Piston Jet Engine (Motor Only)

[ZooNamedGames]

So I was bored one day and decided to make a prop motor in KSP. So far I ended up with this-

 

So far it somewhat spins. It also tends to slide from it's mount a bit forward and once it reaches the thinnest part of the neck it falls back. The concept is somewhat sound but there's obvious room for improvement. Maybe someone here could spot out an obvious fault.

 

It's pretty simple to use; just stage upon load to the runway and then after activing the internal engines, undock the internal docking port and watch it spin! Again sometimes it gets caught and it seems sometime that the second engine gets choked and doesn't get enough air turning the entire contraption into a fancy sparkler. Don't stage the launch clamp.

This ideally would be expanded into an aircraft which would use it to fly ("but Zoo why not put those engines on the wings or download FireSpitter" THAT ISN'T THE POINT).

 

https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B0GVLJwOLVGyM1REU1dLTG5PbDg/view?usp=sharing

[Azimech]

I appreciate the effort. Unfortunately to be practical (meaning it can propel an airplane) would require a redesign to the last bolt and even then it's unlikely an airplane will ever take off with it.

Using wings in such a way as a bearing is unfeasible due to friction values of the colliders. Besides, drag is high too.

The mass of the shaft is very high due to all the fuel it carries.

The engines aren't able to really pack a punch, again due to mass and thrust angle/torque/drag. Even the electric engines have a better TWR.

There's no control method, the shaft lacks a probe core.

 

Compared to even the weakest stock turboprops, this concept has limitations which make it unrealistic to ever power an airplane.

 

[ZooNamedGames]

24 minutes ago, Azimech said:

I appreciate the effort. Unfortunately to be practical (meaning it can propel an airplane) would require a redesign to the last bolt and even then it's unlikely an airplane will ever take off with it.

Using wings in such a way as a bearing is unfeasible due to friction values of the colliders. Besides, drag is high too.

The mass of the shaft is very high due to all the fuel it carries.

The engines aren't able to really pack a punch, again due to mass and thrust angle/torque/drag. Even the electric engines have a better TWR.

There's no control method, the shaft lacks a probe core.

 

Compared to even the weakest stock turboprops, this concept has limitations which make it unrealistic to ever power an airplane.

 

Then let's improve it. I dislike when people say "it's not possible" about a build in KSP because every time you do; someone does it. 

That said, let's fix as much as we can. 

I've seen people make helicopters in stock KSP- all that needs to be done is rotate that on its side.

[Azimech]

Go ahead, I'd like to see what you'll come up with. I won't invest more time though, too many projects.

[ZooNamedGames]

12 minutes ago, Azimech said:

Go ahead, I'd like to see what you'll come up with. I won't invest more time though, too many projects.

Well thank you for essentially doing nothing for my build other than point out its flaws and leave.

[Azimech]

There's a simple reason. I invented the stock turboprop/turboshaft engine. I've built hundreds of these engines, powering the fastest airplanes and heaviest helicopters, and I know the limitations of a lot of bearings, power/weight ratio's and KSP limitations. Although I like your experiment and I hope you'll continue to create stuff, I don't believe in this concept, at all. So you have the freedom to try, just don't expect me to invest time in it.

[ZooNamedGames]

35 minutes ago, Azimech said:

There's a simple reason. I invented the stock turboprop/turboshaft engine. I've built hundreds of these engines, powering the fastest airplanes and heaviest helicopters, and I know the limitations of a lot of bearings, power/weight ratio's and KSP limitations. Although I like your experiment and I hope you'll continue to create stuff, I don't believe in this concept, at all. So you have the freedom to try, just don't expect me to invest time in it.

I've made many things myself in KSP. They'll just always be mediocre and a poor excuse for the space on the forum.

Edited November 6, 2016 by ZooNamedGames

[klond]

 Hello fellow engineer.  Nice to see a different take on things.  Keep at it.

[Heckspress]

14 hours ago, ZooNamedGames said:

I've made many things myself in KSP. They'll just always be mediocre and a poor excuse for the space on the forum.

don't be so hard on urself fam

[Majorjim!]

I too look forward to seeing what comes of this creation! Keep working at it man, as you say nothing is impossible!

[EpicSpaceTroll139]

Nice work! Always glad to see a turbohead in training! You might want to try using a wheeled bearing for lower friction. Or even maybe some kind of antenna bearing. @Majorjim! shows how to create thermometer-antenna bearings in this thread. A stronger variant can be created by replacing the thermometers with solar panels (placed on edge, so they form a disk of sorts). You will need at least two of them in line to keep the axle from wobbling though.

[life_on_venus]

Hey, glad you could join the League of extraordinary gentlemen! In all seriousness, we post stuff in this thread:

I haven't even made a turboshaft engine capable of taking a plane or helicopter off yet! I am working on some cool cars though.

Your turboshaft may not be practical for powering an aircraft, but within it you have made a bearing. That's really the first step in anything mechanical in KSP. You've proven to yourself you can make cool stuff and that's great. You could probably use your turboshaft for decoration too.

I guess it's probably easier if I tell you about some of the stuff you're gonna find in that thread, and put it all in one place:

* Bearings made with wheels are usually a bit temperamental compared to wheelless ones

* For wheeled bearings try using spring and damper settings of 2 & 0.7 respectively on your landing gear

* To make a wheelless bearing, place a Stayputnik Probe inside of a Structural Fuselage

* To make your turboshaft move, put paddles of some kind around the shaft, and use jet engines on the frame of the turboshaft to blow onto the paddles

Most importantly, Have Fun!

- Venus

[EpicSpaceTroll139]

6 hours ago, life_on_venus said:

Your turboshaft may not be practical for powering an aircraft

Stock turboshaft? Practical? 

Maybe for short range, heavylift skycrane purposes, but that's a pretty niche use. 

Perhaps a more appropriate way to say it is "more impractical than others"

Edited November 7, 2016 by EpicSpaceTroll139

[life_on_venus]

1 hour ago, EpicSpaceTroll139 said:

Stock turboshaft? Practical? 

Maybe for short range, heavylift skycrane purposes, but that's a pretty niche use. 

Perhaps a more appropriate way to say it is "more impractical than others"

You're right of course, but goddamn it this is 1928, gasoline is free!:

http://imgur.com/qrSFzq3

[Azimech]

3 hours ago, EpicSpaceTroll139 said:

Stock turboshaft? Practical? 

 

It's not even a turboshaft ... it's the exact opposite and the reason I invented the turboshaft. But with those old anti-turboshaft designs the engines were sitting on the tips of the blade and it made sense, the torque outweighed the drag & mass.

[EpicSpaceTroll139]

40 minutes ago, Azimech said:

It's not even a turboshaft ... it's the exact opposite and the reason I invented the turboshaft. But with those old anti-turboshaft designs the engines were sitting on the tips of the blade and it made sense, the torque outweighed the drag & mass.

turboshaft (tûrˈbō-shăftˌ)

• n.
  A gas turbine engine that powers a rotating cylindrical shaft

Looks like it fits the definition.

[life_on_venus]

Technically my shaft is shaped like an I-Beam xD

[Majorjim!]

Just now, Azimech said:

It's not even a turboshaft ..

There is no such thing in KSP. The thing you like to repeatedly remind everyone you 'invented' is more like a water wheel. 

 

[Azimech]

13 minutes ago, EpicSpaceTroll139 said:

turboshaft (tûrˈbō-shăftˌ)

• n.
  A gas turbine engine that powers a rotating cylindrical shaft

Looks like it fits the definition.

Yeah, in the real world. In the real world a turboshaft is a turbine engine using a gearbox to reduce output shaft speed, turboprop more often than not. But this is kerbal and if you don't mind, I really do not like the concept of this engine to be labeled as being a turboshaft, as explained before. If you look at the details, also my engine is not a true turboshaft but it's still a whole lot better than putting jet engines on a shaft, named a turboshaft would ridicule all the hard work all of us have done in the last few years.

[Majorjim!]

Just now, Azimech said:

Yeah, in the real world. In the real world a turboshaft is a turbine engine using a gearbox to reduce output shaft speed, turboprop more often than not. But this is kerbal and if you don't mind, I really do not like the concept of this engine to be labeled as being a turboshaft, as explained before. If you look at the details, also my engine is not a true turboshaft but it's still a whole lot better than putting jet engines on a shaft, named a turboshaft would ridicule all the hard work all of us have done in the last few years.

Dude, relax..

[Azimech]

1 minute ago, Majorjim! said:

There is no such thing in KSP. The thing you like to repeatedly remind everyone you 'invented' is more like a water wheel. 

 

So, and what you 'invented' is something you tell anyone as well. You placed a collection of parts in a pattern and called it a bearing, you've done a great job at that but you stopped at that point.

In the mean time my "waterwheel" underwent many major redesigns and saw the efficiency rise from 4% to 28% during 0.90. I invented a thrust measuring device (the ONLY one in the KSP world), was the first to introduce propeller pitch control, invented multistage boost control, invented the stock double sided open bearing and invented the stock coaxial turboshaft engine. I've got the speed record for turboprop airplanes and lost it only for a few days ever since Februari 2015.

So with this I claim the word turboshaft/turboprop as being mine in the KSP world.

Thank you and good night.

[Deddly]

Hi everyone, I invented something called "let's stop blowing our own trumpets for a moment and insulting each others' work whilst derailing a perfectly valid topic and let's instead stick to the topic and be friendly and helpful to each other".

Do you think it'll catch on?

[Deddly]

A few new posts were removed from this thread because they were off topic and confrontational. Please do try to keep to the topic and it's important to be friendly and respectful to others.

7 hours ago, Deddly said:

Do you think it'll catch on?

Apparently not

[Majorjim!]

11 hours ago, Azimech said:

So, and what you 'invented' is something you tell anyone as well. You placed a collection of parts in a pattern and called it a bearing, you've done a great job at that but you stopped at that point.

After I created my tiny hinge I didn't stop as you say I incorporated it into some great designs and craft. Using it to make impossibly small doors and such. People have used it to make the smallest possible turboprops to.

 I think Zoo created something new with his turboprop here.

 @ZooNamedGames how's the progress on this going?

Edited November 8, 2016 by Majorjim!
Reasons

[life_on_venus]

I'd like to point out that it is incredibly compact and will (I'm assuming) make a small amount of power if the control surfaces were angled properly. It would run at constant speed.

Now what sort of flying vehicle could benefit from a small, constant thrust produced by a small engine... Perhaps one with rotary wings...?

/sarc

Edited November 8, 2016 by life_on_venus