Are wheels fixed?

[Majorjim!]

4 hours ago, KerikBalm said:

I have yet to find anyone provide an actual statement from the devs that they are "broken" ... I remember Alshain claiming that and when asked to provide a source, his link didn't support the claim. In need of tweaking and some balancing = yes. Major mechanics are broken? no, not at all.

I fail to see how wheels not being able to pass through other solid parts of the same craft is a glitch.

Also, no, before it was not me setting up my rover docking "incorrectly" unless you mean that the only "correct" way to do it is to have two docking connections simultaneously... which is a major PITA

I do not miss this behavior one bit:

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Only way to make it work was if I got the 2nd connection to connect.. .designing rovers with a docking port on top was a PITA,, getting them to drive up and get both to connect at once... pita, having to drop rovers out of the belly... PITA.

With 1 docking port, there was no way around this.. .you drive up, you dock, the wheels stop supporting the craft and it falls through the floor... that is broken...

having stuff collide with the wheels instead of passing harmlessly through it is not broken... the wheel strength could be tweaked, but the overall mechanics are just fine

 

 

 

 

 

I submitted the bug report during the unity 5 pre release. I have spoken in depth with @Arsonide about this. The wheels are in some regard, broken. The fact they interact with the same craft they are attached to is unintentional behaviour. It WILL be gone in the next update as it causes wheels to break when docking to a larger craft and when forces are applied to the parent craft. Blocking will be gone too as that was part of the issue with wheels interacting with the parts they are attached to. 

Edited August 29, 2016 by Majorjim!

[foamyesque]

I've got a basic chassis I use for ruggedized rover wheels that fits in a Mk3 cargo bay and can cart around 4 Kerbs, but I don't think it'll fit in a 2.5m. Too tall.

27 minutes ago, Majorjim! said:

I submitted the bug report during the unity 5 pre release. I have spoken in depth with @Arsonide about this. The wheels are in some regard, broken. The fact they interact with the same craft they are attached to is unintentional behaviour. It WILL be gone in the next update as it causes wheels to break when docking to a larger craft and when forces are applied to the parent craft. Blocking will be gone too as that was part of the issue with wheels interacting with the parts they are attached to. 

 

That's gonna break anybody who's trying to use the cargo ramp more than once.That's kinda dumb.

[klgraham1013]

22 hours ago, KerikBalm said:

I have yet to find anyone provide an actual statement from the devs that they are "broken"...

 

The devs saying they replaced the 1.1 wheel code wasn't enough of a statement for you?

Edited August 30, 2016 by klgraham1013

[Sharpy]

2 hours ago, foamyesque said:

That's gonna break anybody who's trying to use the cargo ramp more than once.That's kinda dumb.

I don't think so. The rover will be subject to wobbling during transport, but that was always the case, and is mitigated by smart port placement. The moment you undock it, it becomes a separate vessel and starts interacting with the carrier (possibly jumping out of the floor if it was partially stuck). Then you can use the ramp normally. The moment you re-dock, floor becomes transparent to the wheels - buy you're already firmly docked!

[Red Iron Crown]

2 hours ago, foamyesque said:

That's gonna break anybody who's trying to use the cargo ramp more than once.That's kinda dumb.

I think the autostrut-to-heaviest-part thing might compensate for it, if the collisions with parent don't work anymore.

[Majorjim!]

1 hour ago, Red Iron Crown said:

I think the autostrut-to-heaviest-part thing might compensate for it, if the collisions with parent don't work anymore.

 

1 hour ago, Sharpy said:

I don't think so. The rover will be subject to wobbling during transport, but that was always the case, and is mitigated by smart port placement. The moment you undock it, it becomes a separate vessel and starts interacting with the carrier (possibly jumping out of the floor if it was partially stuck). Then you can use the ramp normally. The moment you re-dock, floor becomes transparent to the wheels - buy you're already firmly docked!

This is the correct way to do things.

[foamyesque]

1 hour ago, Sharpy said:

I don't think so. The rover will be subject to wobbling during transport, but that was always the case, and is mitigated by smart port placement. The moment you undock it, it becomes a separate vessel and starts interacting with the carrier (possibly jumping out of the floor if it was partially stuck). Then you can use the ramp normally. The moment you re-dock, floor becomes transparent to the wheels - buy you're already firmly docked!

 

Docking ports wobble, man. Especially under, oh, let's say, Eve gravity.

[KerikBalm]

3 hours ago, Sharpy said:

I don't think so. The rover will be subject to wobbling during transport, but that was always the case, and is mitigated by smart port placement. The moment you undock it, it becomes a separate vessel and starts interacting with the carrier (possibly jumping out of the floor if it was partially stuck). Then you can use the ramp normally. The moment you re-dock, floor becomes transparent to the wheels - buy you're already firmly docked!

This only works for small rovers where the docking connection is stiff enough. Normally, once on the ground on a body with significant gravity, the craft wont "[jump] out of the floor if it was partially stuck" but rather jump around as parts in the smae place fly off at high velocity, explosions ensue.

There's the work around of a top mounted docking port, and a seperate system to raise the rover up to the docking port, but that is cumbersome and also only works for small and light rovers. Bigger ones for you to kneel the whole carrier craft to get the connection.

I think the autostrut should make it work... but if they remove autostrut and wheel interactions, drive on/drive off rovers will be dead again.

At the moment, drive on/off rovers are very viable now, for the first time in KSP, so0 to me thats been a massive improvement. My planes go down the runway straight, my rovers drive fine (well, sometimes they jitter really bad for no apparent reason and require a re-design, I'll give you that).

I'm quite happy overall with the wheel changes, as I quite enjoy the mobile bases that it has enabled me to build (I was working on making such bases in 1.05, but they required two docking ports, very well aligned, and deployment out of the bottom of the craft which limited payload size).

[Majorjim!]

3 minutes ago, KerikBalm said:

if they remove autostrut and wheel interactions, drive on/drive off rovers will be dead again.

Auto strut will remain but wheel/same craft interactions will be gone. And they need to be gone. As I have stated, it is unwanted, unintended behaviour. 

[AlamoVampire]

Im hoping they will be less like ice skates in 1.2. Its currently taxing on my patience to try to make a base, move parts and try to avoid hitting my base like im stuck on ice.

[Corona688]

10 hours ago, Gordon Fecyk said:

Is there a short-term hack to work around the wheel blocking?

Back in 1.0.5 I managed to use larger wheels to make a somewhat more rugged rover with the RoveMate that still fit in the 2.5 m service bay. That worked in 1.1 pre-release and even went faster than the original, but not in 1.1.3.

Yes, I'm breaking the rules by clipping the suspension into the probe body, but if someone were to actually engineer this they'd cut openings into the casing to fit the suspension. The RoveMate has no better logic than the OKTO and no reaction wheels, so it kind-of makes sense that there'd be an OKTO motherboard and a lot of empty space in that package.

My understanding is wheel blocking won't happen in 1.2. Just looking for a short term hack until then.

Do you want the craft file for my Canned Lander?  I splayed the wheels so it doesn't block.  6 tiny rover wheels.

[Majorjim!]

5 hours ago, AlamoVampire said:

Im hoping they will be less like ice skates in 1.2. Its currently taxing on my patience to try to make a base, move parts and try to avoid hitting my base like im stuck on ice.

Try upping the grip settings to maximum. That seems to stop the sliding when turning.

[Arsonide]

On 8/29/2016 at 11:51 AM, klgraham1013 said:

The devs saying they replaced the 1.1 wheel code wasn't enough of a statement for you?

What is the source for this statement? We have not replaced the 1.1 wheel code - we just upgraded VPP to the latest version. In addition to that, I've spent a good deal of time hunting down some issues that were still present after the upgrade. EVA kerbals no longer interact with wheel colliders. As of 1.1.3 they didn't interact with suspension raycasts, but unfortunately they could still interact with the colliders attached to those raycasts. Wheel blocking no longer exists. There are also a few fixes that will be the devnotes tomorrow, such as the slow and steady uphill drifting of wheeled and/or legged craft, which we have found and fixed.

There are a great number of fixes in there, but the base code has not been replaced.

[AlamoVampire]

19 hours ago, Majorjim! said:

Try upping the grip settings to maximum. That seems to stop the sliding when turning.

not to sound silly, but, i can do that? <hoping its not a cfg thing>

[SpacedCowboy]

1 hour ago, Arsonide said:

What is the source for this statement? We have not replaced the 1.1 wheel code - we just upgraded VPP to the latest version. In addition to that, I've spent a good deal of time hunting down some issues that were still present after the upgrade. EVA kerbals no longer interact with wheel colliders. As of 1.1.3 they didn't interact with suspension raycasts, but unfortunately they could still interact with the colliders attached to those raycasts. Wheel blocking no longer exists. There are also a few fixes that will be the devnotes tomorrow, such as the slow and steady uphill drifting of wheeled and/or legged craft, which we have found and fixed.

There are a great number of fixes in there, but the base code has not been replaced.

No more driftin' away! Excellent news. Can't wait!

And if Bob stubs his toe on lander leg it won't explode ?! Wonderful!

[linuxgurugamer]

On 8/28/2016 at 3:41 PM, Xyphos said:

that's because plane wheels have a higher impact tolerance. my mod makes the rover wheels 3 times tougher to bring them up to scale with the plane wheels.

Could you put a description in the mod on spacedock.infi?  I saw it earlier, Han no idea what it was for

[fourfa]

1 hour ago, AlamoVampire said:

not to sound silly, but, i can do that? <hoping its not a cfg thing>

Right click in VAB/SPH -> select Friction Control box to Manual -> increase value from default 1 to 5.

Edited August 31, 2016 by fourfa

[Sharpy]

You'll get the wheel blocked if you clip the suspension - only a little bit of its structural plate can be clipped. OTOH you can clip a decent part of the tire's side facing away.

This one fits in MK2 service bay and works in 1.1.3.

(credit: Kepicness, link to post; he explains about every pixel of "non-blocking" space was used up, this is about as far as wheel can be clipped.)

[foamyesque]

9 hours ago, Arsonide said:

There are also a few fixes that will be the devnotes tomorrow, such as the slow and steady uphill drifting of wheeled and/or legged craft, which we have found and fixed.

 

That's great news, because that's been driving me batty.