[Min KSP: 1.12.2] Mark One Laboratory Extensions (M.O.L.E.)

[Sokol_323]

There is a problem. Version of the game 1.4.4. The mod version is 1.15.4. Experiments stopped loading. If in VAB to choose any module of M. O. L. E which can bear experiments, slots are filled, the choice is. But after moving to the launch pad, they disappear and do not appear in the menu. Accordingly, there is no possibility to transfer them to the orbital station. Also, all the experiments previously transferred to the orbital station were lost, which were worked there for a long time. I can't understand what it is connected with. How to fix not know.

[Sokol_323]

Installed version 1.5.5. All the same: in the VAB experiments can be downloaded, but on the launchpad, they disappear.

[Sokol_323]

Link to output log:

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1gxWUAwFn5cdVkU0sUNJa02M5HoFWU33i/view?usp=sharing

[vossiewulf]

I have a problem also, I put together a little M.O.L.E. rover to test, when I launch it, right click and select Manage Operations button, a gray M.O.L.E. Operations dialog comes up that's blank and there's no way to close it. I'm using 1.44 with a mediumish number of mods, none having problems that I can see. I just installed Pathfinder/Buffalo again, they seem fine but will test them also.

 

[vossiewulf]

On 7/29/2018 at 1:00 PM, vossiewulf said:

I have a problem also, I put together a little M.O.L.E. rover to test, when I launch it, right click and select Manage Operations button, a gray M.O.L.E. Operations dialog comes up that's blank and there's no way to close it. I'm using 1.44 with a mediumish number of mods, none having problems that I can see. I just installed Pathfinder/Buffalo again, they seem fine but will test them also.

 

This was fixed by rolling forward to 1.55.10 of Wild Blue Tools. That interface was broken somewhere  in the 1.55.single digits. 

[Norcalplanner]

I'm creating a new 1.4.5 install, and MOLE was working correctly with the version 1.55.10 of WBItools. Pathfinder parts (such as the Ponderosa) still give the persistent blank gray screen in the VAB that others have noted when selecting Manage Operations. Since I'm much more of a station guy than a base guy, I may temporarily remove Pathfinder and possibly Buffalo, then reintroduce them later.

[Angelo Kerman]

Now that I've got the Buffalo parts done, I'll be looking into bug fixes for MOLE and Pathfinder this week...

[Angelo Kerman]

On 7/26/2018 at 1:50 AM, Sokol_323 said:

Link to output log:

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1gxWUAwFn5cdVkU0sUNJa02M5HoFWU33i/view?usp=sharing

I can reproduce this, checking it out now...

[Sokol_323]

3 hours ago, Angel-125 said:

I can reproduce this, checking it out now...

I rolled back the Wild Blue Tools 1.55.10 to Wild Blue Tools 1.55.9. The loading of the experiments has been restored. Only thing missing is you downloaded previously by running the ships. Had to restore again.

[vossiewulf]

5 hours ago, Angel-125 said:

I can reproduce this, checking it out now...

Dont know if you saw but I was just testing the Pathfinder parts and the Casa comes up with a blank screen, the rest work fine, only building I didn't try is the cooling tower. So there's something specifically wrong with the Casa, doesn't look like general breakage.

[Angelo Kerman]

16 hours ago, vossiewulf said:

Dont know if you saw but I was just testing the Pathfinder parts and the Casa comes up with a blank screen, the rest work fine, only building I didn't try is the cooling tower. So there's something specifically wrong with the Casa, doesn't look like general breakage.

Yup, I have a fix for both issues.

[Angelo Kerman]

Ok, got a fix for the experiments vanishing when you go out of the VAB/SPH, and got the issue with the lab not remembering your progress defeated too.

[JadeOfMaar]

Surely everyone who has been to this thread knows of the awesome Fulcrum, Corvette and Hemi-Cuda engines. Well they're getting better.....

Better plumes, that is! The ones shown below aren't what will be released, but it's a great start and a great tease.

In addition, with Classic Stock still maturing, and the WBI multi-mode engine feature, these engines have become tri-modal.

• LFO: featuring all-new yellow plumes.
• PropLox: Equivalent to Hydrolox, with blue plumes.
• RaptaLox: Equivalent to Methalox, and easily refueled if the vessel carried by them lands on a planet rich in Hydrokerbons; with purple plumes!

Spoiler

LFO and PropLox modes will be freely available, but RaptaLox mode will be sealed behind a part upgrade later in the tech tree, after the LFO upgrades.

For clarification, and for those interested, PropLox is an alternative to Hydrolox, made wildly popular through Nertea's mods, Cryogenic Engines and Kerbal Atomics. The only thing missing here is a boiloff module, which could be installed easily enough if there is demand for it. The Proplox mode carries the highest vacuum Isp of the three modes but the weakest at sea level.

Raptium, effectively Refined Methane, is rather lightweight, and is distilled (and very fast) from Hydrokerbon, familiar to users of Karbonite or Kethane. Hydrokerbon also distills into LiquidFuel but currently with no noticeable advantage in speed or input efficiency, and currently has no other use by itself. Raptium's thrust and Isp are a pleasant surprise to experience-- higher overall than LFO. Given its power and conversion speed, it will be fairly costly to operate its converter, and Hydrokerbon is fairly rare and hard to find in bulk. I wish you well with finding a hot spot on Kerbin or wherever else in the local planetary system.

Edited August 7, 2018 by JadeOfMaar

[Angelo Kerman]

MOLE 1.15.6 is now available:
- WildBlueTools update.
- Bug fixes

Stay tuned for an FX update!

[Sokol_323]

3 hours ago, Angel-125 said:

MOLE 1.15.6 is now available:
- WildBlueTools update.
- Bug fixes

Stay tuned for an FX update!

Only I'll finish all my experiments first, so I don't lose them again.

[AbhChallenger]

7 hours ago, JadeOfMaar said:

For clarification, and for those interested, PropLox is an alternative to Hydrolox, made wildly popular through Nertea's mods, Cryogenic Engines and Kerbal Atomics. The only thing missing here is a boiloff module, which could be installed easily enough if there is demand for it. The Proplox mode carries the highest vacuum Isp of the three modes but the weakest at sea level.

Raptium, effectively Refined Methane, is rather lightweight, and is distilled (and very fast) from Hydrokerbon, familiar to users of Karbonite or Kethane. Hydrokerbon also distills into LiquidFuel but currently with no noticeable advantage in speed or input efficiency, and currently has no other use by itself. Raptium's thrust and Isp are a pleasant surprise to experience-- higher overall than LFO. Given its power and conversion speed, it will be fairly costly to operate its converter, and Hydrokerbon is fairly rare and hard to find in bulk. I wish you well with finding a hot spot on Kerbin or wherever else in the local planetary system.

First of all. This is awesome! Having a choice in propellant will lead to interesting new design choices and less reliance on building monster rockets to achieve high delta-v.

A question of balance however. Will PropLox be balanced to be lower thrust and lower density like Cryogenic engines? Raptium can be balanced via cost but hydrogen without the negatives of density and lower thrust it will possibly end up overpowered.

Edited August 8, 2018 by AbhChallenger

[JadeOfMaar]

@AbhChallenger I'm glad you're excited. Mission accomplished.

I'm not against such re-balancing if more demand is raised for it. But I will need external feedback on it. I hardly play casually anymore and Hydrolox is not a propellant combination I normally deal with so I'm blind to the little things about it. At this initial release, PropLox may indeed be overpowered. Higher vac Isp and equal thrust to LFO, and lower ASL thrust (due to lower ASL Isp) vs LFO.

[AbhChallenger]

I don't think that is enough of a tradeoff considering how simple it is to make rockets in stock scales. There would be absolutely no reason to use anything but Proplox (Or Raptium if the goal is to make fuel elsewhere) as it would be simple to defeat the lower ASL thrust with boosters.

 

I think a better balance is for Proplox to be balanced to be a halfway point between stock LFO and Cryogenic engines hydrogen. That should make the math to balance it easier. You will want players to still use LFO for the second stages for really heavy payloads into low orbit. But explore the benefits of proplox for payloads going to the Mun and beyond.

[JadeOfMaar]

@AbhChallenger Here's the current table of stats. I think it would be sufficient just to provide a range of fractions to multiply by, relative to LFO, to make PropLox thrust higher or lower as needed. Again, I don't normally deal with Hydrolox,  so I have no clue yet to how to treat it.

Note that the Fulcrum is kindred to the stock Swivel and is a lifter, but the other two are kindred to the Terrier.

Edited August 8, 2018 by JadeOfMaar

[AbhChallenger]

So far the thrust and ISP levels look way too high.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/RL10

This is a good example of hydrolox when used for its maximum ISP at the expense of thrust. And it tops out at 465 isp. I think cryogenic engines has one with similar ISP but of course it is difficult to use because of the lower thrust.

Perhaps 402 or so? Thrust reduced to 80 for Proplox and 110 for Raptalox (ISP for that should be slightly reduced. But more balance can be achieved via a high cost of the fuel and tech tree requirements)

I don't know how to calculate the correct density here. Look at the difference between stock tanks and those configured for cyrogenic and cut that in half? You will want players to need to possibly add another small tank or two. But not have to build rather large rockets to take advantage of the benefits of proplox.

[AbhChallenger]

Thinking about the Fulcrum. I think it should not get proplox at all. Yes there are multiple first stage engines in real life that use hydrolox. Yet generally they fall into two categories. Very low thrust and meant to use as a sustainer engine (That does not work well in KSP stock scale where launch times are typically well under 5 minutes) Or they have good thrust but are very very expensive. I know KSP is not supposed to be compared with real life engines but it makes it difficult to balance an engine like this when the entire point of the engine is to be very powerful. Raptium makes far more for an interesting alternative fuel here.

[AbhChallenger]

Sorry to make a third post in a row but I wanted to see what you have done with classic stock so far and when I configured one of the Titan tanks to use Proplox. It seems you have already made it Hydrolox like when it comes to ratio and density.

https://imgur.com/KGbzKQw

vs

https://imgur.com/lddaKYG

If this was intended. Then the ISP values you had before seem more balanced. (Its just the thrust that is less balanced) However, If you are willing to edit the density and ratio (If that does not break other things that use classic stock) of Proplox and the tanks and rockets that use it. I think that middle ground between stock and cyrogenics can be achieved. And it is a way to do away with boiloff and still keep balance. So maybe 5-6 tons or so after the rebalance? (That 6 ton tank combined with proplox at 402 ISP is going to be amazing even with the lower thrust)

After that is done you can again find a halfway point and use that for Raptalox. I would guess that perhaps the end result would be around 7.5 tons for that tank? You will want it to be a bit less dense than LiquidFuel but the challenge to come from the tech level requirements and perhaps fuel/engine costs.

 

Again all of this is just what I think balance should be. There have been plenty of times when I have use cryogenic engines and thought as I have to stack tank after tank to make an all hydrolox lifter "It would be nice to have a midway propellant between this and LiquidFuel"

Edited August 9, 2018 by AbhChallenger

[Bombaatu]

I know the Flying Saucer IVAs require MAS; what about the IVAs on the Brumby & Backseat? Do those still use RPM or will they be updated to MAS?

[Sokol_323]

@Angel-125, please explain how to perform the KNUTS experiment. I have a space station, which has a laboratory module M. O. L. E and Mark One Habitat module, 3 crew members. The experiment is loaded into the M. O. L. e slot, there is a sufficient amount of Research Kit and electricity. When you activate the experiment starts LabTime. After the LabTime becomes equal to 36.00, the slot appears the inscription need 194 soil, which as I understand should develop Mark One Habitat. However, nothing else happens, soil does not appear in the lab and the experiment is not completed. What am I doing wrong?

P.S. All the other experiments I have successfully executed and completed, there are only KNUTS.

[JadeOfMaar]

@Sokol_323 Soil is the waste product in Angel's life support mod, Snacks. You may be able to set a Buckboard to contain Soil and then simply ship it up. If that resource is not available then Snacks is a hard dependency for that experiment.