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[1.12.x] Konstruction! Weldable ports, servos, cranes, and magnets!

RoverDude

By RoverDude
in KSP1 Mod Releases

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ChrisF0001

ChrisF0001

Posted
Posted
2 hours ago, KerbMav said:

Can you reproduce the problem with another craft?

Can you upload you logfiles somewhere?

I can reproduce it, although annoyingly it seems to be dependent on what the attachment point is attached to.

A test craft of: 

<thing> : [BZ-52 Radial Attachment Point] : [Construction port] : [Construction port] : [MKS MiniTruss] (with probe core)

...works correctly when <thing> is, say, a fuel tank.  But when <thing> is 'Hexa-Girder Modular Truss S1' from Near Future Structural (as in the real case):

...[LOG 19:01:03.455] Looking at node bottom
[LOG 19:01:03.455] Returning BZ-52 Radial Attachment Point
[ERR 19:01:03.455] A joint can't connect the body to itself.

[EXC 19:01:03.456] NullReferenceException: Object reference not set to an instance of an object
...And then it collapses.

(I have no particularly convenient way to upload more logs at this exact moment, but there are more tests I have yet to try...)

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Brigadier

Brigadier

Posted
Posted
3 hours ago, ChrisF0001 said:

(I have no particularly convenient way to upload more logs at this exact moment, but there are more tests I have yet to try...)

KerbMav will probably want links to the whole player.log (a minimum game session that shows the problem) and maybe to the .craft files of your working and not-working vehicles.  You can find the latter in the <your KSP folder>/saves/<your save>/Ships/VAB or /SPH, depending on where you saved them.

As a suggestion, Dropbox, Google Drive and OneDrive are all pretty mainstream and convenient, but I may be misunderstanding your problem.  If you take screenshots, consider Imgur if you haven't already.

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ChrisF0001

ChrisF0001

Posted
Posted
On 10/30/2019 at 10:31 PM, Brigadier said:

KerbMav will probably want links to the whole player.log (a minimum game session that shows the problem) and maybe to the .craft files of your working and not-working vehicles.  You can find the latter in the <your KSP folder>/saves/<your save>/Ships/VAB or /SPH, depending on where you saved them.

As a suggestion, Dropbox, Google Drive and OneDrive are all pretty mainstream and convenient, but I may be misunderstanding your problem.  If you take screenshots, consider Imgur if you haven't already.

I think your understanding is correct, I just haven't set any of those things up for public sharing at this time. ^_^;  I probably should...

Still, if I can recreate the issue with only stock / USI parts I shall attempt to take the next steps. Since it does seem part-dependent it's rather speculative at this point, and I've been able to 'work around' using... slightly underhanded means for the time being! :)

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dunebugmi

dunebugmi

Posted
Posted

Hi, can I add the weldable port module to the stock KSP docking ports?

My gut tells me that if I add this code with Module Manager it will turn regular docking ports into weldable docking ports.  I'm trying to set up KSP so that I can use modded parts without losing the entire craft when I load a savegame where that mod is not installed.  

@PART[*]:HAS[@MODULE[ModuleDockingNode]]

{

MODULE{       name = ModuleWeldablePort         portSnap = false       }    

}

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zer0Kerbal

zer0Kerbal

Posted
Posted (edited)
33 minutes ago, dunebugmi said:

Hi, can I add the weldable port module to the stock KSP docking ports?

My gut tells me that if I add this code with Module Manager it will turn regular docking ports into weldable docking ports.  I'm trying to set up KSP so that I can use modded parts without losing the entire craft when I load a savegame where that mod is not installed.  

@PART[*]:HAS[@MODULE[ModuleDockingNode]]

{

MODULE{       name = ModuleWeldablePort         portSnap = false       }    

}

yes.

/YMMV/ /Test Before Use in Live Save Game/

I haven't used this in a spell - it is designed to ADD appropriate nodeType to stock dockignPorts. Use is enable patch when you want to weld, disable patch when you don't.

Spoiler 

// StockDockingPorts.cfg v1.0
// Konstruction
// created: 15 Jan 17
// updated: 04 Nov 19

@PART[dockingPort3]:NEEDS[Konstruction]:AFTER[Konstruction]
{
	@MODULE[ModuleDockingNode]
	{
		@nodeType ^= :$:, ConSize0:
	}

	MODULE
	{
		name = ModuleWeldablePort
		portSnap = false
	}
}
@PART[dockingPort2]:NEEDS[Konstruction]:AFTER[Konstruction]
{
	@MODULE[ModuleDockingNode]
	{
		@nodeType ^= :$:, ConSize1:
	}

	MODULE
	{
		name = ModuleWeldablePort
		portSnap = false
	}
}
@PART[dockingPortLarge]:NEEDS[Konstruction]:AFTER[Konstruction]
{
	@MODULE[ModuleDockingNode]
	{
		@nodeType ^= :$:, ConSize2:
	}

	MODULE
	{
		name = ModuleWeldablePort
		portSnap = false
	}
}

// zer0Kerbal// CC BY-NC-SA-4.0
// zer0Kerbal

 

Edited by zer0Kerbal
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dunebugmi

dunebugmi

Posted
Posted
3 hours ago, zer0Kerbal said:

/YMMV/ /Test Before Use in Live Save Game/

  Reveal hidden contents 


// StockDockingPorts.cfg v1.0
// Konstruction
// created: 15 Jan 17
// updated: 04 Nov 19

@PART[dockingPort3]:NEEDS[Konstruction]:AFTER[Konstruction]
{
	@MODULE[ModuleDockingNode]
	{
		@nodeType ^= :$:, ConSize0:
	}

	MODULE
	{
		name = ModuleWeldablePort
		portSnap = false
	}
}
@PART[dockingPort2]:NEEDS[Konstruction]:AFTER[Konstruction]
{
	@MODULE[ModuleDockingNode]
	{
		@nodeType ^= :$:, ConSize1:
	}

	MODULE
	{
		name = ModuleWeldablePort
		portSnap = false
	}
}
@PART[dockingPortLarge]:NEEDS[Konstruction]:AFTER[Konstruction]
{
	@MODULE[ModuleDockingNode]
	{
		@nodeType ^= :$:, ConSize2:
	}

	MODULE
	{
		name = ModuleWeldablePort
		portSnap = false
	}
}

// zer0Kerbal// CC BY-NC-SA-4.0
// zer0Kerbal

 

Tested and Confirmed.  This does add the weldability to the stock docking ports. 

Also of note: I use a simple MM adjustment that lets different size docking nodes attach.  Preliminary testing shows that the weldability still works even with the different size docking nodes.  I suppose the code was written to join the two parts where the origin of the docking nodes was.

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zer0Kerbal

zer0Kerbal

Posted
Posted
24 minutes ago, dunebugmi said:

Tested and Confirmed.  This does add the weldability to the stock docking ports. 

Also of note: I use a simple MM adjustment that lets different size docking nodes attach.  Preliminary testing shows that the weldability still works even with the different size docking nodes.  I suppose the code was written to join the two parts where the origin of the docking nodes was.

seems little known (or remembered) that can have multiple size ports on one node by separating them with a comma.

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  • 2 weeks later...
VelRahnKoon

VelRahnKoon

Posted
Posted

I have a question and I've been unable to find anything in the wiki. In the Servo Controller window, there is a button next to the -10 and -1 buttons. It starts off as a +, then if you click the button it turns into a - sign, then another click turns it into an "o". Any ideas what that button does? I clicked it all the way to "o" for one of the joints on my part, and now that joint won't function as a slave any longer. Any ideas how to revert the change?

 

Thanks in advance!

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DStaal

DStaal

Posted
Posted
32 minutes ago, strider3 said:

Can 2 PAW's be shown...or will it take 2 screenshots?

You can have both in one screenshot - you just need to click the 'pin' in the top-right corner of the pop-up, then that PAW will stay.

10 minutes ago, strider3 said:

I took the "port roll" on the station's port to "0" (the bottom screenshot) and it docked just fine. I'll have to remember that.

I generally wouldn't play with that setting, personally.  The 'port range' on the top screenshot was probably a large part of the problem: You have to get that dock within 0.5m of the other dock before the docking will kick in.  (And then it has to stay there while everything else gets aligned...)

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strider3

strider3

Posted
Posted
37 minutes ago, DStaal said:

You can have both in one screenshot - you just need to click the 'pin' in the top-right corner of the pop-up, then that PAW will stay.

I generally wouldn't play with that setting, personally.  The 'port range' on the top screenshot was probably a large part of the problem: You have to get that dock within 0.5m of the other dock before the docking will kick in.  (And then it has to stay there while everything else gets aligned...)

I use the "port roll" to make sure my parts are aligning, radially, before docking, that way my station arms aren't "rolled" a few degrees off. But it appears having both ports with "port roll" set is a no no. Now that you mention it the "port range" was set higher on the stations port...probably should set the "incoming", docking craft to a higher number...not the "receiving" (station) port?

Thanks buddy!

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DStaal

DStaal

Posted
Posted
4 minutes ago, strider3 said:

I use the "port roll" to make sure my parts are aligning, radially, before docking, that way my station arms aren't "rolled" a few degrees off. But it appears having both ports with "port roll" set is a no no. Now that you mention it the "port range" was set higher on the stations port...probably should set the "incoming", docking craft to a higher number...not the "receiving" (station) port?

Thanks buddy!

What you want for that is the 'snap' and 'Angle'.  Then it will 'snap' to the 'angle' you set.  ;) (But note the setting has to match on both docking ports.)

In general, I'd want most of the settings to match between both ports, except for maybe the force and torque settings which I might set higher on one.

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strider3

strider3

Posted
Posted
10 minutes ago, DStaal said:

What you want for that is the 'snap' and 'Angle'.  Then it will 'snap' to the 'angle' you set.  ;) (But note the setting has to match on both docking ports.)

In general, I'd want most of the settings to match between both ports, except for maybe the force and torque settings which I might set higher on one.

Sheesh...I apparently have no idea what the settings do? LOL! Can you point me to more info on the entire "snap" and "angle" thingies?

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Geonovast

Geonovast

Posted
Posted
9 minutes ago, strider3 said:

Sheesh...I apparently have no idea what the settings do? LOL! Can you point me to more info on the entire "snap" and "angle" thingies?

I recommend installing the DockRotate mod so you can match everything up perfectly after docking.  The angle snap function doesn't get it perfect and can be rather... violent.

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  • 3 weeks later...
strider3

strider3

Posted
Posted (edited)

Now when I "weld" two parts together other parts fly off?? In the screenshot below I have just "welded" the highlighted octo-girder to the central hub...and 2 seconds later a "mini-kraken" happens and 2 other girders come off. These arms were assembled in the VAB, not in space. What the heck? I've been trying to build this station for a month and it's one problem after another.

screenshot10.jpg

Edited by strider3
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DStaal

DStaal

Posted
Posted
1 hour ago, strider3 said:

Now when I "weld" two parts together other parts fly off?? In the screenshot below I have just "welded" the highlighted octo-girder to the central hub...and 2 seconds later a "mini-kraken" happens and 2 other girders come off. These arms were assembled in the VAB, not in space. What the heck? I've been trying to build this station for a month and it's one problem after another.

This is going to be hard to diagnose without logs of when it happens, however I have a theory on what's likely going on:

Welding two parts together will produce forces in the ship.  How much force will depend on the settings on the docking ports, the design, what resources are loaded into which tanks, what rate physics is running at, etc.  Regardless, there is always a momentary force load - and if that force propagates though the ship and it then exceeds the node strength of a different node, you'd see something like the above.  It's never happened to me - but I've never built that station, and I haven't played on your computer.  I can see that your station is big enough to slow down KSP, which tends to mean more physics glitches, so this is likely.

However, that's just a guess.

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strider3

strider3

Posted
Posted
2 minutes ago, DStaal said:

This is going to be hard to diagnose without logs of when it happens, however I have a theory on what's likely going on:

Welding two parts together will produce forces in the ship.  How much force will depend on the settings on the docking ports, the design, what resources are loaded into which tanks, what rate physics is running at, etc.  Regardless, there is always a momentary force load - and if that force propagates though the ship and it then exceeds the node strength of a different node, you'd see something like the above.  It's never happened to me - but I've never built that station, and I haven't played on your computer.  I can see that your station is big enough to slow down KSP, which tends to mean more physics glitches, so this is likely.

However, that's just a guess.

This is actually very small...all those Konstruction ports you see will have (and have had) tanks attached eventually. I had the thing almost completed but the portable strut locations were out of control so I'm trying to start over (see screenshot of previous below). I did not have this particular issue in the previous build.

screenshot8.jpg

 

Your reply brings up several questions:

Can the "node strength" be manipulated?

Is there a setting on these Konstruction ports that deals with the forces produced during the "Compress Parts" (weld) function?

In the interest of helping the helpers when (not if :sticktongue:) future problems occur, how do I go about logging when an issue occurs?

Thank you!

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DStaal

DStaal

Posted
Posted

Interesting.  First thing I note is with the previous build KSP is running full-speed.  To answer your questions:

Node strength can be manipulated slightly I believe, with MM patches or config file changes.  It's dependent on the 'size' of the node, affects other things as well.  However the different sizes aren't all that different in strengths, and this would be my last place to look for a solution.

The forces created on when the parts are Compressed will depend somewhat on the settings in the right-click menu - if the port is rotating the parts during the compression for instance, then the forces will be higher.  I'm not sure all of what would/could affect it however - I just know that since KSP is going to be rebuilding the ship tree structure and COM, there will be forces involved as it does so.

As for logging, the logs are created automatically.  This post has a good description of where to find them on your system:

 

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DStaal

DStaal

Posted
Posted
7 minutes ago, strider3 said:

"full speed"? I'm not sure what you mean by that? Where are you seeing this?

Top left corner.  In the second picture, the time is in green, meaning that KSP is running 1:1 in physics warp.  (No slowdown.)  In the previous picture it's in yellow, meaning you are in game-induced physics warp and that the game isn't running quite realtime.  If it was in red you'd be in serious physics warp.

This matters for this because in physics warp there's more in-game time between physics calculations, which means parts can move further before forces are computed again on them, which can mean internal forces can build up further.  (And possibly cause ships to break.)

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