fix the runway please!

[yog-sothoth]

the runway is slightly off-centre from 90 degrees and there are a few bumps in the runway, both of which have ruined my takeoffs in the past. this applies to all 3 runway levels. is there any hance of fixing this?

Spoiler

 

 

id post pictures but i dont know how.

[EpicSpaceTroll139]

4 hours ago, yog-sothoth said:

the runway is slightly off-centre from 90 degrees and there are a few bumps in the runway, both of which have ruined my takeoffs in the past.

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Slightly off center from 90 degrees? What? Could you elaborate? 

The runway is aligned East-West.

If you're talking about it not being exactly on the equator, then, well, yeah, AFAIK the equator runs inbetween the runway and the launchpad (or under the launchpad, I'm not quite sure which). But that shouldn't affect your planes taking off. They're spawned pointing down the runway, and you're given controls to steer your plane with. If your plane is going off the side of the runway, I'd be inclined to think it was a problem with the plane, pilot, or both.

As for the bumps:

I think I may know what you're talking about. They're really small (like mm) ledges at the edges of sections of the runway. I've only had one plane be affected by them before (a massive A-380 replica), and it needed more struts to support its own weight anyways. On the first tier runway though it is very bumpy by design, promoting low speed taildragger aircraft. However this seems silly to me since the grass next to it is smoother.

 

As for adding images, upload them to an image hosting website (try imgur, you don't even need an account there), move your mouse over the upper right-hand* corner of your picture once it's on there, copy the URL it gives you, go to "insert other media"->"insert image from URL" in your forum post, and paste the URL in the box. Add ".jpg" to the end, hit enter and your picture should show up!

[Vanamonde]

To display a game screenshot here, upload it to a file-sharing service such as Imgur.com, and copy the link they provide into your post. 

[yog-sothoth]

thanks. they arent spawned pointing exactly down the runway, though.

[Jonfliesgoats]

The planes spawn on a 090 heading.  Once the physics engine kicks on, a little after you see your plane, it settles onto its landing gear, weight gets distributed among parts, etc.  This sometimes causes a little bit of heading change.  Beefier landing gear and a stiffened airplane design should fix this problem.

[EpicSpaceTroll139]

8 hours ago, yog-sothoth said:

thanks. they arent spawned pointing exactly down the runway, though.

Like @Jonfliesgoats said, the planes do spawn pointing exactly down the runway (assuming it's not turned in some other direction in the SPH), but various things can cause the plane to jitter to a imperfect heading as physics kicks in.

That being as it is, we have steering, so it shouldn't matter. 

Expecting the plane to go dead straight all the way down the runway would be kind of like me taking my hands off the steering wheel of my car and expecting it to stay in the lane (forget about self driving cars). Even on a straight road, as would be the assumption, it's just not going to happen. It will inevitably drift over to one side or another. Which is why I keep my hands on the wheel! 

[tg626]

9 hours ago, yog-sothoth said:

thanks. they arent spawned pointing exactly down the runway, though.

Only if kept pointing exactly at the hanger door I think...

[Wjolcz]

Teh runway is bumpy because it's how it's meant to be played and also its very kerbal and if u don't liek it don't play it am i rite or am i rite???? PLZ DONT FORCE ME TO PLAY TEH GAEM TEH WAY U WANT OKKKKKK?????

It's one of the curiosities I will never understand. The bumps render the runway useless in the lower tiers. Upgrades should affect it's length, not smoothness.

[Alshain]

24 minutes ago, Veeltch said:

Teh runway is bumpy because it's how it's meant to be played and also its very kerbal and if u don't liek it don't play it am i rite or am i rite???? PLZ DONT FORCE ME TO PLAY TEH GAEM TEH WAY U WANT OKKKKKK?????

It's one of the curiosities I will never understand. The bumps render the runway useless in the lower tiers. Upgrades should affect it's length, not smoothness.

I'm not sure those are even the bumps he was talking about.  There are 'disconnects' in the runway (and other terrain) in 1.2 that were not there before in 1.1.  They affect all 3 tiers.  They were reported in pre-release but did not get fixed.

Edited October 29, 2016 by Alshain

[tg626]

On 10/28/2016 at 9:46 AM, yog-sothoth said:

This block is not a quote and is brought to you by the forums crappy mobile support...

44 minutes ago, Veeltch said:

Updates should affect it's length, not smoothness.

I'd say, length and material. Dirt, coral, asphalt, concrete, each one able to handle a heavier object on its surface. Oh and tier1 and tier2 no lights.  Tier4 adds approach lights to what's already there. 

Edited October 29, 2016 by tg626

[Alshain]

32 minutes ago, tg626 said:

I'd say, length and material. Dirt, coral, asphalt, concrete, each one able to handle a heavier object on its surface. Oh and tier1 and tier2 no lights.  Tier4 adds approach lights to what's already there. 

coral?  I know they exist but those are special cases.  Besides that, coral runways are still paved with asphalt or concrete.  Grass would be a more logical 1st tier, but grass would actually need to have the properties of grass for that to be effective, which it doesn't.

Edited October 29, 2016 by Alshain

[tg626]

Afaik, coral was used like crushed stone, and there's an ocean right there.

Whatever, you get the idea, different materials, different lengths, different lights, different weight/part limits, all smooth.

And coral was a common airstrip material in the Pacific in WWII, I'd imagine because it drained and was mined on site.

[Superfluous J]

5 hours ago, Alshain said:

I'm not sure those are even the bumps he was talking about.  There are 'disconnects' in the runway (and other terrain) in 1.2 that were not there before in 1.1.  They affect all 3 tiers.  They were reported in pre-release but did not get fixed.

This is the first time I realized that I've not launched a plane in 1.2

[StahnAileron]

The Level 1 Runway is just dirt and meant to be bumpy. For the Level 3 runway at least, there were several consolidated reports made to the bug tracker during pre-release about misaligned model segments. (I submitted one of those reports.) The devs apparently wanted to focus on other things. Personally, it's a little annoying from an OCD viewpoint, but it's not really game-breaking unless you build vessels that tend to go nuts on you at the slightest provocation.

The runway is perfectly aligned on a ninety-degree heading. What it isn't is placed on the zero-degree latitude (a.k.a. the equator). That position is where the Launchpad is placed. If you want a perfectly aligned zero-degree inclination runway, it'd have to intersect the Launchpad some how. Personally, I don't think anyone wants a runway inline with their Launchpad. (Or maybe they do; easier to set up "accidents"...) I do kinda wish KSC had a secondary launch runway at like 350 degrees for polar orbit runway launches.

If you're talking about in-flight alignment during/after take-off, you need better yaw stability, wheel traction/friction, or (tuned) SAS capacity due to how physics works. As noted, it could be a vessel drift problem after loading.

[Capt. Hunt]

yeah, it's much more useful to have the launch pad exactly on the equator then the runway, since most early career players are going to be using that more.

It occurred to me that one potential reason for the "bumps" in the runway (and probably something that can't be fixed easily) is that the runway is a 3d model, it's made of polygons, what's more, it's on a sphere surface and it's long enough that the curvature of that sphere has a perceptible effect on the "flatness" of the runway.  If it were perfectly "flat," gravity would make objects roll toward the center of the runway.  Unfortunately, because it's not flat, and polygons cannot be curved, there will be edges where two polys meet.

[Alshain]

51 minutes ago, StahnAileron said:

but it's not really game-breaking unless you build vessels that tend to go nuts on you at the slightest provocation.

So basically anything using stock landing gear.

[Jarin]

I have been running an aircraft-only career in 1.2 and the runway seems fine to me. I could launch basic "bushplane" style aircraft from the tier 1, and I've been tossing some pretty big aircraft off of the tier 2 runway without any difficulty. Is the tier 2 in a weird sweet spot and I'm going to start seeing gaps in the tier 3? I need to know if I should avoid upgrading...

Edited October 30, 2016 by Jarin

[Grease1991]

2 hours ago, Capt. Hunt said:

yeah, it's much more useful to have the launch pad exactly on the equator then the runway, since most early career players are going to be using that more.

It occurred to me that one potential reason for the "bumps" in the runway (and probably something that can't be fixed easily) is that the runway is a 3d model, it's made of polygons, what's more, it's on a sphere surface and it's long enough that the curvature of that sphere has a perceptible effect on the "flatness" of the runway.  If it were perfectly "flat," gravity would make objects roll toward the center of the runway.  Unfortunately, because it's not flat, and polygons cannot be curved, there will be edges where two polys meet.

Unless they changed it, the runway is perfectly flat, and i've had planes roll to the center of it before, but again the last update that i've binged on was 1.0.5 

[Jonfliesgoats]

IRL there are a lot of different runway surfaces and qualities.  Former Soviet runways, while concrete, are much bumpier than others.  Some runways are crowned and grooved while others aren't.  Coral, gravel, pierced steel planking, grass, dirt are all still quite common for smaller airports.  Bumpy runways or soft runways that get a little grabby with main wheels are real.  If you land in some places with modern jet service the concrete will still rattle your teeth as you go over heaving segments of pavement. 

As to whether runway quality is or was a factor in the development of high performance aircraft and space craft, it was and is!  Muroch Dry lake bed was a dry lake bed.  Airplanes would break through surfaces.  Tires would blow.  Runways had to be improved to accomodate higher performance airplanes.  The soviets made operations from dirt a prerrequisite of even their most advanced jet fighters.

The nasty runway at tier one is a nod to difficulties we faced in having landing surfaces evolve with our aircraft.

[Vanamonde]

About half of this thread's posts have been removed, since they had nothing to do with KSP. Please keep the discussions on-topic, people. 

[Vorg]

I agree that the T1 runway is WAY too bumpy. And being raised up like it is just makes it even worse to use. Basicly, it's in the way. Better off using the ground around it. More room, no steep sloped edge and smoother.

[yog-sothoth]

im refering to all levels of runway.

[Vanamonde]

Seriously, people. Toilet jokes and coral have nothing to do with KSP. Now please keep the discussion on-topic. 

[StahnAileron]

18 hours ago, Alshain said:

So basically anything using stock landing gear.

LoL. To a degree, I suppose. I don't particularly like the stock gears (bulky and kinda ugly), but I have to use them while I wait for an update to Adjustable Landing Gear (which is probably a bit far off, considering the mod workload the new caretaker has.)

I've only used the smaller gears on relatively light vessels, so it hasn't been a horrible experience yet. Though I do find the default settings on the low side. I usually have to crank the sliders up to get handling I'm comfortable with. Otherwise, no issues with the wheels and interaction with the runways yet. I'm only on the T2 runway at this point as well, so I can't comment on the T3 runway yet. (I haven't started a sandbox game yet.)

I do wish there were more landing gear mods. ALG was sorta the be-all, end-all landing gear mod, I supposed, hence the dearth of landing gears. (Though landing legs don't have that problem...)

[brusura]

runway is made of segments, where those segments come in contact there is a bump , also at the end of railroad to rocket launcher, even more noticeable

Dunno why it is not a single mesh