[Minimum KSP version - 1.12] Kerbal Inventory System (KIS) v1.29

[darthgently]

2 hours ago, Caerfinon said:

Have you tried moving them to the personal stock inventory of a kerbal from the stock container and then using the arrow for deployed science while on EVA to move from personal stock inventory to the ground? Then grab them using KIS.

I'll try that next time it comes up, if it comes up, but I have a feeling that it won't work for orbital construction.  I don't think deployable items will deploy unless landed.  Not sure.  Also not sure that all items have the "deploy" arrow from personal inventory.  I've already reverted to a previous save and relaunched with things reorganized.  Thanks for taking time to think about this though, and I wish I'd thought to try that

I wonder what it is about an item that allows it to be a Cargo Part, but doesn't allow Stock Construction to do anything with it.  Obviously the Cargo Part MM patch isn't enough for it to be used in Stock Construction, but what does make it usable in Stock Construction?  I didn't see a module that would seem to be involved when digging around

Edited August 20, 2021 by darthgently

[IgorZ]

18 hours ago, darthgently said:

I put some joint sockets into Stock inventory slots.  But stock construction won't let me attach them.

The stock system is very picky about what can be stored in the inventory and operated in the flight. If you cannot use the stock inventory, just store the item into the KIS inventory. You won't get the benefits of the stock inflight editor, but you'll still be able to attach the parts.

Edited August 21, 2021 by IgorZ

[darthgently]

10 hours ago, IgorZ said:

The stock system is very picky about what can be stored in the inventory and operated in the flight. If you cannot use the stock inventory, just store the item into the KIS inventory. You won't get the benefits of the stock inflight editor, but you'll still be able to attach the parts.

Yes, it is more the fact that parts that can be stored in Stock Inventory, but can't really be used from Stock Inventory, are a bit confusing until things shake out

[darthgently]

Has anyone had any luck using KIS to construct on the surface using the structural plates?  In the VAB they tend to align edge to edge if you put the cursor right on the edge making assembly fairly easy when making a big flat surface.  But once on the Mun and using KIS they simply won't align edge to edge and only seem to want to attach to the large flat surfaces.  Which wouldn't be a problem if KIS had a way to offset and rotate once placed.  Stock construction doesn't like to handle objects with other objects attached and all my plates had a surface light on them placed in the VAB.  So I tried placing them with KIS then rotating/offsetting them into place using stock.  But, as usual, when I combine stock and KIS construction on the same objects, something derails eventually and something like the kraken's less violent cousin comes to visit.  The offsetting done via stock really seem to confuse KIS if I revisit the same part later with KIS.  Probably the two approaches use different ways to store the part's new position and orientation, or one or both are caching that info and not referring to the same savefile based data. 

Maybe if they both, or even one of them,  flushed all changes to disk and only read from disk?  I don't know. 

I wish KIS could rotate/translate objects without being in "place" mode.  Is there anything I'm missing?

What I know how to do: "R" to select a different node, "W/A/S/D/Q/E" to rotate while placing (but not after placing), and the mouse for "translation" while placing (but not after placing).  "X" to attach, "H" to detach.   The "R" especially seems to not cycle through all nodes on the part, but only toggles between two nodes (the plates have at least 9 attachment nodes, 10 if the center nodes on the two sides are separate; guessing).   "Space" resets all the placement rotations to the initial default.

 

Edited August 27, 2021 by darthgently

[IgorZ]

18 minutes ago, darthgently said:

  In the VAB they tend to align edge to edge if you put the cursor right on the edge making assembly fairly easy when making a big flat surface.  But once on the Mun and using KIS they simply won't align edge to edge and only seem to want to attach to the large flat surfaces.

In KPS all parts are attached via "nodes". KIS uses the opposing orientation of two nodes as the base configuration. From there, you may adjust the offset and rotation to some extent. What you see in VAB is a stock editor aligning functionality. They connect the parts via the nodes too, but in this case editor offers a convince of an automatic alignment. That beings said, until this functionality is explicitly implemented in KIS, making big flat surfaces will be a problem.

In fact, I've just tried to play with it and found that you still may find a good pair of nodes to align the parts. I used SP-S12 as an example. This part has 9 attach nodes, so there are "only" 81 unique combinations   I was able to find a right pair in less than a minute.

Edited August 27, 2021 by IgorZ

[IgorZ]

If you're wondering how KISv2 is progressing, you can checkout the first public release (debug).

[IgorZ]

Finally, the alpha testing of KISv2 has started!

Edited September 5, 2021 by IgorZ

[visssius]

Hello guys!
Sorry for bothering you probably with an over asked question but here is the issue:
So I brought to the space station IMiC-800 container with some EVA repair kits. So since it's a kis container I can't put it in the Kerbal stock inventory to use it. I thought I could use it anyways through the kis inventory but it doesn't recognize it. Is dropping it and than picking it up, with kerbal build mode, the only way to use it?

[IgorZ]

On 10/1/2021 at 8:03 AM, visssius said:

Is dropping it and than picking it up, with kerbal build mode, the only way to use it?

Yes, it's the only way. KISv1 lives completely separate from the stock inventories. It's going to change with KISv2 release, but it's in an early development yet.

[darthgently]

I wonder if it would be possible to put some orientation information on parts being placed in KIS.  Like maybe some fore/top/starboard vector arrows along with numerical labels on the arrows with degrees difference from parent part fore/top/star vectors, or relative to absolute UP, NORTH, etc?  Maybe?  Would really be a great addition in support of good alignment in general and critical for base building in Extraplanetary Launchpads and similar

Edited October 18, 2021 by darthgently

[IgorZ]

10 hours ago, darthgently said:

I wonder if it would be possible to put some orientation information on parts being placed in KIS.  Like maybe some fore/top/starboard vector arrows along with numerical labels on the arrows with degrees difference from parent part fore/top/star vectors, or relative to absolute UP, NORTH, etc?  Maybe?  Would really be a great addition in support of good alignment in general and critical for base building in Extraplanetary Launchpads and similar

By a chance, can you draw a mockup? I'm not sure if I fully understand how it should look like and what's the benefit.

[darthgently]

10 hours ago, IgorZ said:

By a chance, can you draw a mockup? I'm not sure if I fully understand how it should look like and what's the benefit.

Many parts are nearly useless unless one can attach them in a fairly precise orientation and location: RCS, docking ports, etc.  The particular part I was having trouble with is the Extraplanetary Launchpad disposable pad, which allows one to build something that will be attached where the pad is attached once the build is complete.  The pad has colored arrows on it that indicate how the built addition will be oriented, but in KIS placement mode the pad is just a green object with no indication of its orientation.  If stock construction could work with all parts I wouldn't have posted to be honest, but only KIS can place these pads and stock can't rotate/offset them.  The mock-up ideally be would be what you see in stock construction with the rotate and translate tools combined with making the parts details and colors more visible during placement.  Even if KIS doesn't do rotate/translate at the level that stock does, being able to see the details and colors on the part would make KIS mostly useable for these purposes. 

But really, if colors and details of parts during placement are not feasible, then colored arrows indicating the part's +/-TOP, +/-STARBOARD, and +/-FORE vectors from its center would be fine.  What is that game setting that shows your craft control point TOP/STAR/FORE axis?  I know from kOS that all parts have similarly defined axis and if KIS displayed these vectors during placement it would be enough.  I can do it via kOS and I'll make a mock up using that.  I've thought about making a kOS library that does all this but then it would only be available to kOS scripters so thought I'd mention the idea here.  In kOS I was planning on a tiny gui with checkboxes that would allow displaying the part's axis, the soon-to-be parent part's axis, and the craft's axis.   The parent and craft axis would be translated to emit from the center of the placed part so one could easily see any angle difference.  I will mock it up in kOS and reply again or add to this post.

Addenda... Another approach would be socially engineering these parts in other mods to work with stock construction I suppose, but I find KIS far more stable.  I get kraken after stock construction stuff all the time.  I've also noticed that if I offset/translate something with stock construction, then even if my kerb is right next to it later I get the message that he is too far away (even if I move him to where the part was prior to the translate).

[darthgently]

1 hour ago, darthgently said:

Many parts are nearly useless unless one can attach them in a fairly precise orientation and location: RCS, docking ports, etc.  The particular part I was having trouble with is the Extraplanetary Launchpad disposable pad, which allows one to build something that will be attached where the pad is attached once the build is complete.  The pad has colored arrows on it that indicate how the built addition will be oriented, but in KIS placement mode the pad is just a green object with no indication of its orientation.  If stock construction could work with all parts I wouldn't have posted to be honest, but only KIS can place these pads and stock can't rotate/offset them.  The mock-up ideally be would be what you see in stock construction with the rotate and translate tools combined with making the parts details and colors more visible during placement.  Even if KIS doesn't do rotate/translate at the level that stock does, being able to see the details and colors on the part would make KIS mostly useable for these purposes. 

But really, if colors and details of parts during placement are not feasible, then colored arrows indicating the part's +/-TOP, +/-STARBOARD, and +/-FORE vectors from its center would be fine.  What is that game setting that shows your craft control point TOP/STAR/FORE axis?  I know from kOS that all parts have similarly defined axis and if KIS displayed these vectors during placement it would be enough.  I can do it via kOS and I'll make a mock up using that.  I've thought about making a kOS library that does all this but then it would only be available to kOS scripters so thought I'd mention the idea here.  In kOS I was planning on a tiny gui with checkboxes that would allow displaying the part's axis, the soon-to-be parent part's axis, and the craft's axis.   The parent and craft axis would be translated to emit from the center of the placed part so one could easily see any angle difference.  I will mock it up in kOS and reply again or add to this post.

Addenda... Another approach would be socially engineering these parts in other mods to work with stock construction I suppose, but I find KIS far more stable.  I get kraken after stock construction stuff all the time.  I've also noticed that if I offset/translate something with stock construction, then even if my kerb is right next to it later I get the message that he is too far away (even if I move him to where the part was prior to the translate).

Ok I found I couldn't do it with kOS after all because the vectors I draw from the part don't track the "ghost" part KIS uses during placement.  But here are some images with some descriptive text that may be a mock up of sorts

 

Some screen shots with some more info
https://imgur.com/a/25a4mpL

Edited October 19, 2021 by darthgently
updated image link, 4 images now

[Daniel Prates]

People sure like to mix up a lot "inventory" with "attachment".

[IgorZ]

7 hours ago, darthgently said:

Ok I found I couldn't do it with kOS after all because the vectors I draw from the part don't track the "ghost" part KIS uses during placement.  But here are some images with some descriptive text that may be a mock up of sorts

 

Some screen shots with some more info
https://imgur.com/a/25a4mpL

Great! Thanks for this samples. During the KISv2 work I've almost decided to stop using "a ghost" and start using the real part appearance (and as of Apha2 this is the case - no ghost). However, after that I've discovered that it sometimes introduces confusing due to the part being moved and the "ghost part" look too similar. Options (Kowalski)? As of now the "ghost part" is colored with green/red to indicate the state of the attachment/drop action, but it may not be enough. Plus, such coloring may interfere with the part natural appearance.

Out of the scope of this topic. It seems you're a kOS fan. I never used it, so some people who worked with it are very welcome in the KISv2 alpha testing. If I can make the new mod more friendly to kOS, I will.

43 minutes ago, Daniel Prates said:

People sure like to mix up a lot "inventory" with "attachment".

They have an excuse that KIS also allows "attachments". Not to mention, KIS and KAS were once the same mod. KAS should probably be named differently to indicate that it doesn't deal with parts attachments, but instead deals with the vessels connections. Kerbal Vessel Connection System, maybe?

[zer0Kerbal]

44 minutes ago, IgorZ said:

Kerbal Vessel Connection System

the rename is a good idea - might need some kicking around to find the best name. 

[Lisias]

2 hours ago, IgorZ said:

They have an excuse that KIS also allows "attachments". Not to mention, KIS and KAS were once the same mod. KAS should probably be named differently to indicate that it doesn't deal with parts attachments, but instead deals with the vessels connections. Kerbal Vessel Connection System, maybe?

Oh, dear… This is going to be a mess..  There're tons of support already written for KAS, it will be a riot to update them all.   

I'm not saying this is not going to worth the pain, I'm saying that it's going to be a pain - so please consider the consequences to see if it will really worth it.

On a personal note, I think your modus operandi somewhat better than current Stock (at least about what is related to KIS) and I even tried to replace the Stock with KIS instead of having both, but unfortunately I found that I can't remove stock modules without breaking some internal guts of KSP (they hardcoded the support, damn it!).

I'm inclined to think the same about KAS. I would really like a way to replace the Stock support with KIS and KAS, instead of having both system at the same time.

I have successfully replaced a PAW from Firespitter with my own facade to overcome a FS deficiency (i.e., I "hijacked" the event handler from the original, hid it and showed my own instead, that so would update the original seamlessly in a way it would not borks). No Harmony or similar involved, just wise use of the current KSP API.

Perhaps a similar stunt can be accomplished for KIS and KAS? That would solve the confusion too...

[darthgently]

On 10/20/2021 at 1:37 AM, Lisias said:

Oh, dear… This is going to be a mess..  There're tons of support already written for KAS, it will be a riot to update them all.   

I'm not saying this is not going to worth the pain, I'm saying that it's going to be a pain - so please consider the consequences to see if it will really worth it.

On a personal note, I think your modus operandi somewhat better than current Stock (at least about what is related to KIS) and I even tried to replace the Stock with KIS instead of having both, but unfortunately I found that I can't remove stock modules without breaking some internal guts of KSP (they hardcoded the support, damn it!).

I'm inclined to think the same about KAS. I would really like a way to replace the Stock support with KIS and KAS, instead of having both system at the same time.

I have successfully replaced a PAW from Firespitter with my own facade to overcome a FS deficiency (i.e., I "hijacked" the event handler from the original, hid it and showed my own instead, that so would update the original seamlessly in a way it would not borks). No Harmony or similar involved, just wise use of the current KSP API.

Perhaps a similar stunt can be accomplished for KIS and KAS? That would solve the confusion too...

Maybe just need to come up with something that KAS stands for instead of Kerbal Attachment System , lol.  How about Kerbals Attaching Ships (together)? ha.  Or Konnecting and Associating Ships?

[Nertea]

Hey @IgorZ, I've been trying to sort out this inability of players using KIS to put kerbals with inventory items into the expandable SSPX containers. Might need some help. You had previously given me some advice that it could be done in config, but I can't seem to make it work - here's what I'm doing: https://github.com/post-kerbin-mining-corporation/StationPartsExpansionRedux/blob/40e6482edde2c6630df5aa59430c4d7c186348e0/GameData/StationPartsExpansionRedux/Patches/SSPXR-KIS.cfg#L152

Help appreciated!

 

[Malcymalc]

Apologies if this is a stupid question but I've returned to KSP after a few years away and I'm very new to KIS

I've sent a repair ship to the Mun to do a couple of satellite repair missions, after collecting an engineer from my space station. While at the station Bill successfully conducted repairs using parts brought up by a different supply ship. Before setting out I loaded the repair ship in the VAB with a surfeit of the repair supplies, spare parts and tools necessary to do the jobs. When I arrived at the first satellite I can see everything in the  "normal" inventory - but the KIS inventory is empty of everything but an EVA resupply tank. I can't transfer parts between the two, or grab something that isn't there. I read the KIS User Guide before starting the mission and can't see any mention of anything that might address this problem. What dumb user error have I committed?

[IgorZ]

1 hour ago, Malcymalc said:

Apologies if this is a stupid question but I've returned to KSP after a few years away and I'm very new to KIS

I've sent a repair ship to the Mun to do a couple of satellite repair missions, after collecting an engineer from my space station. While at the station Bill successfully conducted repairs using parts brought up by a different supply ship. Before setting out I loaded the repair ship in the VAB with a surfeit of the repair supplies, spare parts and tools necessary to do the jobs. When I arrived at the first satellite I can see everything in the  "normal" inventory - but the KIS inventory is empty of everything but an EVA resupply tank. I can't transfer parts between the two, or grab something that isn't there. I read the KIS User Guide before starting the mission and can't see any mention of anything that might address this problem. What dumb user error have I committed?

The KIS and stock inventory systems are not working together. They are two different systems. If you put stuff into the stock inventory, you have to use the stock functionality to use it. If you put stuff into KIS, you can only use KIS functionality. The only way of moving stuff between the inventories is dropping the parts on the ground and then picking them up in the right inventory mode. However, there will be a lot of edge cases.

You may want to join the KISv2 alpha testing which addresses it, but it's only an ALPHA. Such versions don't have enough stability to be used in the carrier games.

[notsure_]

hi, i use this mod and have problem with "concrete base".

i have mounted it on  planet surface, with "x" or "h" button. i have built on it a floor and other objects. All is fine. 

THAN

save - load, or exit to space centre, or exit to any scren AND BACK to building - causing unplug concrete base from surfase, all construction falling from first second after game have loaded.  Or construction is hovering under surface and trying move on it makes kerbal "in flight" infinite state of being.

Game version is latest 1.12.  Addon version latest - 1.28.  

do u know about this bug? i can make screenshots if it help u to solve.

[IgorZ]

 

On 11/18/2021 at 11:13 AM, notsure_ said:

do u know about this bug? i can make screenshots if it help u to solve.

Yes, it's a known bug that is not going to be fixed. Squad team has significantly changed physics in the game in the last year. The static attach thing in KIS is no more reliable. Avoid using it.

[rudemario]

On 5/27/2021 at 1:52 AM, IgorZ said:

Tried to do it on place, and did notice a 500ms jitter. Never noticed it before because I usually don't start camera rotation afterwards. A half of a second delay doesn't seem reasonable in this operation. I'll investigate it. Created a ticket: https://github.com/ihsoft/KIS/issues/396.

This is exactly the card I'm hunting for. I'm in the EVGA notification list since December

Hey there, Igor! I hope all is well.

I was wondering if you ever figured out what was causing this delay I mentioned back in May? I noticed that the ticket doesn't have any updates on it, so was wondering if maybe you made a discovery on it but hadn't documented it.

I ask because I'm at a point in my save now where I'm using KIS/KAS a lot, and like we noticed before, placing/attaching etc has a large delay (and this delay seems to increase for me with additional mods from the 500ms to 2 seconds ) It's becoming a real pain.

I understand I'm making it worse, of course, with the additional mods and all that, but maybe an improvement in the base 500ms jitter might solve my issue as well, considering it's the core of the issue.

 

Also, did you ever get that Graphics card you were hunting for? Hope so. I can't imagine it's easier for you now with the Holiday season upon us. Did the EVGA Notification list treat you well?

 

Thanks Igor! Just was wondering, don't mean to be a bother about the issue.

[darthgently]

I know this has been addressed in the past, but things may have changed.  I have many KIS EVA propellant tanks in various inventories and am wondering if they have functionality now or should I ditch them?