Being The Dreaded "Idea Guy"

[ZooNamedGames]

1 minute ago, Camacha said:

Make a game that does run on a 1,5 GHz computer. There were - and are - a lot of fun games that do not require a lot of processing power. In fact, there are plenty of hugely computationally intensive games that are no fun to play at all. Stop coming up with problems and start coming up with solutions. Just go do it. You have everything you need to start right now.

Did you read the linked post too? People are giving you good advice here, it would help you to read everything (not just my posts) carefully and with attention.

Issue is I don't want to make flash games! I want to make something along the lines of Firewatch, or @Mulbin's new Mercury simulator game. Sure at a time, 1.5Ghz would've ran the world, but now that's getting close to the power of a TI-36 calculator.

Inspiration is grand. Money is grander. I'm not asking for some; it's just a fact of reality.

[Camacha]

19 minutes ago, ZooNamedGames said:

Issue is I don't want to make flash games! I want to make something along the lines of Firewatch, or @Mulbin's new Mercury simulator game. Sure at a time, 1.5Ghz would've ran the world, but now that's getting close to the power of a TI-36 calculator.

Inspiration is grand. Money is grander. I'm not asking for some; it's just a fact of reality.

I will repeat it over and over: you do not need a hugely powerful computer to do that. Halo ran on computers with a fraction of the speed of yours. Quake 3 too. In fact, look at all the games made for the Xbox, the Xbox 360, the Playstation 3 and any console before that. You can match and even surpass any of the visuals in those games with your 'calculator'. That is plenty to make hugely interesting and visually appealing games. In fact, you could actually make a Mercury Simulator of the same quality on your hardware. You can do exactly what you are asking for. However, it is important to remember you do not need visuals to make a great game. Just look at Minecraft and the billions Notch made out of a game that looks and runs bad by any modern standard. He just went to work on a concept he liked, had no idea what he was doing, produced a technically terrible game and ended up being a multi-billionaire.

Again, you need to start coming up with solutions, rather than problems. It is a basic skill that will get you far in life. Rather than asking what you cannot do, you should rejoice at what you can do. The world is your oyster and all you see is the grubby outside of a dirty shell.

Besides, learning to make games on a computer that is not the very fastest will learn you another thing: optimization. Making a game that only runs on the fastest hardware is useless, because most people will not be able to play it. Make a game that runs on so-so hardware (like yours) and you have a huge audience.

Edited September 5, 2016 by Camacha

[ZooNamedGames]

14 minutes ago, Camacha said:

I will repeat it over and over: you do not need a hugely powerful computer to do that. Halo ran on computers with a fraction of the speed of yours. Quake 3 too. In fact, look at all the games made for the Xbox, the Xbox 360, the Playstation 3 and any console before that. You can match and even surpass any of the visuals in those games with your 'calculator'. That is plenty to make hugely interesting and visually appealing games. In fact, you could actually make a Mercury Simulator of the same quality on your hardware. You can do exactly what you are asking for. However, it is important to remember you do not need visuals to make a great game. Just look at Minecraft and the billions Notch made out of a game that looks and runs bad by any modern standard. He just went to work on a concept he liked, had no idea what he was doing, produced a technically terrible game and ended up being a multi-billionaire.

Again, you need to start coming up with solutions, rather than problems. It is a basic skill that will get you far in life. Rather than asking what you cannot do, you should rejoice at what you can do. The world is your oyster and all you see is the grubby outside of a dirty shell.

Besides, learning to make games on a computer that is not the very fastest will learn you another thing: optimization. Making a game that only runs on the fastest hardware is useless, because most people will not be able to play it. Make a game that runs on so-so hardware (like yours) and you have a huge audience.

Minecraft ended up being part of a pixelated art style that is now "in". As to the mechanics of Minecraft, I'll be hard pressed to make anything even close to be as interesting. 97% of my ideas are ones that people will say "eh" and never look at game (if they even get close to a download button). Others have hit nail on the head by saying most ideas only the person with the idea are interested in, others either won't be interested or care about it. So again; to what benefit is the effort? If I make a diamond (to me) and no one cares to look, then what's the point of making it?

Issue is, not all solutions work. Many fail far too short to justify the effort. But I get the point.

Seems I need to upgrade. I can't even run 2D games without getting lag.

[Snark]

46 minutes ago, ZooNamedGames said:

Issue is if I can't run a game that I'm making on my 1.5Ghz computer then why should I be making one? Guess now I'm starting to realize my realistic limitations.

What kind of computer you have is irrelevant.  You need to develop computer programming skills if you want to write a game, and doing that takes time, and you can do *tons* of development work and skill-building with a 1.5GHz computer.  By the time you've hit the limits of that machine, you'll already have enough programming knowledge to be marketable.  You could spend the next two years doing nothing but programming your heart out, and still be zooming up the learning curve, and *still* not have exhausted what you can do on that computer.

Did you read this?

Because it has some important, relevant points to that.

[Camacha]

Just now, ZooNamedGames said:

Minecraft ended up being part of a pixelated art style that is now "in". As to the mechanics of Minecraft, I'll be hard pressed to make anything even close to be as interesting. 97% of my ideas are ones that people will say "eh" and never look at game (if they even get close to a download button). Others have hit nail on the head by saying most ideas only the person with the idea are interested in, others either won't be interested or care about it. So again; to what benefit is the effort? If I make a diamond (to me) and no one cares to look, then what's the point of making it?

I thought you were the idea guy?

You learn skills. Even if you produce nothing of value, you will have increased your skill level in a plethora of fields. Some of them will even be applicable to flying an aircraft and make you a better pilot. If anything, it will help you understand the world around you and make you a more complete human being.

Personally, I feel creating things is one of the most rewarding activities in the world. You cannot imagine what it means to create something from nothing until you have tried yourself. Even if what you create is not very good at all.

Just now, ZooNamedGames said:

Issue is, not all solutions work. Many fail far too short to justify the effort. But I get the point.

Then it never was the solution. What did we tell you before? You are going to fail many times before you succeed. Just like any other human being. Failure is what gets you where you want to go.

[ZooNamedGames]

2 minutes ago, Snark said:

What kind of computer you have is irrelevant.  You need to develop computer programming skills if you want to write a game, and doing that takes time, and you can do *tons* of development work and skill-building with a 1.5GHz computer.  By the time you've hit the limits of that machine, you'll already have enough programming knowledge to be marketable.  You could spend the next two years doing nothing but programming your heart out, and still be zooming up the learning curve, and *still* not have exhausted what you can do on that computer.

Did you read this?

Because it has some important, relevant points to that.

Maybe I can program but then again I'd do most of this little league stuff on a phone or something much lighter and usable than my 30lb desktop. Point being that the purpose of decades of effort is for making games and 1.5Ghz is rather weak. Especially by the time I get to be capable of writing a game programs would get heavier and more intensive making 1.5Ghz that much smaller.

I know I can skip the middle and the beginning but if the end isn't worth the journey then why begin?

[ZooNamedGames]

2 minutes ago, Camacha said:

I thought you were the idea guy?

You learn skills. Even if you produce nothing of value, you will have increased your skill level in a plethora of fields. Some of them will even be applicable to flying an aircraft and make you a better pilot. If anything, it will help you understand the world around you and make you a more complete human being.

Personally, I feel creating things is one of the most rewarding activities in the world. You cannot imagine what it means to create something from nothing until you have tried yourself. Even if what you create is not very good at all.

Then it never was the solution. What did we tell you before? You are going to fail many times before you succeed. Just like any other human being. Failure is what gets you where you want to go.

I am. Doesn't mean all ideas are good. There's a reason why 97% of my ideas won't make it into reality. It's because they're so uninteresting and borderline pointless to anyone outside of my head that they have absolutely no hope.

I want to be able to do something with my skills. Simply having a skill means nothing to me. It becomes more of a party trick, look what I can do, get a few laughs and that's it. If it was a skill I just happened to pick up then it would be worth the effort but something will be produce zilch is kind of useless.

It is satisfying, but you don't get to see the results of just code. What you can end up seeing ends up like being able to create an Windows error box with custom text. Woo...?

I'm willing to take failures but only if the hill I climb is worth the effort. Climbing a hill that many say is too difficult to reach the top and have everything to do with it result in an "eh", isn't worth the effort.

[Snark]

19 minutes ago, ZooNamedGames said:

Maybe I can program but then again I'd do most of this little league stuff on a phone or something much lighter and usable than my 30lb desktop.

Um, no.  You're not going to be writing software on your phone.  You write software in an IDE, which you run on a desktop, and you can run one on a 1.5GHz desktop just fine.  How is your 30lb desktop not usable?  Is the keyboard broken, or something?

19 minutes ago, ZooNamedGames said:

Point being that the purpose of decades of effort is for making games and 1.5Ghz is rather weak.

And you're not going to be writing the next Starcraft or Battlefield or Kerbal Space Program this year.  Or next year.  It takes years of sustained effort to get good at programming.  And you can learn just fine on that 1.5GHz machine.  By the time you've gotten enough programming skills to outgrow that 1.5GHz machine, you'll be able to afford something better.  So it's not a limiter.  At all.  Even slightly.  I'm telling you this as someone who spent years learning to program on machines considerably punier than what you already have.

I'm not sure how much more bluntly I can put this to you:

You. Do. Not. Need. A. Fancy. Machine. To. Learn. To. Program.

19 minutes ago, ZooNamedGames said:

Especially by the time I get to be capable of writing a game programs would get heavier and more intensive making 1.5Ghz that much smaller.

Right.  But that's years away, so instead of complaining about what you don't have and don't need right now, how about using what you already have to do what you actually need to do?  For at least a year or two?

19 minutes ago, ZooNamedGames said:

I know I can skip the middle and the beginning but if the end isn't worth the journey then why begin?

I'm sorry, you totally lost me there.

1. You can't skip the middle.
2. You can't skip the beginning.
3. The end is what you said you want, i.e. making a cool game, so therefore it's worth the journey, yes?

 

[ZooNamedGames]

14 minutes ago, Snark said:

Um, no.  You're not going to be writing software on your phone.  You write software in an IDE, which you run on a desktop, and you can run one on a 1.5GHz desktop just fine.  How is your 30lb desktop not usable?  Is the keyboard broken, or something?

And you're not going to be writing the next Starcraft or Battlefield or Kerbal Space Program this year.  Or next year.  It takes years of sustained effort to get good at programming.  And you can learn just fine on that 1.5GHz machine.  By the time you've gotten enough programming skills to outgrow that 1.5GHz machine, you'll be able to afford something better.  So it's not a limiter.  At all.  Even slightly.  I'm telling you this as someone who spent years learning to program on machines considerably punier than what you already have.

I'm not sure how much more bluntly I can put this to you:

You. Do. Not. Need. A. Fancy. Machine. To. Learn. To. Program.

Right.  But that's years away, so instead of complaining about what you don't have and don't need right now, how about using what you already have to do what you actually need to do?  For at least a year or two?

I'm sorry, you totally lost me there.

1. You can't skip the middle.
2. You can't skip the beginning.
3. The end is what you said you want, i.e. making a cool game, so therefore it's worth the journey, yes?

 

I'm certain someone out there has made something to code on the go. In this kind of world the idea that you can't code on something smaller than a laptop is insane. If nothing else- would a text file be too weak?

You could say the entire computer is broken and it's brand new.

I never said I needed one to learn. I said I need one bigger to game design which is the end goal.

Ok, maybe I have the hardware, but then you run into the issue of me learning. I am a terrible learner.

I already said 1-2. I said I want to make a game that to me is cool, but to others it may be mediocre, or more likely, far below average. That end, is not worth it.

You know what- let's not dirty up the forum anymore with my idiocy and just move this to an IRC chat @Camacha @Snark. Channel #IdeaGuys .

Edited September 5, 2016 by ZooNamedGames

[Camacha]

Just now, ZooNamedGames said:

I already said 1-2. I said I want to make a game that to me is cool, but to others it may be mediocre, or more likely, far below average. That end, is not worth it.

I understand you are going through some rough times and that is why you get cut some slack, but you really need to read what people are posting with some care. They mean well and give you good and solid advice. If you would have done that, you would have read that creating a mediocre game in the end is not a problem at all. You will still have learned skills that will serve you in life, in your piloting career and as a human being. That is very much worth it.

Since you have missed important bits of it, I would advise you to reread this thread carefully. Maybe even summarize the advice given in every post. I would love to see a summary of what you think people said.

[Red Iron Crown]

7 minutes ago, ZooNamedGames said:

I am a terrible learner.

This is the root of your problem. Not that you are a terrible learner, but that you believe you are and therefore it's not worth putting the effort in to learn. If you really are a bad learner then you'll just have to put in more effort; literally anyone can learn anything if they are persistent enough. Stop looking for reasons why you can't do something or why it's futile to try, and start finding ways to get things done despite whatever challenges are making it more difficult for you. The old adage "Don't let anyone tell you that you can't" is particularly true when it's you telling yourself you can't.

[Snark]

Just now, ZooNamedGames said:

I'm certain someone out there has made something to code on the go. In this kind of world the idea that you can't code on something smaller than a laptop is insane. If nothing else- would a text file be too weak?

Sure, I suppose you could code on a phone.  Just that I've never known anyone who would ever want to, ever.  And that includes people who are writing software for the phone.

Full-size keyboard is much faster to type on.  Full-size monitor is much easier to see lots of code at once.  I would imagine that trying to code on a phone would be like trying to read a novel through a pinhole.  But sure, if you want to make everything much harder than it needs to be, I suppose you could do that.

2 minutes ago, ZooNamedGames said:

I never said I needed one to learn.

Correct, you didn't.  I did.  I'm telling you:  You need to learn to program before you can do anything meaningful with anything.  And you can learn to program just fine on the computer you already have, using software you can get for free, which you can obtain in half a dozen mouse clicks without even getting out of your chair.  It doesn't get any sweeter than that.

4 minutes ago, ZooNamedGames said:

I said I need one bigger to game design which is the end goal.

Right!  And eventually you will.  But you're not going to get to the point where you actually need that bigger computer until a long time from now.  Because you have to learn a whole bunch of other stuff first.

6 minutes ago, ZooNamedGames said:

Ok, maybe I have the hardware,

There's no "maybe".  You do.

7 minutes ago, ZooNamedGames said:

but then you run into the issue of me learning. I am a terrible learner.

How so?  How many hours have you put into trying to learn to code?  I'm not trying to be glib here, I recognize that coding is not everybody's forte, and perhaps it simply isn't yours... but I haven't heard anything in this thread yet that says to me "here's a person who can't learn".  Perhaps the problem is that you simply haven't put in the necessary work?  I'm not asserting that that's the issue, merely raising it as a not unreasonable possibility.

9 minutes ago, ZooNamedGames said:

I said I want to make a game that to me is cool, but to others it may be mediocre, or more likely, far below average.  That end, is not worth it.

Well, first of all, you don't know that until you've done it, do you?  If you're just going to assume that anything you do is going to be crap, so you're not going to start anything, then what's your point?  If you refuse to try, and therefore haven't gotten anywhere, what exactly is it that you are unhappy about, given that you refuse to try?

Besides, that's missing the point.  The real point is this:

Spoiler

On 9/4/2016 at 10:31 AM, Snark said:

• You're focusing on "winning", i.e. on the end goal, to the exclusion of all else.  Realistically, that's going to keep you from getting to a place of awesomeness.  Unless you have superhumanly iron willpower (which I doubt, because almost nobody does-- I sure don't), you're not going to stay motivated to work on something for year after year, including the not-so-fun parts, unless you really like the process of getting there.

That last point is often overlooked, but is extremely important.

For example:  Suppose your field of interest were creative writing.  You're not going to become a great novelist without writing a whole lot of crap fist, and writing that stuff is going to be a long hard slog, and you won't stay motivated to do it unless you just really love the act of writing.  (The reason you won't stay motivated isn't because there's something wrong with you, personally.  It's simply because you're human.)  You'll only keep at it if you actually enjoy the writing itself (including the crap that will never see the light of day).  If the reason you're writing is that you want to write a big successful novel... well, you'll never stick with it long enough.  It's fine to have that as a long-range, gosh-wouldn't-it-be-nice-if kind of goal, but it can't be your reason.  Your reason for writing has to be "because I like to write."

To take another example, that may work a little better (since you've mentioned it here):  computer programming.  Yes, it would be really cool if you could produce an amazing game that's really successful, someday.  But you can't do that unless you develop computer programming expertise, first.  And computer programming isn't for the faint of heart-- I can say that with assurance, because I've been a professional software engineer for longer than you have been alive.

When you program, the large majority of the time you spend in front of the computer working with code is not going to be joy-of-creation stuff.  The overwhelming majority of the time-- and I mean lots and lots of time, here-- is going to be tedious, irritating, repetitive, tearing-your-hair-out, why-the-hell-doesn't-this-damn-thing-work debugging and analysis.  The kind of thing where you spend a whole frickin' day banging your head against some intractable problem, and when you finally find the answer it turns out to be some stupid one-line mistake in your code, which your eyeballs just skated over the first 99 times you reviewed it, and which could have been easily solved in thirty seconds if you had just noticed it sooner.

And that's not just when you're starting out.  That's what it's like all the time.  Forever.  Even if you're really good at it and have a lot of native talent.  Even if you've been doing it as a full-time job for over twenty years, like me.

And what's the payoff?  Writing a fantastic game?  No.  Well, maybe, eventually, after years of hard work.  But initially?  No, the payoff in the early phases is that after you've gone through all that toil and sweat, you produce a childish scrawl of a program that works, but looks pathetic next to a polished, shipping commercial product.  Heck, look at @AmpsterMan's post earlier in this thread.  His initial ambition isn't to write the next KSP, it's just to write a frickin' tic-tac-toe game.  And you know what?  That's a great ambition to start with, because it's realistic.  This is a guy whom I've talked with quite a bit, I know he's smart and hard-working, but he's setting his sights really simple to start with because that's what you have to do.

So.  If programming is so slow and tedious and aggravating, and if the realistic expectations for payoff are so humble (at least in the first few years), then the obvious question would be:  Why on earth would anyone other than an idiot or a masochist (or both) take it up in the first place?

The answer is:  because you find it incredibly fun.  Which most people wouldn't.  For most people, it would be an act of deliberate, extended, self-inflicted torture.  But for a few weirdos (like me), the act of programming itself is a kind of nirvana, a rush that is impossible to describe to someone who isn't wired that way.  "I... can... make... this... creature... DO MY BIDDING!"  You have to love that.  It has to be its own motivation.  You have to get a thrill out of making that tic-tac-toe game work, regardless of whether anyone else ever sees it or not.  That's the only way, realistically, to keep the motivation to keep plugging away at it year after year, even in the early phases when you're not making money or getting recognition for it.  Heck, I love programming so much that after working at it all day long on my day job, when I come home and want to relax... I then do it for fun, unpaid, by writing KSP mods.  Because, well, I'm a nerd. 

Find the thing you love to do.  Because you enjoy doing it for its own sake, even if nobody were ever to notice what you do.  Then do that.  And keep doing it.

Do you actually enjoy coding?  Does the idea excite you as something you like to do, regardless of "success" or "recognition"?

[ZooNamedGames]

2 minutes ago, Camacha said:

I understand you are going through some rough times and that is why you get cut some slack, but you really need to read what people are posting with some care. They mean well and give you good and solid advice. If you would have done that, you would have read that creating a mediocre game in the end is not a problem at all. You will still have learned skills that will serve you in life, in your piloting career and as a human being. That is very much worth it.

Since you have missed important bits of it, I would advise you to reread this thread carefully. Maybe even summarize the advice given in every post. I would love to see a summary of what you think people said.

It's a problem to me. Years and years of effort for middle of the road quality isn't worth it.

Piloting will be a job for me so I'll learn whether I want to or not, but coding would be a hobby. It isn't like learning how to change a tire where I can use it in the real world, it's something that I might use once a year or less.

I'll reread but honestly, depression goggles doesn't guarantee I will agree with you. As I've said to others, sure I have the mental ability to do anything I want, but I just don't.

7 minutes ago, Red Iron Crown said:

This is the root of your problem. Not that you are a terrible learner, but that you believe you are and therefore it's not worth putting the effort in to learn. If you really are a bad learner then you'll just have to put in more effort; literally anyone can learn anything if they are persistent enough. Stop looking for reasons why you can't do something or why it's futile to try, and start finding ways to get things done despite whatever challenges are making it more difficult for you. The old adage "Don't let anyone tell you that you can't" is particularly true when it's you telling yourself you can't.

If I was a decent learner, I'd have graduated from HS. But rather I'm stuck cleaning up the mess from failing to. But is the challenges of learning worth the rewards?

[Red Iron Crown]

4 minutes ago, ZooNamedGames said:

If I was a decent learner, I'd have graduated from HS. But rather I'm stuck cleaning up the mess from failing to.

Nonsense, doing well in HS is not indicative of being a good learner, nor is doing poorly an indicator of being a poor learner. Most of the people I know who did not graduate high school at the traditional age did so because they were uninterested; many of these people have gone on to be very successful (including a few that never bothered to finish at all).

It's not life ruining to mess up in high school. At all. It's potentially life ruining to decide that you can't do what you want, for whatever reason.

7 minutes ago, ZooNamedGames said:

But is the challenges of learning worth the rewards?

That's a question you have to answer for yourself, but I will tell you this: The rewarding feeling from accomplishing something is directly proportional to how difficult you find it.

[Camacha]

Just now, ZooNamedGames said:

Piloting will be a job for me so I'll learn whether I want to or not, but coding would be a hobby.

I really do hope you view piloting as more than just a job.

Just now, ZooNamedGames said:

It isn't like learning how to change a tire where I can use it in the real world, it's something that I might use once a year or less.

Do you know the (para)phrase "If all you have got is a hammer, everything looks like a nail"? The fun part is that once you know how to code a little bit, you start seeing applications you never thought of before. I have applied my meagre programming skills to real life, simply because I learnt how to do it and saw ways of making my life easier. It also will certainly help you be better at your future job, as computers are an important part of it. The more you understand them, the better you will be at coping with all sorts of situations.

However, that is just the literal side of things. You will learn many things that are applicable to all sorts of situations that have nothing to do with coding. Programming taught me about cutting a project into abstract yet manageable pieces, each with its own function. As a consequence, I am better at seeing what parts go in any project and planning and executing said projects, including non-programming ones. It also taught me that what you think you say is not always what you actually say. Computers interpret code more literal than I could have ever imagined without the experience. That has helped me communicate better with both man and machine. Another skill is learning that there are multiple paths to a solution. Systematically seeking out and eliminating errors. Coming up with conventions that work for you. I could list many lessons I learned while programming, which are all applicable to my every day real life world. I benefit from my experiences all the time.

[ZooNamedGames]

11 minutes ago, Snark said:

Right!  And eventually you will.  But you're not going to get to the point where you actually need that bigger computer until a long time from now.  Because you have to learn a whole bunch of other stuff first.

How so?  How many hours have you put into trying to learn to code?  I'm not trying to be glib here, I recognize that coding is not everybody's forte, and perhaps it simply isn't yours... but I haven't heard anything in this thread yet that says to me "here's a person who can't learn".  Perhaps the problem is that you simply haven't put in the necessary work?  I'm not asserting that that's the issue, merely raising it as a not unreasonable possibility.

Well, first of all, you don't know that until you've done it, do you?  If you're just going to assume that anything you do is going to be crap, so you're not going to start anything, then what's your point?  If you refuse to try, and therefore haven't gotten anywhere, what exactly is it that you are unhappy about, given that you refuse to try?

Besides, that's missing the point.  The real point is this:

  Reveal hidden contents

 

Do you actually enjoy coding?  Does the idea excite you as something you like to do, regardless of "success" or "recognition"?

Issue is by the time I get good enough to need more power, I won't have it. Again, as I hobby, I'm not pouring thousands into this. Flight school is going to take the brunt of any money. Now I could put away say 5 cents or something per week and wait for it to accumulate but over a decade is only $26.

Maybe 3 so far. I've tried guides, I've tried to lessons presented online but I am always left behind at some point or another. At one point I couldn't remember how to write the code for the common "hello world" part. That's not even elementary level programming, that's infant level and I failed. So I think you highly underestimate my incompetency.

I could be unhappy that I never tried, that I didn't give all my effort, that I did poorly, that I didn't grasp it no matter how hard I tried. There are plenty of things I can hate myself over.

So far from the experience I have, which is beyond minimal, the answer is no. But the end is one I want.

3 minutes ago, Camacha said:

I really do hope you view piloting as more than just a job.

Do you know the (para)phrase "If all you have got is a hammer, everything looks like a nail"? The fun part is that once you know how to code a little bit, you start seeing applications you never thought of before. I have applied my meagre programming skills to real life, simply because I learnt how to do it and saw ways of making my life easier. It also will certainly help you be better at your future job, as computers are an important part of it. The more you understand them, the better you will be at coping with all sorts of situations.

However, that is just the literal side of things. You will learn many things that are applicable to all sorts of situations that have nothing to do with coding. Programming taught me about cutting a project into abstract yet manageable pieces, each with its own function. As a consequence, I am better at seeing what parts go in any project and planning and executing said projects, including non-programming ones. It also taught me that what you think you say is not always what you actually say. Computers interpret code more literal than I could have ever imagined without the experience. That has helped me communicate better with both man and machine. Another skill is learning that there are multiple paths to a solution. Systematically seeking out and eliminating errors. Coming up with conventions that work for you. I could list many lessons I learned while programming, which are all applicable to my every day real life world. I benefit from my experiences all the time.

it's task I'm going to spend the rest of my life doing and will be paid for. I think that's the definition of a job. If my mindset is still not enough then I guess I can get a normal education in business financing or something and hate what I do for the 40 years.

I understand computers. Always have. I don't understand code. So planes and the equipment inside them will come easy, but writing in JavaScript or C++ is still not looking pretty.

I already have communication issues, so if I'm going to have to redo the last 19 years it took me to get to a basic level of understanding with society with a computer, then I think you've proven that I most definitely not program.

[Camacha]

5 minutes ago, ZooNamedGames said:

Issue is by the time I get good enough to need more power, I won't have it. Again, as I hobby, I'm not pouring thousands into this. Flight school is going to take the brunt of any money. Now I could put away say 5 cents or something per week and wait for it to accumulate but over a decade is only $26.

Computers are so cheap nowadays that even on an average computer, you can do really amazing things. besides, as soon as you start your actual job, you will quickly have more money than you could ever reasonably spend on hardware.

However, again, stop focussing on possible problems in the future and start working on the issues that are right in front of your nose.

Quote

Maybe 3 so far. I've tried guides, I've tried to lessons presented online but I am always left behind at some point or another. At one point I couldn't remember how to write the code for the common "hello world" part. That's not even elementary level programming, that's infant level and I failed. So I think you highly underestimate my incompetency.

The problem is that you failed and quit. Everyone fails. All the time. I do it, everyone of this forum does it, the world world fails. You have just to keep going to get anywhere. That is the trick. Not to mention the breakthroughs mankind has seen because of failure. Some of the biggest scientific breakthroughs happened because someone messed up.

9 minutes ago, ZooNamedGames said:

it's task I'm going to spend the rest of my life doing and will be paid for. I think that's the definition of a job. If my mindset is still not enough then I guess I can get a normal education in business financing or something and hate what I do for the 40 years.

Considering the long hours you need to put in, piloting generally is something that is both a passion and a job. If you just want to make money because you need money, flying might not be the career for you. If you happen to really like it and need money, it might be the job for you.

9 minutes ago, ZooNamedGames said:

I understand computers. Always have. I don't understand code. So planes and the equipment inside them will come easy, but writing in JavaScript or C++ is still not looking pretty.

You understand the superficial part of computers. By learning their inner workings, you understand them better. This will help you in your job, especially when problems might arise.

9 minutes ago, ZooNamedGames said:

I already have communication issues, so if I'm going to have to redo the last 19 years it took me to get to a basic level of understanding with society with a computer, then I think you've proven that I most definitely not program.

It will of course improve the understanding you already have, not wipe your existing experience away. Do not be silly

[ZooNamedGames]

1 minute ago, Camacha said:

Computers are so cheap nowadays that even on an average computer, you can do really amazing things. besides, as soon as you start your actual job, you will quickly have more money than you could ever reasonably spend on hardware.

However, again, stop focussing on possible problems in the future and start working on the issues that are right in front of your nose.

The problem is that you failed and quit. Everyone fails. All the time. I do it, everyone of this forum does it, the world world fails. You have just to keep going to get anywhere. That is the trick. Not to mention the breakthroughs mankind has seen because of failure. Some of the biggest scientific breakthroughs happened because someone messed up.

I quit because I had no choice. I could slam my head against the wall trying to brute force my way through the problem spending hours, maybe days and weeks trying to find how to solve this tiny problem that someone set me up to do as a way to test what they just explained to me or quit. If I was stumped on something that was supposed to be challenging, then that would be something but I'm getting stuck in essentially spots people never imagined people could.

[ZooNamedGames]

Honestly guys I wouldn't blame you if you've given up one me seeing as I can somehow find leak in the most positive of responses. I've given up on me so at this point there's no shame if you do, I truly deserve it since all I do is knock down others suggestions, inspirations and well made advice.

[Camacha]

1 minute ago, ZooNamedGames said:

I quit because I had no choice. I could slam my head against the wall trying to brute force my way through the problem spending hours, maybe days and weeks trying to find how to solve this tiny problem that someone set me up to do as a way to test what they just explained to me or quit. If I was stumped on something that was supposed to be challenging, then that would be something but I'm getting stuck in essentially spots people never imagined people could.

Let's be clear: you had a choice. You had it and you made it. Programming is an abstract art and people get stumped by different bits for different reasons. Many times I have spent hours trying to figure out what turned out to be a simple thing. That does not make me a stupid person, a bad programmer, a terrible learner or anything like that. It just means I needed to spend some time to learn a lesson.

And yes, programming is very much one of those things you need to brute force a lot. Try, try and try again. Fail, fail and fail again. I too have had many books, guides and lessons trying to teach me something in a way that was just not doing it for me. I got confused, frustrated even. Did I give up? No. I looked for someone else to explain it to me in another way and then I would get it.

Anyone who says this never happened to them it a liar Read this page (READ IT!) and you will see that your feelings are common. Every programmer knows what you are feeling.

1 minute ago, ZooNamedGames said:

Honestly guys I wouldn't blame you if you've given up one me seeing as I can somehow find leak in the most positive of responses. I've given up on me so at this point there's no shame if you do, I truly deserve it since all I do is knock down others suggestions, inspirations and well made advice.

Yeah, do not think we are going to let you get away that easy. Just like one helps someone that has fallen into a well, one helps someone that has fallen into depression. You are a perfectly capable human being that happened to stumble into a bad place. A car with a flat tire is not abandoned at the side of the road. It just needs a little attention and a new tire.

[adsii1970]

2 hours ago, ZooNamedGames said:

I know I can skip the middle and the beginning but if the end isn't worth the journey then why begin?

[edited by adsii1970 for relevant content that relates to my comment]

Ok, for me, this is low hanging fruit and I intend to smash it...

On one @ZooNamedGames asked what is out there that I do not do. Let me begin by saying that I believe in enjoying life to it's fullest. I am fascinated by the art of learning and have often waxed philosophical in the classroom. I tell my students that if they ever reach the point where they are tired of learning, death is close at hand. We are all born with what the educational philosophers call "tabula rosa" which means a blank slate. I prefer to think of our life, when we are born, as an empty canvas as a canvas lends itself to a host of creativity much more easily than a stone tablet.

As the result of this kind of life philosophy that I have had since I was 13, I have done a lot of things in life and have learned a lot of skills along the way. Music and science have always been my earliest passions, so I still compose music, I still play my French Horn and cornet, and am teaching myself to play the piano and ukulele. When it comes to computers, I do not do as much programming as I once did because it simply does not interest me at the moment (that could change at some point in time). I do enjoy graphics manipulation and graphics design, as you well know. I also am (thanks to @Just Jim) enjoying taking my crack at writing a fan-fic story about KSP. I also enjoy baking and cooking, and this morning I think I pressed the boundaries of "pancake decency" when my 6 year old daughter wanted me to make pancakes that tasted like mint-chocolate chip ice cream (mission accomplished, by the way). I also enjoy gardening, photography, model railroading (but I do not have a layout right now, my town house is too small... but once I get a house... ), model kit building, backyard astronomy, and reading science fiction.

Recently I have taken on a new role that I absolutely love - using basic chemistry, physics, and Earth sciences in the context of teaching Sunday School about the world around them and how real faith and real science can exist hand-in-hand and actually complement each other well.

While in pursuit of my higher education, I graduated with a B.A. in three years with 172 hours - Ancient History was my main focus with three minors - psychology, anthropology, and sociology. I didn't do all this because I want others to be amazed or to wow others, but because I enjoy the process of learning. As I get older, I know that I will develop new interests which might develop into new hobbies or maybe even a new career path. I've often been called a modern sage by my colleagues at the university and I take it as a complement. 

Professionally, I research history and teach it (or at least I try to . Students can be fickle!). This means I also pursue other loves, such as political science, religion, classical thought, economics, et al. There again is my fascination with learning - I enjoy watching a student when they have that "eureka!" moment during the course of the semester.

In my opinion, and I will be completely frank, quit trying to live a life that you think others will approve. At some point or another, we all do this until we realize that the people we are trying to make our life conform to are just as miserable as we are. Find the things you genuinely enjoy doing, then work on mastering the skills needed to get to the level you want to be. Then do them and gain your own approval. When you can take what you have done and look at it and feel satisfied with the results, then you've succeeded. At times, it can be more challenging to satisfy your own self with your efforts than it would be to try to meet the demands or gain the approval of others.

I know my graphics design is not the best and there are others on this forum that do a better job than I do, but to be honest, I am happy with my level of abilities. I love music composition and I really do not care if anyone ever likes one song I have written; I do not write for others but I write for my own enjoyment. And as far as goes, I write the story as an extension of my own imagination (there will be another chapter coming soon!) and while it is nice to have followers and I am honored by their faithfulness, I would probably still write the story if it were just me.

Be yourself, do what you love, and work on getting really good at it. Seek your own approval and let the chips fall where they may. In the end, everything you do and everything you are will not depend upon the judgment of others (unless you commit a crime and are facing a trial by jury) but between yourself - and if you believe in a superior spiritual being, between you and that deity.

Your comment, about what good is the journey if you can't get to the end, well the end is only a small part of it. It is what you encounter along the way that truly matters...

 

 

Edited September 6, 2016 by adsii1970

[ZooNamedGames]

I think my problem is; I'm just not a programmer. I can try to write code til I literally puke from how much I hate doing it. 

So that said; 99 (if not 100)% of my video game ideas will never come to light as I'm unable to make them on my own and no one would ever consider working on them for me. 

Yet I'll wake up tomorrow pondering on something else I think is awesome while everyone else tells me to shut up since its no better than the last 4,000 ideas. So, it and the ever burning hole in my brain that is my creativity will do nothing. That is the perils of being "the idea guy" and one I will have to burden the rest of my life since, I'm not a programming person.

[Camacha]

5 hours ago, ZooNamedGames said:

I'm not a programming person.

You have not failed enough to say this. Well, actually, you have not tried enough, but that is almost the same. Trying is failing is learning. You sound like a programming person to me.

[steve_v]

5 hours ago, ZooNamedGames said:

99 (if not 100)% of my video game ideas will never come to light as I'm unable to make them on my own and no one would ever consider working on them for me

To dredge up an over-used quote: "Genius is 1% inspiration, and 99% perspiration."
You don't seriously expect to provide the 1%, and convince others to do the perspiring for you, right? If you expect to fart out a great idea and convince some other schmuck to do the all coding... good luck with that, I for one would rather spend the time writing my own game.
People who make successful games solo have spent years learning the fundamentals beforehand - unless you happen to be some kind of code-savant you will have to do the same, however much you dislike it. Or throw a bunch of money at some programmers -for-hire, like everyone else does.
Sounds awfully like you just want shortcuts to the "good stuff" without doing the hard work to me.

Almost anyone can learn to do almost anything, IME, given enough perseverance. Try some more and learn to do it yourself, or go get some other job so you can pay to have it done for you.
Programming is hard, and nobody likes working for free. Deal with it.

[ZooNamedGames]

2 hours ago, Camacha said:

You have not failed enough to say this. Well, actually, you have not tried enough, but that is almost the same. Trying is failing is learning. You sound like a programming person to me.

Well maybe I could be. I'm just too busy googling how to do hello world to progress.

1 hour ago, steve_v said:

To dredge up an over-used quote: "Genius is 1% inspiration, and 99% perspiration."
You don't seriously expect to provide the 1%, and convince others to do the perspiring for you, right? If you expect to fart out a great idea and convince some other schmuck to do the all coding... good luck with that, I for one would rather spend the time writing my own game.
People who make successful games solo have spent years learning the fundamentals beforehand - unless you happen to be some kind of code-savant you will have to do the same, however much you dislike it. Or throw a bunch of money at some programmers -for-hire, like everyone else does.
Sounds awfully like you just want shortcuts to the "good stuff" without doing the hard work to me.

Almost anyone can learn to do almost anything, IME, given enough perseverance. Try some more and learn to do it yourself, or go get some other job so you can pay to have it done for you.
Programming is hard, and nobody likes working for free. Deal with it.

I disagree, in this modern world it seems those who come up with the ideas (let's say for cars or phones) come up with an idea and the toss it down to 1,000 fogeys to their work. So your statement isn't true in all circumstances.

Fine. If you can then good for you. But some of us are going to want to commit potentially dangerous harm to ourselves to get even 1% of that skill. Don't flaunt it and say "screw you" because you don't like my idea. Better to be quiet than to insult someone.

I do deal with it. I deal with it every day. I wake up and don't even want to eat because I don't have the motivation.

Got anymore wise crack advice for me?