships.

Depends.  I always thought it looked like something you would attach a hose to.

[subyng]

Is it possible to do the following?

I need to construct part of my ship in orbit. I have a piece stored in a KIS storage container, which I take out on an EVA and attach it to where I need it to go. The part is too large for a Kerbal to carry on his own, and the storage container is too far from where the part needs to go for me to drag it and attach it in one go. Therefore I need to kind of "carry" the part by picking it up, dropping it, moving it, picking it up agian, etc. The problem is, due to physics weirdness, when I drop the part it will get flung out into space. So I had the idea of using a winch and connecting the part to the winch and just reeling it in. But I'd need to do this before taking out the part of the storage container. 

[brusura]

23 minutes ago, subyng said:

Is it possible to do the following?

I need to construct part of my ship in orbit. I have a piece stored in a KIS storage container, which I take out on an EVA and attach it to where I need it to go. The part is too large for a Kerbal to carry on his own, and the storage container is too far from where the part needs to go for me to drag it and attach it in one go. Therefore I need to kind of "carry" the part by picking it up, dropping it, moving it, picking it up agian, etc. The problem is, due to physics weirdness, when I drop the part it will get flung out into space. So I had the idea of using a winch and connecting the part to the winch and just reeling it in. But I'd need to do this before taking out the part of the storage container. 

I gave up building in orbit.. what you can do is surface attach the part ( if it surface attachable ) along the way as you move.

I never tried your approach maybe you could attach the whole kis container to the winch and move the container where you need

[brusura]

@IgorZ After using an harpon to try stabilize my base from drifting on the mun I sometime get this crash "R6025 pure virtual function call" when loading the base, I can just hear the sound of the winches engage as I load and then crash:

I have uploaded save logs and screenshot

https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B4kd548FeSEpSFg4eFVIMzlsSDQ/view?usp=sharing

[IgorZ]

20 hours ago, subyng said:

So I had the idea of using a winch and connecting the part to the winch and just reeling it in. But I'd need to do this before taking out the part of the storage container. 

Winch cannot be attached to items in inventory. Parts in the container are not physical objects. What you can do is simply increasing distance limit in the settings file. Or, if you prefer a realistic approach, use IR mod to construct a robotic arm. Though, you'll have to bring it on orbit fully assembled since KIS cannot attach/detach IR parts.

2 hours ago, brusura said:

@IgorZ After using an harpon to try stabilize my base from drifting on the mun I sometime get this crash "R6025 pure virtual function call" when loading the base, I can just hear the sound of the winches engage as I load and then crash:

Mods are written in C#, and this code cannot trigger such errors. It's something broken inside Unity or KSP. Last useful message I see in the log is:

Look rotation viewing vector is zero

After that a lot of different stuff (not only KAS parts) start crashing. Try reporting it to the KSP core forum. Though, before that I'd suggest to try making this issue 100% reproducible. It looks to me there is a rare edge case either in Unity or in KSP which is not handled by the game.

[LatiMacciato]

unsure if its already known, but defenetly not normal or wanted, also not intended .. well i delinked 2 conn ports and my station breaks apart

it seems somehow 1 of the conn ports had become the root part of the ship without beeing an actual dock or something

(yes i have made a backup of my savegame right before i delink them)

is there anything i can do to prevent/fix this situation (and my station) here?

 

[hab136]

6 hours ago, LatiMacciato said:

unsure if its already known, but defenetly not normal or wanted, also not intended .. well i delinked 2 conn ports and my station breaks apart

it seems somehow 1 of the conn ports had become the root part of the ship without beeing an actual dock or something

(yes i have made a backup of my savegame right before i delink them)

is there anything i can do to prevent/fix this situation (and my station) here?

 

Just detach ("H") the part that the connector port is attached to, and the connector port will fall off.  Whatever part the connector port was attached to will become the new root part.

I often have the connector port become the new root part.  It's really annoying.  IgorZ made a "re-root" tool available to fix things like this, but be warned it's alpha

[LatiMacciato]

On 5.8.2016 at 4:43 PM, hab136 said:

Just detach ("H") the part that the connector port is attached to, and the connector port will fall off.  Whatever part the connector port was attached to will become the new root part.

I often have the connector port become the new root part.  It's really annoying.  IgorZ made a "re-root" tool available to fix things like this, but be warned it's alpha

if i just detach the station falls apart like you see in my screens, imma try the reroot-enabled dll file tho imma keeping the current dll as backup file, so i can use that for rerooting in my special case, then switch back after unlinking didnt break my station

EDIT:

after trying out that dll i found it was kinda easier to get some kerbal help fixing that one (just counts for my situation cuz i also didnt had much time for some proper testing tho, sorry .. Ubuntu 16.04 upgrade came inbetween etc)

Edited August 7, 2016 by LatiMacciato

[IgorZ]

A teaser of KAS 1.0. Telescopic tube link.

http://imgur.com/NZ8JDtu

Edited August 17, 2016 by IgorZ

[brusura]

48 minutes ago, IgorZ said:

A teaser of KAS 1.0. Telescopic tube link.

http://imgur.com/NZ8JDtu

Gimme it to me  , look like old pipe but they are not linked with a rigid joint right?

Edited August 17, 2016 by brusura

[IgorZ]

15 minutes ago, brusura said:

Gimme it to me  , look like old pipe but they are not linked as a rigid joint right?

Right. Old joints have not mass or collider. In KAS 1.0 every single meter of link pipe has mass, volume and collider. For now it's a prototype only. I'm still trying different approaches. For now I have in mind the following link types:

1. Fixed telescopic joint. In nutshell, it's a stock tiny attach node joint (old KAS creates fixed joint which is not the same!). It shouldn't destroy your base on load due to some (limited) flexibility.
2. Free telescopic joint. It has both connections to the parts totally free (i.e. in terms of PhysX engine it's "sphere joint", a.k.a. "hinge joint"). Allows parts moving relative to each other.
3. Hydraulic cylinder joint. An active joint that allows interactive changing of extension/retraction.
4. Flexible link (a rubber pipe). Doesn't give any structural strength which makes it the best when connecting long bases. Will require KIS.

It's not likely this stuff will be released soon but I'm working

Edited August 17, 2016 by IgorZ

[kcs123]

2 hours ago, IgorZ said:

Flexible link (a rubber pipe). Doesn't give any structural strength which makes it the best when connecting long bases. Will require KIS.

Considering all of game engine limitations, I think that is the best option. If someone want to improve structural strength, there is other options available. Active struts from IR mod, for example. Even stock struts can do a job if can be attached with KIS.

[Kerbos]

@IgorZ finally manage to reproduce the inventory loss on kerbals (it was kinda long time ago), so first you gotta put some crap inside a kerbal, send it to the launch pad (flight mode), it won't matter if the kerbal is eva or not, press F5, go to the main menu and delete the persistent file and rename (or copy-rename) the quicksave as persistent.sfs, now resume the saved game and it should load on the launchpad, but for some reason KIS won't be available, heading to the space center and reentering on flight mode fix it again but the inventory will be empty.

I guess I was the only one with this issue coz I'm the only arsehat that doesn't like to go back in time even a few seconds ago, so every time my pc crashed I would replace the persistent and lose stuffs on my kerbals.

Cheers!

[Angelo Kerman]

@IgorZ Loving the new direction for the KAS pipes. As a feature request, would it be possible for a single part to have multiple pipe connections? One example of that is Pathfinder's Gaslight, which serves as a 4-way junction. Right now, when you reload the game, for some reason you'll get multiple pipes drawn from the pipe endpoint transforms if the part has multiple KASModuleStrut modules, and they're all hooked up. I can't call this a bug because I'm using KAS in a way that it wasn't designed (namely, having multiple KASModuleStrut part modules in the part). I could just have multiple KAS pipe connectors, but having the ability to have multiple KASModuleStrut modules in one part helps with base construction because it cuts down on part count.

Thanks again for keeping KIS/KAS going.

[Montieth]

14 hours ago, IgorZ said:

A teaser of KAS 1.0. Telescopic tube link.

http://imgur.com/NZ8JDtu

OOh, so we can do this now!
 

 

[IgorZ]

9 hours ago, Kerbos said:

@IgorZ finally manage to reproduce the inventory loss on kerbals (it was kinda long time ago), so first you gotta put some crap inside a kerbal, send it to the launch pad (flight mode), it won't matter if the kerbal is eva or not, press F5, go to the main menu and delete the persistent file and rename (or copy-rename) the quicksave as persistent.sfs, now resume the saved game and it should load on the launchpad, but for some reason KIS won't be available, heading to the space center and reentering on flight mode fix it again but the inventory will be empty.

I guess I was the only one with this issue coz I'm the only arsehat that doesn't like to go back in time even a few seconds ago, so every time my pc crashed I would replace the persistent and lose stuffs on my kerbals.

Cheers!

Turning quicksaves into persistent is kind of going against the KSP design. If you leave game normally then on game load you always get into KSC regardless to what scene was active on the exit. Why not loading quicksave without renaming?

7 hours ago, Angel-125 said:

@IgorZ Loving the new direction for the KAS pipes. As a feature request, would it be possible for a single part to have multiple pipe connections? One example of that is Pathfinder's Gaslight, which serves as a 4-way junction. Right now, when you reload the game, for some reason you'll get multiple pipes drawn from the pipe endpoint transforms if the part has multiple KASModuleStrut modules, and they're all hooked up. I can't call this a bug because I'm using KAS in a way that it wasn't designed (namely, having multiple KASModuleStrut part modules in the part). I could just have multiple KAS pipe connectors, but having the ability to have multiple KASModuleStrut modules in one part helps with base construction because it cuts down on part count.

Thanks again for keeping KIS/KAS going.

KAS as for now is not designed for multiple struct modules. In general, the behavior is undetermined if you add multiple strut modules. In new KAS I played with multiple connectors on a single part and figured out the code becomes too complex. So, for now there will be one part one connection. Though, I don't say "no" since the final solution will depend on the final implementation.

[Nightside]

20 hours ago, IgorZ said:

Right. Old joints have not mass or collider. In KAS 1.0 every single meter of link pipe has mass, volume and collider. For now it's a prototype only. I'm still trying different approaches. For now I have in mind the following link types:

1. Fixed telescopic joint. In nutshell, it's a stock tiny attach node joint (old KAS creates fixed joint which is not the same!). It shouldn't destroy your base on load due to some (limited) flexibility.
2. Free telescopic joint. It has both connections to the parts totally free (i.e. in terms of PhysX engine it's "sphere joint", a.k.a. "hinge joint"). Allows parts moving relative to each other.
3. Hydraulic cylinder joint. An active joint that allows interactive changing of extension/retraction.
4. Flexible link (a rubber pipe). Doesn't give any structural strength which makes it the best when connecting long bases. Will require KIS.

It's not likely this stuff will be released soon but I'm working

These sound like a great solution for bouncy bases. 

#4 and 2 sound promising. I would love a totally flexible inflatable passageway, visually similar to those in @Angel-125's Pathfinder mod.  

Thanks for your work!

[IgorZ]

I have a bit awkward question for native English speakers. How would you call the thing that connects two parts in KAS: pipe or tube? And why?

[LatiMacciato]

as far my english goes (not native here but trying) .. id say pipe (example pipe line, for oil and other recource transfers) .. a tube .. well .. is a tube (bringing ppl from a to b)

[Merkov]

@IgorZ, I would agree with @LatiMacciato. Pipe is probably the better choice, if only because it can be used fairly interchangeably with any other word that has a similar meaning. When I hear tube, I tend to think of something plastic, temporary, possibly improvised. A pipe could be something like that, or it could be different.

Another thing to think about is that there are lots of words that are synonymous with "pipe", but pipe is probably the most generic of them:

Fuel flows from a car's gas tank to its engine through fuel lines.

You can water your garden with water from your house with a water hose.

Water flows under the streets of cities in water mains.

A person in hospital who can't eat may be fed by a feeding tube.

The thing is, you could replace any of the italicized words with "pipe" and you would get your point across. If you mix the italicized words around in those sentences, they don't make much sense. Tube is probably better than all of the other ones I mentioned, but I think pipe is the best. Pipes can be metal, plastic, or even rubberized. They can be rigid or flexible.

Hope this helps!

[LatiMacciato]

..for me as gamer ..well even super mario doesnt jump into tubes .. does he?

[Kerbos]

3 hours ago, IgorZ said:

Turning quicksaves into persistent is kind of going against the KSP design. If you leave game normally then on game load you always get into KSC regardless to what scene was active on the exit. Why not loading quicksave without renaming?

Also this, the slightest rotation on space with 2 ships connected turns violent really fast, this could solve it.

23 hours ago, IgorZ said:

• Flexible link (a rubber pipe). Doesn't give any structural strength which makes it the best when connecting long bases. Will require KIS.

 

Edited August 18, 2016 by Kerbos

[IgorZ]

9 hours ago, Merkov said:

@IgorZ, I would agree with @LatiMacciato. Pipe is probably the better choice, if only because it can be used fairly interchangeably with any other word that has a similar meaning. When I hear tube, I tend to think of something plastic, temporary, possibly improvised. A pipe could be something like that, or it could be different.

Another thing to think about is that there are lots of words that are synonymous with "pipe", but pipe is probably the most generic of them:

Fuel flows from a car's gas tank to its engine through fuel lines.

You can water your garden with water from your house with a water hose.

Water flows under the streets of cities in water mains.

A person in hospital who can't eat may be fed by a feeding tube.

The thing is, you could replace any of the italicized words with "pipe" and you would get your point across. If you mix the italicized words around in those sentences, they don't make much sense. Tube is probably better than all of the other ones I mentioned, but I think pipe is the best. Pipes can be metal, plastic, or even rubberized. They can be rigid or flexible.

Hope this helps!

Thanks! This makes sense. So, KAS will have pipes and not tubes

8 hours ago, Kerbos said:

Also this, the slightest rotation on space with 2 ships connected turns violent really fast, this could solve it.

I've actually figured out the problem in this scenario. KIS needs to do some initialization on game load (e.g. adding inventory to kerbal prefab), and it's done when main space center scene is loaded. Normally game doesn't allow bypassing this scene, but since you've managed to do it you got troubles

[Kerbos]

@IgorZ thank you so much for clarifying this for me, now I got things to think of, alone, in a melancholic mood, maybe with a cup of something while watching a fireplace in the darkness, things like "when is humanity going to see the world as it is, without fictional flags or frontiers but like the single spec of dust in this black bottomless ocean we need to share?" or "why the bloody hell wouldn't occur to me to reload the quicksave instead of renaming it?".

A common proverb says "truth is in the eye of the beholder", well I need a goddamn ophthalmologist fairy, not the first time my logic is severely illogical.

Cheers!