What Facts Do We Know About The Devs Leaving?

[Alewx]

12 minutes ago, Andem said:

Check the staff tab at the top of the page. 

Ah thanks, that is still something I did not get used to since forum changed

[Sharpy]

3 minutes ago, RoverDude said:

United States.  Tho this is pretty public knowledge.Also the repeated assertion that there are only two devs left is incorrect.

You do realize that not every dev is a member of the forums?  And given the witch hunt, I don't really blame them.

Thanks. Hypothesis dead.

Good catch that the 'staff' list doesn't list employees not registered here.

[Alewx]

6 hours ago, RoverDude said:

(by the way, there are more than two developers left, so that fact is incorrect).

I guess that is up to what you count, there are only two programmers left, so in that way you both got it right.

[RoverDude]

There are at least six people I know of working on the game, and I don't know every single person in MX, so I am limiting that list to the ones I do know.  Three of those include myself, Trigger, and Nightingale.  You can extend that list even further since some of the QA guys have some crossover, and do things like fix scenarios/tutorials, part configs, etc. (so technically a 'Dev' activity, but we get spare sets of hands sometimes)

And maybe take a step back and consider how it would feel to see your work life dissected and be unable to respond (hint:  Some of your facts are blatantly false, but I'd break NDA to tell you which ones), while watching your professional life and a company you work for and respect be publicly torched.  Watch as every single answer is either deemed a 'corporate lie' or 'not enough!' because people simply won't accept simple truths and want conspiracy theories, and handing soap boxes to disgruntled people with axes to grind is so much more entertaining.  Oh.. and I know some of the 'Shill' jokes were meant in jest... but yeah, it's getting a bit hurtful.  So add that in, knowing that there are a thousand things you could say because everyone is so wildly off base, but you're restricted by NDA, a good dose of professionalism, and a bit of common courtesy.

Then consider what value tearing apart and dissecting it and trying to turn it a hundred ways has.  Now imagine if it was your personal or professional life under a public microscope.  And while doing that, consider that I had to spend my time typing this instead of (a) being with my family, or (b) working on KSP.

5 minutes ago, Alewx said:

I guess that is up to what you count, there are only two programmers left, so in that way you both got it right.

That's completely incorrect.  There are at least four.

(For clarity because there are too many armchair lawyers in this thread).  Chris is counted among the recent departures.  He is not a developer, but he makes pretty things for the game.  Although one could consider work on things like PBR, LOD, etc. development.  If you follow that definition, then you're at (at least) six.  If you limit to C#, more like (at least) four.  If you include anyone who checks things into source control in support of the game, whether it's code or other assets, you are up to at least eight.

Edited October 6, 2016 by RoverDude

[Speeding Mullet]

Nice thread OP, will be checking in here regularly to separate fiction and rumor from confirmed fact.  Other than that I shall be gamely riding the wave of mutilation through to the other side, patiently awaiting 1.2, and planning a total re-work of the Shuttle Challenge thread.  All this heat should have people looking the other way just long enough for me to make some progress.

To everyone involved in working on KSP, current, past or future - You have given me selflessly a part of my unrequited wish to explore, to be an engineer, to build rockets and visit the solar system of of your collective making.  You have re-kindled a spark in gaming that was largely wondering without aim, and introduced me to an incredible community which I love being a part of.  Regardless of anything else said or to be said, I couldn't think higher of your contributions.

Thank you.

SM

[Mycroft]

Personally, @RoverDude, I'm thinking you're in the right here. For what it's worth, and it's not much, I know how bad it feels to be under huge and unkind scrutiny, and I want to support you.

Ohhh I wish you could correct my OP! I want the true facts to get out. I sympathize greatly with the feeling of sheer helpless frustration that comes from not being able to respond to grossly inaccurate information when stakes are high. I'll add a sentence to take it with a grain of salt, though.

Edited October 6, 2016 by Mycroft

[Signo]

@RoverDude - I fully support your "pro" stance. It is on SQUAD to inform its customers.

[Andem]

31 minutes ago, RoverDude said:

You do realize that not every dev is a member of the forums?  And given the witch hunt, I don't really blame them.

Really? That sounds like a no-brainer, the primary method of interacting with the community seems like something that would be mandatory for someone working directly on the project. It was actually so silly the thought hadn't crossed my mind.

[RoverDude]

Just now, Signo said:

@RoverDude - I fully support your "pro" stance. It is on SQUAD to inform its customers.

Which they have...  to the extent allowed by legal and ethical reasons.  People move on.  Development will continue.  Heck, they went a bit above and beyond by clarifying compensation practices and workplace policies.  They also clarified that development is continuing, and shared some future plans.  It would be ridiculously unethical to air out private personnel issues.

Consider for a second.  Think back to every time you left a job, or had someone leave a job you worked at.  If every detail of that departure was on the front page of reddit and analyzed to death by armchair experts.  And every one of your future employers could take a peek at all of it while you were in the interview chair.  And you might understand why private things are private for a reason.

[Rath]

They are community forums.  If you aren't planning on interacting with the community, why would you have an account?

[RoverDude]

2 minutes ago, Andem said:

Really? That sounds like a no-brainer, the primary method of interacting with the community seems like something that would be mandatory for someone working directly on the project. It was actually so silly the thought hadn't crossed my mind.

You do realize that for devs to directly interact with the community is NOT the norm yes?  And reading all of these threads... do you really blame them?

[Alewx]

12 minutes ago, RoverDude said:

That's completely incorrect.  There are at least four.

(For clarity because there are too many armchair lawyers in this thread).  Chris is counted among the recent departures.  He is not a developer, but he makes pretty things for the game.  Although one could consider work on things like PBR, LOD, etc. development.  If you follow that definition, then you're at (at least) six.  If you limit to C#, more like (at least) four.  If you include anyone who checks things into source control in support of the game, whether it's code or other assets, you are up to at least eight.

According to this nice list there are just 2.

TriggerAU also is someone for sorucecode but that is insight knowledge and not part of this official list, the only real source there is asfik.

[Bomaye]

2 minutes ago, RoverDude said:

Which they have...  to the extent allowed by legal and ethical reasons.  People move on.  Development will continue.  Heck, they went a bit above and beyond by clarifying compensation practices and workplace policies.  They also clarified that development is continuing, and shared some future plans.  It would be ridiculously unethical to air out private personnel issues.

Consider for a second.  Think back to every time you left a job, or had someone leave a job you worked at.  If every detail of that departure was on the front page of reddit and analyzed to death by armchair experts.  And every one of your future employers could take a peek at all of it while you were in the interview chair.  And you might understand why private things are private for a reason.

This^

It's funny to watch how negativity attracts........well, I leave the description out

To @RoverDude: You are a perfect example of the guys in KSP: Very open, straight forward and personal, sometimes a bit too personal for what is good for you. But then again, if you like what you do all people tend to do that.

That is one of the reasons I play the game actually, it's a nice community! Me like that a lot 

[Signo]

@RoverDude: I am not looking for a statement on the reasons why this group of devs parted ways with SQUAD - I am looking for a clear statement on the future of the game itself in a time when the "feeling" is that the party is over. It seems legit to me that when a huge disaster strikes we could have an extra "state of the union" pitch on how we will go on.

 

PS - where I do live the IT world is a small world: if you are a "sicko" everybody knows in a matter of months.

Edited October 6, 2016 by Signo

[Sharpy]

6 minutes ago, Alewx said:

According to this nice list there are just 2.

Find a list without 'forum' as the first part of the URL.

[RoverDude]

11 minutes ago, Alewx said:

According to this nice list there are just 2.

TriggerAU also is someone for sorucecode but that is insight knowledge and not part of this official list, the only real source there is asfik.

You know, while I am not sure why I am even arguing with you... you are wrong   About something so ridiculously basic.

[Mycroft]

Making this thread was simultaneously the best and worst decision of my forum career. It was good, because it helped me set things straight at least in my own mind, and try to refute the worst rumors I saw. Never have I posted something so widely appreciated (or so it seems to be appreciated).

And yet, never have I ever come under such scathing criticism as is here. I find myself being accused of meddling in internal affairs, to ruining @RoverDude's career, to being a hater.

Wow! I'm just one guy trying to stop the most harmful rumors! I did my homework, at least what I could do without being sworn to silence, and posted my results. I honestly don't know what to think. Should I apply to have this thread deleted, or leave it up? I'm kind of overwhelmed, I have to confess. Help, I guess?

[Alewx]

11 minutes ago, RoverDude said:

You know, while I am not sure why I am even arguing with you... you are wrong   About something so ridiculously basic.

Sure I'm wrong because there are sooooooo much more staff members labeled as programmers..... Maybe I'm just blind but I do only see 2 there.

[Andem]

15 minutes ago, RoverDude said:

You do realize that for devs to directly interact with the community is NOT the norm yes?  And reading all of these threads... do you really blame them?

Well duh, I am not a moron. I understand that ksp is the exception, it just seems odd that such a community focused game there would be more effort  to interact with the community. And I also think that you're being unnecessarily (and unfairly) harsh towards the community. Actually reading every post on the threads reveals that the vast majority of people don't actually believe that Squad  is mistreating the devs or that development is permanently stopping, but Squad has really done nothing but vague "damage control" and hasn't addressed what the community at large finds to be a more pressing issue, which would be the circumstances around the staff leaving and a clearer idea of the immediate future of the game. Now Squad isn't legally obligated to do this, but they've sure as hell built up that expectation over the past few months.

[Hary R]

13 minutes ago, Mycroft said:

Making this thread was simultaneously the best and worst decision of my forum career. It was good, because it helped me set things straight at least in my own mind, and try to refute the worst rumors I saw. Never have I posted something so widely appreciated (or so it seems to be appreciated).

And yet, never have I ever come under such scathing criticism as is here. I find myself being accused of meddling in internal affairs, to ruining @RoverDude's career, to being a hater.

Wow! I'm just one guy trying to stop the most harmful rumors! I did my homework, at least what I could do without being sworn to silence, and posted my results. I honestly don't know what to think. Should I apply to have this thread deleted, or leave it up? I'm kind of overwhelmed, I have to confess. Help, I guess?

@Mycroft This is just geting out of control I guess, time to stop it. Sometime a good idea can turn out to be a bad idea on the long run.

[RoverDude]

3 minutes ago, Andem said:

And I also think that you're being unnecessarily (and unfairly) harsh towards the community.

...

I'm just going to drop the mic right here.

[Kerolyov]

@Mycroft, this has been a valiant attempt to try and sort out the fact from rumour. I think this issue (in general not this thread) has got out of hand for a number of reasons: -

1) The devs in KSP have always interacted with the community to some degree and some of the devs were/are former modders and ordinary community members.  This has created a different dynamic when devs leave as they are felt to be part of the community and their loss is felt much more than games where the devs are largely anonymous.  

2) The timing of the announcement by the leaving devs was very odd.  Normally you would expect a more orderly departure announced as soon as a patch was both released and declared stable.  Leaving just before is unusual.

3) 8 devs leaving at once including 2 of the most senior ones.

4) The anouncement made on Reddit and not initially made official here until later.

5) The previous bad press from bitter ex-employees

All this is a big shame as its a game we all love.  I see no easy way for this to resolve other than just letting it settle down in time.  NDAs are there for a reason and no one wants their private employment issues airing publicly as it does neither Squad nor the former employees any good going forward,  The community has no choice but to accept this unfortunate situation and that we will never know what happened.  Am I concerned for the future of KSP?  Yes definitely, losing so much experience at once is a big concern but at least Roverdude and a few others are left to pick up the pieces.

 

Edited October 6, 2016 by Kerolyov

[Green Baron]

 

You guys have A LOT of sparetime to spend on nothing.

Are you really so concerned that your favourite toy could be taken from you ? Somehow pathetic.

Even if this was the case that's no excuse for weak accusations and false rumours. Lean back, breathe through the nose and wait for the new release. Or go play something else. Or, maybe, go to work and do something usefull but stop spreading this nonsense.

On topic: 1.2pre makes a very stable impression on me (just a few hours) compared to what was delivered before. A lot of people spent a lot of work on sorting out old issues, apparently they moved on now. Only glitches remained. I'm looking forward to 1.2 and appreciate the work and efforts of all involved.

 

Edited October 6, 2016 by Green Baron

[steve_v]

Am I the only one who finds this whole controversy more than a little ridiculous?
 

[Alewx]

6 minutes ago, Andem said:

And I also think that you're being unnecessarily (and unfairly) harsh towards the community.

I do not see him beeing harsh with the community; but as developer you have to deal with a lot of stuff from the community and at some points it is just enough and you can no longer sit there and smile to everything.
RuderDude has his opinion and that is totally fine.

And for his interaction here he deserves respect because who else labeled as SQUAD said so much?