[1.4+] BETA: Kerbal Attachment System (KAS) v1.0 Release Candidate 1

[cgwhite4]

Update to KAS 0.7.3 complete.  Main save file edited as indicated.  Loading my bases on Duna and Eve did not result in any problems despite having left the connections intact.  As a precaution, went to the VAB and performed a remove and replace on all JS-1's and TJ-2's for all applicable vehicles.  Main save file updated.  I'll just have to be careful not to try to switch to my bases on Eve or Duna if I have to do anything in an older save (such as look for a known good copy of a base like the one I have on Gilly to repair/"de-Kraken" it in a newer save via SFS-edit).

Strangely, I was blocked from deleting KAS 0.7.2 until I closed one of my saves which had been open in Notepad++ for SFS-editing related to my Eve base renovation.  Normally, Notepad++ does not cause file lock/conflict issues, but instead waits until you return to it and then prompts you to update.  The save in question was not my main save, but did contain parts from 0.7.2.  Anyone using Notepad++ for SFS-editing should close all save files with KAS 0.7.2 (or close Notepad++ itself) before attempting to update.  I suspect the same will be true of other text editors as well.

Edit: With my main focus now on Dres, my Extraplanetary Launchpads supported base on Ike now ready, and bad interplanetary angles for all three of my best launch sites (Ike, Minmus, Gilly) with respect to Dres, at least 1 more rover including KAS 1.0 Beta parts should soon be sent to my base on Duna.  I should soon have some idea if the issues I ran into on Eve (particularly, connections breaking during "physics easing") were mainly due to specific conditions there (either Eve itself, or the combination of winch and TJ-2 based connections in the same group of rovers during the remodel).  My check of my Eve base after updating to 0.7.3 did not cause a broken connection (at this point, all winch connections have been removed), and I am hoping that the issue turns out to be that the old and new connection types should not be used in the same group.

Edit #2: Perhaps I spoke a little too soon.  While approaching my Duna base with my RollingWorkshop rover, I received a red "Unable to Restore Link: KAS-TJ2" message upon coming within 200 meters of my RollingAuger and RollingForge (which were connected together).  The connection had broken, albeit failing to produce the crunching sound that normally accompanies a connection breaking.  The two rovers were still within range of each other and neither was violating angle constraints.  The other pair of rovers I have at that base (RollingDrill and RollingRefinery) did not experience the same anomaly, and I suspect I know what is going on.  If I recall correctly, the RollingAuger was created before KAS 0.7.3 was released and the RollingForge came after it.  It appears that pre-existing TJ-2's and JS-1's that have been updated to 0.7.3 work with each other, but may be partially incompatible (can connect, but cannot remain connected when reloaded) with JS-1's and TJ-2's (respectively) that were created after the update.

Edit #3: It gets even stranger.  Upon connecting the RollingWorkshop to the RollingForge and then switching to the RollingAuger via the tracking station, the connection between the former two also failed in the same manner.  Did an EVA as a workaround and was able to continue as planned, but I suspect this will give me more trouble at such point as the Launchpad rover should arrive and everything need to be hooked up.  No longer sure partial incompatibility is the explanation: one or the other of the two links in question would be affected, but not both.

Edited February 19, 2017 by cgwhite4
further information

[Acenthyl]

ACTUALLY KAS DOSNT WORK! I install KSP new, copy KIS in Game Data and extract, Copy KAS 0.6.2 in Game Data and extract - and get Errors! 

[Acea]

Just now, Acenthyl said:

ACTUALLY KAS DOSNT WORK! I install KSP new, copy KIS in Game Data and extract, Copy KAS 0.6.2 in Game Data and extract - and get Errors! 

Please provide enough information like KSP.log and version info so that you can get necessary help.

[Acenthyl]

that was fast - i collect all Informations for you (with screenshots) this take a while, thanks foward

[cgwhite4]

Acenthyl: There are currently two version of KAS running concurrently, as IgorZ prepares to transition to KAS 1.0.  This is actually the thread for KAS Beta (currently 0.7.3).  It looks like the issue you are reporting is with the old version of KAS (0.6.2).  If so, this is not the correct thread, and your issue should instead be posted in the thread for KAS 0.6.2.  Any post by IgorZ in this thread should contain a link to the correct thread.  When you get the information you are looking for, you should probably transfer the conversation about your issue to the thread for KAS 0.6.2 if the issue pertains to 0.6.2 instead of 0.7.3, restating the problem on that thread to avoid confusion.

[cgwhite4]

Would have simply edited my previous post, but this is not directed at Acenthyl (or anyone in particular), and is unrelated to the above.  After successfully landing on Tylo and putting a station on the surface, I have decided to use rovers similar to those I have on Eve and Duna for the base infrastructure on Tylo, instead of the winch-connected modules I normally use.  This is mainly due to the need for retropropulsion pretty much all the way down from the 45km altitude orbit I generally use, which means like for celestial objects with atmospheres (Eve, Duna and Laythe) that I will not be able to achieve the precision needed to rely on the winch-connected modules.  Two of these rovers should be deployed relatively soon (and will be attached to each other upon arrival at their destination), so I should have some more test data for the new connection system at that point.

Edit: It may take longer than I thought: I am having difficulty with landing the rovers.  I have side-mounted two boosters onto the first rover for use in the final descent, but the truss decoupler does not put them far enough away to clear the rover's drills.  I have a tried a couple things to get them farther away, but each time they end up snapping off during the earliest portion of the de-orbit burn, when the rocket responsible for the bulk of the deployment process still has its booster rockets attached (it is being sent from my Extraplanetary Launchpads supported base on Pol).  I am trying to figure out how to strengthen the connection so that it will survive until the boosters burn out and are jettisoned, at which point there will only be the force from 1 mammoth engine instead of 7 to deal with.  Until I get it right, I will not be able to safely deploy the rovers: Tylo's gravity is strong enough that landing them with a rocket underneath and then trying to release them from on top of the rocket would likely result in significant damage, if not Rapid Unscheduled Disassembly.

Edit #2: Managed to reinforce the connection with autostruts, and get the first 2 rovers down safely.  They are now attached to each other.  So far, no anomalies.

Edited May 6, 2017 by cgwhite4
Update

[IgorZ]

A quick update on the project. I'm still working on it  It's not abandoned or suspended. There are no new releases because I'm making a huge internal refactoring to make the winches and the refueling station to work without hacks and workarounds. After all, one of the main purposes of this project was go away from the limitations which the old code applied.

As an intermediate result of the refactoring efforts a better API help was created. It's much more cute and complete than the initial version. But, of course, it's not final since the project itself is not yet complete.

By the way. Please, let me know, if you're interested to see a comprehensive documentation on coding for KAS. I'm going to provide some docs anyways, but if there are many people who are going to use it then I'll put extra efforts to make it more readable and useful.

[IgorZ]

A question to the English native speakers. What a technical term is best describing the part we know as "winch"? I've seen things that look exactly like a "winch" but they are called "hoist"? So, what do we attach to our vessel in KPS?

[Merkov]

23 minutes ago, IgorZ said:

A question to the English native speakers. What a technical term is best describing the part we know as "winch"? I've seen things that look exactly like a "winch" but they are called "hoist"? So, what do we attach to our vessel in KPS?

In my experience, a hoist typically refers to something that specifically lifts or pulls something upward. A winch doesn't really have that limit in its use. That is, I don't think anything is wrong with describing the device that retracts a cable under a helicopter to lift something as a winch, but it would be odd to say that a car stuck in a ditch was pulled out by another vehicle using a hoist. 

Personally, I think winch is a perfectly good word to use. It accurately describes the part without being too specific to narrow its intended use, and it's a proper word, not slang or anything like that.

[cgwhite4]

I concur with Merkov: winch is the correct term in this case.  Furthermore, I do not recall noticing any linguistic issues with KAS or KAS Beta.

[TheRagingIrishman]

I agree with @Merkov and @cgwhite4

[SpannerMonkey(smce)]

And I'll agree with the former posters regarding the part title, it is indeed a winch. and not a hoist, 

   In my trade a winch usually forms only part of the gear required to perform a task, whereas a hoist is generally a standalone unit that needs no extra equipment . Even the 40tonne winch cable is usually run through snatch blocks, before being connected to the object to be pulled, it's very rare to connect direct to the main cable eye

[Nergal8617]

I have to agree, it is a winch not a hoist.

Edit: Pulling some info from wikipedia; " A winch is a mechanical device that is used to pull in (wind up) or let out (wind out) or otherwise adjust the "tension" of a rope or wire rope (also called "cable" or "wire cable". In its simplest form it consists of a spool attached to a hand crank. In larger forms, winches stand at the heart of machines as diverse as tow trucks, steam shovels and elevators."  " A hoist is a device used for lifting or lowering a load by means of a drum or lift-wheel around which rope or chain wraps."

So in other words a winch is used to apply tension to a cable, a hoist is a specific device for raising or lowering a load.

Edited May 12, 2017 by Nergal8617

[IgorZ]

Guys, thank you very much for the responses. It will be "winch" in KAS 1.0

17 hours ago, cgwhite4 said:

Furthermore, I do not recall noticing any linguistic issues with KAS or KAS Beta.

Let's assume you've opened a context menu on a winch. Which menu title will you consider more correct from the both the technical and the linguistic standpoints: "Retract", "Retract the cable", or "Retract cable"? Or you have your own version?

Disclaimer. Of course, none of these "issues" is a blocker  I'm just trying to educate myself a bit.

Edited May 13, 2017 by IgorZ

[Nergal8617]

"Retract Cable" would probably be the best bet.  While using just "Retract" or "Extend" for the opposite is both technically and linguistically correct, adding "Cable" removes possible confusion as to what the button actually does.

[Benjamin Kerman]

I agree with @Nergal8617: Retract Cable is short and to the point with no extra words, but disspells any confusion. (Hint to @SQUAD, some of the jet engine options are confusing in this way!)

[Angelo Kerman]

Just wanted to say that because of all the hard work on KAS, I can do this:

Very much appreciated.

[onlinegamesz]

Is this the continued version of KAS, does the KAS 0.62 thread not get updated anymore?

 

18 hours ago, Angel-125 said:

Just wanted to say that because of all the hard work on KAS, I can do this:

Very much appreciated.

Amazing man, what mods did you use for this? 

[Angelo Kerman]

11 minutes ago, onlinegamesz said:

Is this the continued version of KAS, does the KAS 0.62 thread not get updated anymore?

 

Amazing man, what mods did you use for this? 

MOLE and Buffalo in that screenshot, in addition to KAS.

[IgorZ]

3 hours ago, onlinegamesz said:

Is this the continued version of KAS, does the KAS 0.62 thread not get updated anymore?

For now KAS 1.0 is parallel to KAS 0.6.2. Once it's out of the beta stage, the old KAS support will be discontinued.

[IgorZ]

KAS 1.0 Beta5 (v0.7.4)

 ihsoft released this 10 minutes ago

0.7.4 (May 26th, 2017):

• [Enhancement] A brand new model for CH-1.
• [Enhancement] PCB-1 cable now has a head that plugs into CH-1 model.
• KSP 1.3 support.

[Drew Kerman]

I ran out of likes for today but then I noticed your rep number and was like

[cgwhite4]

Drew Kerman: IgorZ has now reached 667 reputation points, so feel free to give him one without worrying about putting him on a "bestial" number of reputation points (nor does he need one from anyone to move himself off that mark).  You'll only be moving him farther from it now, as I doubt many people would be interested in retracting reputation points from the maker of KAS and KIS.

[IgorZ]

Hey, guys! Finally, I've made a good progress on the winches. For now they are the main blockers for the feature parity with the old KAS. In spite of the module is not yet 100% done, it's somehow working. I wanted to share a sneak peek with you:

 

 

[V8jester]

On June 4, 2017 at 3:47 AM, IgorZ said:

Hey, guys! Finally, I've made a good progress on the winches. For now they are the main blockers for the feature parity with the old KAS. In spite of the module is not yet 100% done, it's somehow working. I wanted to share a sneak peek with you:

....

Igor, out of curiosity. Will the 1.0 winches be stronger at there connections? (At either the cable or the winch itself)

Currently in regular KAS the winches have been very easy to tear from there mounts or rip the cables out of the ports, since 1.2.1 or so.

I was able to increase the breaking force on the ports, effectively making them indestructible. But I haven't identified a fix for the winches themselves.