[1.3] Planetary Domes

[Julie]

7 minutes ago, Thrimm said:

 

That's a great idea. Totally adding this to my to do list. Thanks!

Awesome! :-) The Dunanites thank you. :-)  Or Dunans?  hmmm Dunanite sounds like an combustable element. 

Edited December 19, 2016 by Julie

[The-Doctor]

20 hours ago, Thrimm said:

Guys, I believe I owe you an explanation.

First, let me start with a big THANK YOU to everyone who downloaded Planetary Domes and supports its development. I would have never expected something like this happening and it motivates me to work on this mod even more. That said, I've been hard at work testing several different solutions that would make the domes foldable and I need your opinion to help me decide where to take this mod in the future.

Most of the test were in an early alpha version on the update so they are not really eligible for public testing. However, a couple of major possible development branches emerged, each with its own perks and issues.

- foldable domes must have a floor integrated in and there is really no way to make them work without KIS/KAS unless a custom docking nodes are introduced. However, adding multiple docking nodes to the same part is a direct portal to the kraken realm. I really don't know what to do with this one, since I would like to make this mod standalone, even if its full potential could be unlocked with KIS/KAS

- if domes are foldable, attaching airlocks and tunnels becomes an issue of its own. Again with KIS/KAS this is not a big deal, but without it the system simply doesn't work. I've tried making custom docking nodes (again) for PD parts, with fairings as potential solution for smoothing the connection. It has the same problem, there is a need for multiple docking nodes (side note: these nodes follow a hierarchy and are custom, meaning that they do not mate with stock docking ports and only mate within a specific family, ie airlocks with tunnels but not with floor attachment points. For the game however it is still one docking port with multiple different docking nodes that creates A LOT of problems)

- foldable domes require multiple animations to be present, one to unpack (from shipping container, presumably one time use) and another to seal/unseal the dome, otherwise the dome wouldn't allow any base components to be installed inside. It should be obvious for you now that every animation would change the relative attachment point for the airlock and tunnels, which increases complexity even more (apart from making the animations simple yet pretty)

- technically everything could be docked (base components to floors, domes to floors and airlock/tunnels to domes) but it will be very buggy

- a solution to that might be in dynamic nodes such as those used in Konstruction by @RoverDude or IR. This would still however require KIS/KAS

- another feature I tested are hollow airlocks. Airlock would not be IVA spaces as they are now, but would behave much like tunnels and domes with animated doors and stuff. It would allow you to walk inside the PD base from one end to the other

- a simple solution to above problems is to make PD another base building mod where all spaces are IVA. There would be dedicated domes for everything: habitation, laboratory, aeroponics, etc (and compatible with USI for example) but you would loose the freedom of walking around inside the base. It's simpler to implement but I'm not a big fan of this solution because it adds little value to what we have already, apart from different cosmetic feel

- yet another issue is the size of the bases. the way KSP saves ships will pretty much always make is so parts of the base end up partially buried in the ground. I haven't found a way around that, and my observations from other mods indicate that a solution might not exist. I am not very experienced however so any suggestions are more than welcome

- I would like to keep this mod as pluginless and plugin independent as possible. There are two main reasons - first I'm not good at making plugins yet, and second plugins need to be updated every time the game is updated. Part updates that use stock modules need to be updated only when the engine changes or the stock modules change significantly. This alone makes the mod way more compatible. That said, I'm beginning to think that keeping it pluginless is impossible

I have probably forgotten about something important to mention... Anyway development is on its way, but slightly slower due to real life obligations.

 

 

That's a great idea. Totally adding this to my to do list. Thanks!

Here is my idea,        It's from National Geographic's MARS, yes it would be different from what this mod was meant to be, it would require internals and not be like the current mod you have, but I do think you should have some domes that have space you can walk around in. I think making it dependent on KIS/KAS isn't a bad thing, and making it fit into a container that you can properly land with a lander then deploy. I think the domes should fold out, the bottom part folding out for you to can attach parts to it (this is for the domes you can walk in) and to can attach parts in it, you should be able to click to open dome, to unravel it to can attach things. But I do believe it should have most domes that are standard with internals. The domes in the pic aren't super large btw.  

making some domes be part of KIS/KAS containers that are deployed would be a great idea, and having a few mega domes that you can walk into just like the ones you currently have. This would require key parts of the dome to be parts for docking tubes etc. These pics are Olympus Town from national geogrpahics MARS miniseries which ended today. It's a great series, started out slow, got great by episode 3, but I disliked the ending. Ps, for your space x ITS, I got an idea, I would love you to make the ITS like the ships from MARS, or at least make 1 version of it. Here it is 

---

[theJesuit]

On 19/12/2016 at 9:45 PM, Thrimm said:

Guys, I believe I owe you an explanation.

First, let me start with a big THANK YOU to everyone who downloaded Planetary Domes and supports its development. I would have never expected something like this happening and it motivates me to work on this mod even more. That said, I've been hard at work testing several different solutions that would make the domes foldable and I need your opinion to help me decide where to take this mod in the future.

<snip>

- another feature I tested are hollow airlocks. Airlock would not be IVA spaces as they are now, but would behave much like tunnels and domes with animated doors and stuff. It would allow you to walk inside the PD base from one end to the other

<more snip>

- yet another issue is the size of the bases. the way KSP saves ships will pretty much always make is so parts of the base end up partially buried in the ground. I haven't found a way around that, and my observations from other mods indicate that a solution might not exist. I am not very experienced however so any suggestions are more than welcome

I think hollow airlocks, rather than it being a static IVA model is the best option.

For the 'deploy', could it be perhaps a little like ExtraPlanetaryLaunchpads without animations.  You launch a static 'seed' which acts like a EPL stake.  After a certain time the base is 'built', replacing the seed with the dome and floor.  The kerbals have effectively created the based from scratch. It wouldn't matter if the 'seeds' are all part of one craft, or scattered on multiple landings within a certain vicinity.  I realise that this plugin territory so sorry!

Thanks for your ongoing machinations on this project!

Peace.

[The-Doctor]

@Thrimm with Kerbalism out, will you make it compatible? 

[Thrimm]

1 hour ago, The-Doctor said:

@Thrimm with Kerbalism out, will you make it compatible? 

Added to the to do list.

[The-Doctor]

22 hours ago, Thrimm said:

Added to the to do list.

please check out Natgeo's MARS, the ships are inspired by spaceX's ITS, I posted it on the planetary domes post. [EDIT] Well this one, LOL

Edited January 3, 2017 by The-Doctor

[That_Other_Guy]

Please don't forget about this mod. I really miss it in my mod-list. 

[Thrimm]

24 minutes ago, That_Other_Guy said:

Please don't forget about this mod. I really miss it in my mod-list. 

You can still use it with the latest version of KSP, that is why it's not updated. I'll update it as soon as there is something new to add. Which might be sooner than you think

[TheEpicSquared]

58 minutes ago, Thrimm said:

You can still use it with the latest version of KSP, that is why it's not updated. I'll update it as soon as there is something new to add. Which might be sooner than you think

Maybe you should update the title to say 1.2.2 instead of 1.1.3  

[Redmanjbj]

On 9/28/2016 at 8:51 AM, Olympic1 said:

Added

I can't seem to find this mod in CKAN

[hypervelocity]

yo @Thrimm, many many thanks for this mod, it is awesome!!! I haven't deployed any surface bases yet but the folks at my Earth & Moon space stations are getting a much needed overhaul to their observatories! Will post pics later on

Small suggestions: if these domes are pressurized & full of oxygen, I would suggest they consume a bit of EC to sustain pressure and also act as an oxygen tank meaning the gas must be loaded into them as a resource and can be depleted.

Keep up the great work! Cheers!

[JadeOfMaar]

Everyone looking to send base pieces off-world may want to check out this new mod. It literally lets you stuff your ship/base/station (from the SPH/VAB) all into a box and ship it to where it needs to be built. No dependency on Launchpads and no more worries about KIS storage, part count, part radius or fairings.

 

[That_Other_Guy]

On 1/6/2017 at 11:27 PM, Thrimm said:

You can still use it with the latest version of KSP, that is why it's not updated. I'll update it as soon as there is something new to add. Which might be sooner than you think

Oh i didn't even know, thanks! 

[JadeOfMaar]

This isn't the glass fortress I promised a few months ago, but it's close. I built this today (with more stuff but then I made a trimmed down version, this). With 3 more large domes and several tanks, including procedural ones, it simulated readiness for TAC LS storage and SimpleConstruction integration. This one is the "smalltown" and merely a fuel cache and medium outpost. The open pads need docking ports or KAS connectors for craft parked on them.

...

Jebediah's ignoring the yellow alert.

 

 

 

 

[The-Doctor]

@JadeOfMaar how did you get that base on the planet, also how do you cover the domes?

[JadeOfMaar]

@The-Doctor I cheated it there just for fun, but its dry mass is only 100 tons. It wouldn't be much trouble to deploy it through SimpleConstruction (gives EPL features to stock parts). But if I use Ground Construction I can send the whole thing over in a big box, and the local crew will build it out from the box. But that's a lot of weight to send to a planet as far out as Dres with near-Laythe gravity.

Due to how the nodes are setup, I attach the dome glass first to the airlock then hold Alt while placing the floor so it attaches properly (stack) to the dome. Otherwise I radially attach the floor to the airlock and then offset it way back out, then hold Alt while placing the dome.

@Thrimm May I ping you by the way? Given the floor's attach nodes are only on one side can I ask you to change the color of the opposite side? I built my base in SPH and not knowing heads from tails made for a good few wasted moves placing things on the floors.

Edited January 15, 2017 by JadeOfMaar
condensed links and described situ for legit base-dropping

[Thrimm]

@JadeOfMaar awesome looking base! As for the floors, I'll add extra nodes as well as some texture tweaking with the release that is coming up. Although the update is getting so bit that it might actually be split in two.

[JadeOfMaar]

2 minutes ago, Thrimm said:

@JadeOfMaar awesome looking base! As for the floors, I'll add extra nodes as well as some texture tweaking with the release that is coming up. Although the update is getting so bit that it might actually be split in two.

Say wha? What's the download size? If I may ask.

[Thrimm]

On 16/01/2017 at 4:42 AM, JadeOfMaar said:

Say wha? What's the download size? If I may ask.

It's not the size, but so many conceptual changes + functionality extensions and new parts that it might be impossible to maintain compatibility.

Also, I am thinking about adding some features explicitly related to MKS. I think that setting up a domed base should have some benefits (apart from killer looks obviously), so I was thinking that if domes removed kerbal homesickness that would allow building a permanent colony. If you guys have some other base building mods that would work well in this regard let me know, I'll try to make them compatible.

As for Kerbalism compatibility, I'm working on it, but I would love to hear what features you would like to see implemented.

Thanks for all your support!

[JadeOfMaar]

@Thrimm Your domes removing homesickness would be a deal-maker imo. My one big question is how you'll accommodate things like MKS habitation, mass resource storage, Kerbalism atmosphere etc in these hollow IVA-less things (the dome's floor and glass). I'm expecting some kind of pre-made in-floor/around-floor or on-glass modules (cabins and tanks). I have no doubts that you've already well answered this question and I mean no offense. I haven't forgotten that you've done endlessly awesome things already.  

I'd be mindblown if there's some kind of mechanism that detects when a glass and floor are connected and creates a virtual object that fills their volume concerning MKS habitation and Kerbalism atmosphere...and somehow registers and involves kerbals in that space.

[Thrimm]

14 minutes ago, JadeOfMaar said:

@Thrimm Your domes removing homesickness would be a deal-maker imo. My one big question is how you'll accommodate things like MKS habitation, mass resource storage, Kerbalism atmosphere etc in these hollow IVA-less things (the dome's floor and glass). I'm expecting some kind of pre-made in-floor/around-floor or on-glass modules (cabins and tanks). I have no doubts that you've already well answered this question and I mean no offense. I haven't forgotten that you've done endlessly awesome things already.  

I'd be mindblown if there's some kind of mechanism that detects when a glass and floor are connected and creates a virtual object that fills their volume concerning MKS habitation and Kerbalism atmosphere...and somehow registers and involves kerbals in that space.

I wanted to make things simple and start with just removing homesickness if a dome is present in your base. Or at least greatly increasing hab multiplier. As for the topic of IVA-less things acting as IVA spaces, I'm not sure how it could be done. However, MKS from @RoverDude uses some sort of distance detection for vessel interaction (namely scavenging) and since Kerbal are technically vessels, maybe there is a way to tweak this behavior into acting as if there was an atmosphere inside the dome. I'm not sure, one thing that I'm not is plugin specialist

[JadeOfMaar]

15 minutes ago, Thrimm said:

I wanted to make things simple and start with just removing homesickness if a dome is present in your base. Or at least greatly increasing hab multiplier. As for the topic of IVA-less things acting as IVA spaces, I'm not sure how it could be done. However, MKS from @RoverDude uses some sort of distance detection for vessel interaction (namely scavenging) and since Kerbal are technically vessels, maybe there is a way to tweak this behavior into acting as if there was an atmosphere inside the dome. I'm not sure, one thing that I'm not is plugin specialist

That's.... sheer genius. Use a logistic-like system to topup kerbals' EVA supplies once they're within the area or volume of a dome part. That eliminates the need to add (a lot of) virtual capacity (and therefore mass) directly to the dome glass and floor. Now if, say, something was to strike a dome and destroy it, some resource does indeed need to be lost.  

[The-Doctor]

Here I am still hoping

[Grande1900]

the grandmother of all mods or or (: or ):

Edited April 8, 2017 by Kerbal24728
HEEERP DEEERP

[HenrikH]

On 8/1/2017 at 7:52 AM, Redmanjbj said:

I can't seem to find this mod in CKAN

It's there, but because it is only written as being compatible with 1.1.3 in CKAN, it doesn't show for 1.2.2 under the "compatible" mods, and can't be installed.