totm may 2024 [1.12.x] - Modular Kolonization System (MKS)

[HunterForce]

Can anyone point me in the right direction to the current thread about Karbonite/Karborundum? The only 2 threads I can find is Karbonite which hasn't been used since 2015 and K+ which isnt in use because of the merge of Karbonite and K+.

[Gilph]

8 minutes ago, HunterForce said:

Can anyone point me in the right direction to the current thread about Karbonite/Karborundum? The only 2 threads I can find is Karbonite which hasn't been used since 2015 and K+ which isnt in use because of the merge of Karbonite and K+.

The old thread was a victim of the forum crash.  A new one has not been started yet.

[HunterForce]

13 minutes ago, Gilph said:

The old thread was a victim of the forum crash.  A new one has not been started yet.

Then I hope its alright if I post this here. If it doesn't belong then I will happily remove it but I'm currently at my wits end.

Alright, I feel I've done everything I could with no results so I have to say/ask; There is no karborundum around Kerbol as far as I can tell. I have sent missions all the way into Kerbols atmos (no temp dmg) stopping at 25Mm increments starting at Eve orbit with every sensor or particle scoop there is. I have dug through other threads threads and come across

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and

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which based on my files in GameData/CommunityResourcePack/ResourceConfigs :Karborundum

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Should indicate that I should find some around

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as far as I can tell.

I again searched stopping around every 10Mm starting and stopping 200Mm higher and lower than that orbit. I also loaded an older Sandbox and found Karborundum at the expected spot and I also started a new career and also found some there as well. I used the same ship on all three files.

Could my seed be broken? Where would I even look to check that? Is there any way to copy over the resource files for just the Kerbol from one of the working files? I am at my wits end. I have spent way too many hours at trying to figure this out with no results. Thanks for any help.

[CausticTeapot]

So I saw that you've said you won't have an option to change the hiring system back to stock (which makes sense, finding scientists and engineers was a pain), but is there any chance  the mandatory maxed experience for sandbox and science modes will get fixed?  I quickly read through that mod's thread and it was brought up but seems like it never made it too far past that.  It's kinda messed with my running save now, every hire I had before the change has 0 exp, and everything new will be maxed out, which is just odd.  If not, I'll just roll back until I decide I like career mode again.

[FirroSeranel]

7 hours ago, sh1pman said:

It might be because my Eve satellite is in higher orbit than the Kerbin station (350km vs. 100km). 

...

I feel you... Still deciding what I want more, framerate or beautiful planet packs 

...

Hmm, so how exactly will that help us nail down the framerate issue with Kopernicus?

Auto science samplers are blatant cheating! They take so much from the game, you probably don't even read the experiment results, do you? 

2

 

5

Yeah, I think 150 km is where it shifts to 2d mode.

Well, how it helps nail down the framerate issue is that it actually isn't a framerate issue, it's a physics engine issue. The framerate is just a symptom. Even at Max Delta = 0.01, they're still inextricably linked, and always will be, due to the way Unity works (in my understanding anyway). It's the difference between saying to a doctor "It hurts here..." and the doctor just guessing at what's going on, and the doctor taking an X-Ray and saying, "Yep, you have a hairline fracture".

For me, at least, at 0.01 Max Delta, FPS doesn't really start to chug until about 35% physics rate. Even at 40%, FPS stays reasonably smooth (anything above 30 FPS is basically pushing the limit of what your eyes can discern frame by frame. More than that just reduces that chance of glitches and stuttering, and eases eye strain). But then suddenly at 35-ish physics rate, FPS drops down into the teens.

Also telling is that the FPS in your spreadsheet is mostly determined by physics load, not graphical complexity. Compared to Kerbin, especially with the visual mods installed, the Mun is graphically extremely simple to render. It's just polygons, lighting, shadows, and probably some bump maps and spectral stuff. Its FPS should be blazing fast compared to Kerbin with ray scattering, fog effects, volumetric clouds, water, etc. Yet it isn't. That's because the real culprit is the physics rate; the FPS is just a symptom of that. They are linked closely enough, however, that your data is far from useless.

I'm starting to suspect that KSP has a long-standing bug involving the on-rails physics system, actually. The jittering orbital conics, which gets much, much worse with planet packs installed and, I think, with the maximum radius of the outermost planet installed; the occasional radical shift in orbit when engaging non-physics warp; the way things occasionally fall through planet surfaces and explode during non-physics warp, then reappear intact when warp is disengaged... I suspect this trail of bug-tracing will lead to a stock issue. The thing is, I also suspect it's not so much a "bug" as a limit in the physics engine's floating dual axes of spacial location. There's a reason they had to implement that, rather than just having one spacial axial origin at Kerbol. I've always been curious how RSS deals with it, without totally screwing itself with sheer size that the game shouldn't be able to handle.

After all, that limit in positional accuracy is, as I understand it, the real reason the Kerbin solar system is 1/10th scale, and the reason that even at that scale, it stops at Jupiter. The planet pack I run, Kerbal Origins, is actually based on original planned planets and moons from Squad, that were cancelled for "unknown reasons". I suspect it's because either that many bodies, or orbits that large, destabilized the game, and they knew it. It is, to me, a much more interesting planet pack than OPM though. It includes a version of Saturn with rings, a potato-shaped, non-round moon that rotates so fast that the surface gravity is almost zero along the long axis, and landing along the short axis is challenging because you don't have much time to do it before the next lump of the potato smacks you... it has a small planetoid called Harvest (get it? Harvest Moon? XD) in Kerbin's L5 Lagrange Point, which the physics geek in me loves... *ahem* Anyway... <.< It also doesn't go as far out as OPM, which in my experience lessens the instability it causes. I used to run with a planet pack that added a red dwarf star with a bunch of planets, and it made the orbital jittering practically unplayable.

And... yeah, technically maybe auto science samplers are cheating, but I've played through about fifteen career modes, and read every science experiment results a hundred times, and just don't give a toss anymore.  And most of what they "take from the game" is just fiddly searching for the right highlighted piece and clicking them five times until the glitchy UI decides to recognize that you clicked something.  I definitely wouldn't suggest it for a newbie, but for me, I just want to blast through the early Kerbin, Mun, and Minmus science gathering phase as quickly as possible so I can get to the interesting stuff. I even start with the beginning funds and science sliders maxed out anymore (but with the reputation deep in the negative, for fun). I consider it to be, RP-wise, like rather than playing NASA, I'm playing SpaceX. Well-funded, with access to advanced technology at a higher rate than simply inventing it, up until I get near the forefront of available tech, which happens about the time my "proof of concept" phase is done, which will, to me, be about when SpaceX lands on the moon in the real world, at which point they'll be about 5-6 tiers into the KSP tech tree, and ready for the "interesting stuff". XD

<.< Sorry for the wall of text.

Edited March 22, 2017 by FirroSeranel

[FirroSeranel]

Oh, I also get a few % points of physics rate by shifting KSP_64.exe into High Priority (Task Manager, right-click, Details, right-click, Priority, High, in Windows 10)

Edit: and also significantly smoother FPS even at low physics rate, with these settings in NVidia Control Panel: https://kerbal.curseforge.com/projects/to-0-24-astronomers-performance-improvement

Edited March 22, 2017 by FirroSeranel

[FirroSeranel]

Oh now -that- is interesting... I uninstalled Kopernicus and MFI, and reduced SVE to Medium Resolution... it made no difference in my normal physics rate on Minmus, though framerate was slightly improved. But when I went to 2x physics warp, I usually get about 80% physics rate at my Minmus base (up from 36% at 1x). Now I get 110%.

So... I think the truth is, my Minmus base, while very pretty, has too many gorram parts. D:

Also... has anyone else noticed that after running at physics warp for a while, the 1x physics rate is vastly improved? Like, doubled, from then on? This physics engine is so flipping strange... O.O

Edited March 22, 2017 by FirroSeranel

[Poodmund]

22 hours ago, Merkov said:

Just a small FYI: On page 63 of the Kopernicus thread there is a bit of a discussion about Kopernicus-induced lag. Poodmund had a user test his base on Minmus as well as Eeloo. When the lag appeared on the Mun and Eeloo, but not Minmus, he had this to say:

I have NO idea as to what that means, but I have a feeling you guys may be chasing a bit of the same bug. It may be worth having a quick scan of the Kopernicus thread. Maybe some of this info can help the guys there figure out what's going on?

Paging @sh1pman too... could you guys test out this config and log your results with Kopernicus install when landed on the Mun and also Eeloo if you're feeling troubleshoot'y?

https://www.dropbox.com/s/dpoxswj6ix4vwd6/voronoiRemove.cfg?dl=0

Be careful not to use this config file on a proper save as it will alter the Mun and Eeloo's terrain slightly so may ruin your base. It basically removes all the Voronoi based PQS Mods applied to those bodies, which are exclusive to the Mun and Eeloo. Could you test whether you see significant FPS increases with that config running with Kopernicus?

Sorry for the slight off-topic posting, RoverDude, but I know you're eager to get this issue resolved too so you can explore OPM/GPP.  

Edited March 22, 2017 by Poodmund

[sh1pman]

10 minutes ago, Poodmund said:

Paging @sh1pman too... could you guys test out this config and log your results with Kopernicus install when landed on the Mun and also Eeloo if you're feeling troubleshoot'y?

https://www.dropbox.com/s/dpoxswj6ix4vwd6/voronoiRemove.cfg?dl=0

Be careful not to use this config file on a proper save as it will alter the Mun and Eeloo's terrain slightly so may ruin your base. It basically removes all the Voronoi based PQS Mods applied to those bodies, which are exclusive to the Mun and Eeloo. Could you test whether you see significant FPS increases with that config running with Kopernicus?

Sorry for the slight off-topic posting, RoverDude, but I know you're eager to get this issue resolved too so you can explore OPM/GPP.  

On mobile now, so can't test, unfortunately. I'll give it a try later today. Still, as you can see here, I also get a significant fps drop at my Gilly base with Kopernicus (from 70 to 45). So if Gilly doesn't have these voronoi PQS mods, the config isn't going to solve the problem, right?

BTW, does your OPM overhaul work for 1.2.2?

Edited March 22, 2017 by sh1pman

[jd284]

47 minutes ago, Poodmund said:

Paging @sh1pman too... could you guys test out this config and log your results with Kopernicus install when landed on the Mun and also Eeloo if you're feeling troubleshoot'y?

https://www.dropbox.com/s/dpoxswj6ix4vwd6/voronoiRemove.cfg?dl=0

I'm playing RSS and on Moon (which uses the Mun template) I had 13.5 fps before, and 20+ fps with PQSMod_VertexVoronoi (Moon already had PQSMod_VoronoiCraters). It also didn't affect my base in any way, so I'm keeping this change. Thanks, this really makes a difference!

[HeyThisIsntFallout]

There's nothing about the Sunflower Portable light in this thread and I can't find it on the Github page. Is it completely stand alone or can it send or receive power or attach to anything or do anything besides be a light source?

[DStaal]

15 minutes ago, ItsSeanBroleson said:

There's nothing about the Sunflower Portable light in this thread and I can't find it on the Github page. Is it completely stand alone or can it send or receive power or attach to anything or do anything besides be a light source?

It's almost completely stand alone: It can receive power via local logistics.  Other than that, it's just a solar-powered light source.

[FirroSeranel]

Hey @RoverDude, how feasible would it be to make module deployment be considered a resource consumer for material kits and/or make it make a pull request from local distribution hubs? It's a little silly to have to KAS-pipe "material kits", which don't seem like a liquid really, to a rover, drive it 20 meters, and then pipe it into a mining outpost... or alternatively to attach a kontainer to a rover, then to the outpost. But if it'd be really complicated to code, it's not a huge deal.

[Bombarier]

On 3/22/2017 at 2:15 AM, CausticTeapot said:

So I saw that you've said you won't have an option to change the hiring system back to stock (which makes sense, finding scientists and engineers was a pain), but is there any chance  the mandatory maxed experience for sandbox and science modes will get fixed?  I quickly read through that mod's thread and it was brought up but seems like it never made it too far past that.  It's kinda messed with my running save now, every hire I had before the change has 0 exp, and everything new will be maxed out, which is just odd.  If not, I'll just roll back until I decide I like career mode again.

@CausticTeapot I noted that as well, but in my science save with experience enabled save, when the freshly minted 5* uber-red ass's get their first deployment, they immediately turn into 0* squaddie.

So that bit is pretty realistic 

 

[sh1pman]

22 hours ago, Poodmund said:

Paging @sh1pman too... could you guys test out this config and log your results with Kopernicus install when landed on the Mun and also Eeloo if you're feeling troubleshoot'y?

https://www.dropbox.com/s/dpoxswj6ix4vwd6/voronoiRemove.cfg?dl=0

Be careful not to use this config file on a proper save as it will alter the Mun and Eeloo's terrain slightly so may ruin your base. It basically removes all the Voronoi based PQS Mods applied to those bodies, which are exclusive to the Mun and Eeloo. Could you test whether you see significant FPS increases with that config running with Kopernicus?

Sorry for the slight off-topic posting, RoverDude, but I know you're eager to get this issue resolved too so you can explore OPM/GPP.  

How do I install this config? MM is reporting an error when I put it into the GameData folder.

[Djohaal]

I really could use some help understanding how medbays and colonization modules affect the kerbal's Home and Hab multipliers. I have one of each in a colony of 33 kerbals running and supplied. They sometimes make the home and hab go up during timewarp, sometimes they go down. Erratically. Still waiting to see the home counter of my touristfied kerbals to recover.

[Jasseji]

@RoverDude Man, i came back to KSP/MKS after a few months and sooooo many changes (for the better of course :D)

I have a question though, is it feasible/possible to run the pack without the additional Kerbal Skills ?

I know how to turn it off (well, delete the patch which adds those) but will the colony be runnable when i use only Pilot+Engineer+Scientists ?

I mean, are there modules which wont work without those additional skills ?

[TauPhraim]

5 hours ago, Bombarier said:

the freshly minted 5* uber-red ass's get their first deployment, they immediately turn into 0* squaddie.

Are you using a planet pack ? If so, a fix is coming (hopefully).

But I don't get the problem with sandbox: you *want* kerbals to be less than 5 stars there ?

[RoverDude]

It's a code thing (extra skills) so deleting a patch won't cut it.

 

 

[Urses]

1 hour ago, Djohaal said:

I really could use some help understanding how medbays and colonization modules affect the kerbal's Home and Hab multipliers. I have one of each in a colony of 33 kerbals running and supplied. They sometimes make the home and hab go up during timewarp, sometimes they go down. Erratically. Still waiting to see the home counter of my touristfied kerbals to recover.

Medbay=> Medic + touristified One + ColonySuplies => the Tourist Turns slowly normal again.

ColonisationModule + ColonieSuplies=>all Kerbals go up to the Max Hab and Home time. After this point is reached the Timer get "frozen".

If BaseCapacity for Home is at 50 Years they get never more homesick like Pilots and Scouts.

Thats how i understand it.

Funny Kabooms 

Urses

Edited March 23, 2017 by Urses
Mobile Autokorrektur... T_T

[Gilph]

Since the discussion earlier on the planet mods and performance, I made an install with Kopernicus, The Galileo planet pack, and custom skyboxes.  Wow...it is beautiful. No real serious lags at the moment, but I'm only now adding regular mods and MKS.  Might be worth starting another career save.

[jd284]

@RoverDude, I found a problem with scavenging and background catch-up mechanics of converters.

Basically, ModuleLogisticsConsumer doesn't operate at all during catch-up so containers run dry and aren't filled from other nearby vessels until physics kicks in after catch-up. For instance, I can watch my kontainer get drained of its 20k MetallicOre in about 5 steps (which are 6 hour intervals right?), and then it stays empty for a few seconds. Then right after physics kicks in again, it fills up to about 12k MetallicOre. Meanwhile the other vessel's kontainer is full all that time until physics kicks in.

I think the problem is that ModuleLogisticsConsumer does its work in FixedUpdate, which isn't called while physics is suspended during catch-up. At least, when I tried adding some debug print statements, FixedUpdate didn't get called at all until physics kicked in, and then only with the normal physics deltatime.

I also got a lot of exceptions like

[RESOURCES] - Error in - BaseConverter_GetDeltaTime - System.NullReferenceException: Object reference
 not set to an instance of an object
  at ResourceUtilities.GetMaxDeltaTime () [0x00000] in <filename unknown>:0
  at BaseConverter.GetDeltaTime () [0x00000] in <filename unknown>:0

which may or may not be relevant... and if they are, what to do about them. The only other reference I found was in the KPBS thread, but I don't use KPBS.

Is there anything I could try?

[Deus Zed Machina]

Does anyone know what modules and/or resources one should include when building a four-Kerbal interplanetary spacecraft that can sustain itself for about a year without resupply? Beyond an agriculture module and plenty of fertilizer, I'm not certain of the requirements for such a task.

[DStaal]

2 hours ago, Jasseji said:

@RoverDude Man, i came back to KSP/MKS after a few months and sooooo many changes (for the better of course :D)

I have a question though, is it feasible/possible to run the pack without the additional Kerbal Skills ?

I know how to turn it off (well, delete the patch which adds those) but will the colony be runnable when i use only Pilot+Engineer+Scientists ?

I mean, are there modules which wont work without those additional skills ?

You can't run it without the extra skills - but with some careful config editing, you could run it with only the three base professions.  Basically, you'd need to go into the config that defines the new professions and skills (it's an MM patch) and delete *just* the new professions.  The same file also applies the skills to the base professions, so if you keep that you wouldn't ever need the others.

55 minutes ago, Deus Zed Machina said:

Does anyone know what modules and/or resources one should include when building a four-Kerbal interplanetary spacecraft that can sustain itself for about a year without resupply? Beyond an agriculture module and plenty of fertilizer, I'm not certain of the requirements for such a task.

That depends a lot on you.    There are various ways to accomplish the task.  I'd add some high-quality recyclers - maybe even a purifier and some water.  That will reduce the amount of fertilizer you'll need considerably.  And you should look at habitation - but depending on what other functions your craft has, you may already have that covered.

[Deus Zed Machina]

1 hour ago, DStaal said:

That depends a lot on you.    There are various ways to accomplish the task.  I'd add some high-quality recyclers - maybe even a purifier and some water.  That will reduce the amount of fertilizer you'll need considerably.  And you should look at habitation - but depending on what other functions your craft has, you may already have that covered.

Cool, thanks. I was thinking of adding at least one of the big inflatable rings mostly for looks, but the habitation is indeed a nice bonus

Edited March 24, 2017 by Deus Zed Machina