[1.12.x] Near Future Technologies (September 6)

[notJebKerman]

For some reason NF propulsion xenon & argon tanks, as well as stock ones aren't showing up. The game acts like they aren't even installed (the craft with them disappear). Does anyone have an idea what could be causing this?

[Spaceception]

*Sees near future launchers*

NOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!

My laptop can't take much more from you! I love it! But I have to uninstall some stuff!

[Space Kadet]

2 hours ago, notJebKerman said:

For some reason NF propulsion xenon & argon tanks, as well as stock ones aren't showing up. The game acts like they aren't even installed (the craft with them disappear). Does anyone have an idea what could be causing this?

sounds like its not installed, Have you double checked thay iys in Gamedata, and inside the folders there are the correct subfolders? i know it sounds too obvious but ive done it before....

[mrclucks]

*checks CKAN*

whats this? near future launch vehicles?  are they taking that name from near future technologies!!?

*checks page, gets excited, checks image gallery, gets more excited*

this is awesome!! just installed it so i hope it tests out well!

[AmpCat]

On 7/6/2017 at 11:39 PM, Nertea said:

 

 

@Nertea how'd you get those flares on the engines? I have scatterer installed but not seeing it. Other plume or visual effects mods? I do have the fancy lens flair for the sun. 

[Mikki]

I got the time to test the parts and they are just great, thanks alot for your work!
I found the heavy dockingport at 200`000 funds, if anyone else didn`t notice the pricetag till now, it`s some two digits off most likely (Shouldn`t it be 5m diameter? Construction has allready a hollow 3.75m sized...?).

Energia textures really fit the purpose..., the LFO engines have beautiful turbomachinery, supportparts are simply perfect...

Mod out of hell errm heaven!

Edited July 10, 2017 by Mikki
stupid me8D

[HoveringKiller]

On 7/8/2017 at 6:18 AM, Wolf Baginski said:

No specific help, but it might be a memory problem. Remove some other medium-size Mod, and see if it loads, or crashes at a different point. As long as you don't then load a saved game, it shouldn't break anything. If the crash is at a different point, you can be pretty sure it is not the specific component. This is why I am a bit picky about which larger parts sets I use, I don't want to overload my hardware. I don't much use the IVA option, and some part sets are heavy on that side.

Game loads without it completly fine. I may just delete the folder that the decouples are in, as NF launch vehicles now provides that option. I mainly want spacey for the 3.75m docking port and SRB variety. Do you happen to know by chance if the 5m spacey port and the 5m port from nertea are compatable? If not no biggy, just curious haha.

[cineboxandrew]

I dont think the electic charge amount on the "Support" octogirder pieces are balanced well. the full length one stores 9000 EC,  yet the short stock 2.5m battery stores 4000 EC. 

 

if each of the batteries in the model is about twice the size of the B-800, then a full size support girder should store about 50,000 EC

Edited July 10, 2017 by cineboxandrew
MATH!

[Streetwind]

2 hours ago, AmpCat said:

@Nertea how'd you get those flares on the engines? I have scatterer installed but not seeing it. Other plume or visual effects mods? I do have the fancy lens flair for the sun. 

It's a trick. The flare is actually from the sun (a custom sunflare modded in with Scatterer) and the angle of the picture is chosen so that the engines are lined up with the sun.

Look up Galileo's Sunflares if you also want an extremely shiny sun.

[Spaceception]

I've just deleted/replaced most of my mods, and the parts look great! I can't wait to see what massive crafts I can create

[Nertea]

2 hours ago, Mikki said:

I found the heavy dockingport at 200`000 funds, if anyone else didn`t notice the pricetag till now, it`s some two digits off most likely 

I'll check that out for next version.

1 hour ago, cineboxandrew said:

I dont think the electic charge amount on the "Support" octogirder pieces are balanced well. the full length one stores 9000 EC,  yet the short stock 2.5m battery stores 4000 EC. 

 

if each of the batteries in the model is about twice the size of the B-800, then a full size support girder should store about 50,000 EC

Balance is fine, total capacity is irrelevant, it would be unbalanced if there was a Ec:mass issue, which looks fine. It would be weird to me if one single piece obviated the need for any other batter ever.

10 hours ago, Weywot8 said:

Loving the new launch vehicles pack. Noticed a tiny ~7.5 degree change in alignment on the 'cap' tank (EA-F96) texture versus the bigger tanks. And on the EA-S10 adapter. It's only an aesthetic thing but does break the clean visuals when stacking tanks, especially the EA-F96. 

Was it to match the guidance computer and EX-M25 mount? Those work because of the added symmetries in the texture.

Okie dokes, back to making big ships.

I'll look into that, but it's going to be low on the priority list. Very low. 

On 7/9/2017 at 7:43 AM, FellipeC said:

Yes, too hard to figure out best values without really understanding what they really do.

Yeah... I've spent hours and hours trying to figure it out.

22 hours ago, Wyzard said:

@Nertea, may I suggest a pair of additional RCS thruster configurations for NF Spacecraft?

• A variant of the RX-15T that has a top nozzle in addition to the bottom one, and
• A variant of the RX-45 that lacks a top nozzle.

I've had design situations where both of those would've been useful.

(It might also be occasionally useful to have an RX-45 variant with no top or bottom nozzle, just the side ones, though I don't think I've ever had a need for that personally.)

Maybe. I'm always wary of creating a very large number of blocks that are specialized. The ones in the mod currently were determined some way back to be the most widely optimized. 

[notJebKerman]

4 hours ago, Space Kadet said:

sounds like its not installed, Have you double checked thay iys in Gamedata, and inside the folders there are the correct subfolders? i know it sounds too obvious but ive done it before....

yep. ive gone as far as to check the individual cfgs. Since it also removes all stock tanks ill start a topic on it

[Space Kadet]

13 minutes ago, notJebKerman said:

yep. ive gone as far as to check the individual cfgs. Since it also removes all stock tanks ill start a topic on it

what other mods you using, and what version mmpatch and game?

[AmpCat]

59 minutes ago, Streetwind said:

It's a trick. The flare is actually from the sun (a custom sunflare modded in with Scatterer) and the angle of the picture is chosen so that the engines are lined up with the sun.

Look up Galileo's Sunflares if you also want an extremely shiny sun.

I was hoping for flares on engines.

Sounds like a mod some needs to make. 

[Streetwind]

7 minutes ago, AmpCat said:

I was hoping for flares on engines.

Sounds like a mod some needs to make. 

You might want to look at Realplume Stock Configs, and/or Engine Lightning. Not sure if either of them does what you really want, but those are your options right now.

[notJebKerman]

42 minutes ago, Space Kadet said:

what other mods you using, and what version mmpatch and game?

im using ksp 1.3 and module manager 2.8.0.

mod list is here:

Spoiler

the thread i started can be found here. 

NFT isnt causing this, i just posted it here because it is, as far as i know, the only mod affected. 

[Krakatoa]

5 minutes ago, notJebKerman said:

im using ksp 1.3 and module manager 2.8.0.

mod list is here:

the thread i started can be found here. 

NFT isnt causing this, i just posted it here because it is, as far as i know, the only mod affected. 

Is it possible you set up an accidental Janitor's Closet filter? Dunno if it affects anything, but MM has upgraded one more time.

[notJebKerman]

2 hours ago, Krakatoa said:

Is it possible you set up an accidental Janitor's Closet filter? Dunno if it affects anything, but MM has upgraded one more time.

Its not like something JC would do. JC only makes parts not show up in VAB/SPH. My problem is, that some active spacrcraft were lost because of the missing parts (which happens when the mod isnt installed). A patch that does this is included as an optional adition to SSTU, but I dont have that installed. 

I'll try reinstalling the game and updating MM. If that doesnt work, ill stay on 1.2.2 until i find the solution

[DStaal]

54 minutes ago, notJebKerman said:

Its not like something JC would do. JC only makes parts not show up in VAB/SPH. My problem is, that some active spacrcraft were lost because of the missing parts (which happens when the mod isnt installed). A patch that does this is included as an optional adition to SSTU, but I dont have that installed. 

I'll try reinstalling the game and updating MM. If that doesnt work, ill stay on 1.2.2 until i find the solution

Actually, it *is* something JC would do.  If you perma-prune parts using JC, then they won't be loaded by KSP at all.  (Permapruning is a two-step process: You first have to hide the part from both the VAB and the SPH, and then hit perma-prune.)

[smotheredrun]

So I take a few days/weeks of not really checking the forums for anything other than PMs, and then FAWUMP!  @Nertea and @Streetwind go and drop this new pack on us.  Thanks guys!  Going to try those new parts out soon!

[Wyzard]

10 hours ago, Nertea said:

Maybe. I'm always wary of creating a very large number of blocks that are specialized. The ones in the mod currently were determined some way back to be the most widely optimized. 

That's understandable.  In case it helps, here's my reasoning:

The presence of top/bottom nozzles (whether there are both, or just one) depends on whether you're putting separate blocks at the top and bottom of the vessel, or one block in the middle.  The angle of the side nozzles (90° or 180° apart) depends on where you're positioning the blocks around the vessel: north/south/east/west vs. northeast/southeast/northwest/southwest.  Those two things are generally independent of each other, so it makes sense to provide all four combinations; none is really more specialized than the others.  You have two of the four configurations already, so I'm proposing the other two to complete the set.

In a recent lander design, I needed RCS blocks at the top and bottom because there was other stuff in the middle.  At the top, I used RX-15T thrusters on the 45° faces of a mk1 lander can.  On the fuel tank at the bottom, those 45° positions were occupied by the landing legs, so I needed the RCS blocks at the north/south/east/west positions.  An RX-45 with no top nozzle would be ideal for that.

As for the RX-15T with added top nozzle, it looks like that's what the Apollo LEM used.

Edited July 11, 2017 by Wyzard

[AmpCat]

@Nertea, Not sure if this is a typo or not, but the H500-576 hydrogen tank costs 13,256, and stores 288k units of hydrogen. The huge spherical H1000-1152 tank stores twice as much, at 574k units, but costs a whooping 174,512. Not sure if this is just paying more for coolness, inverse economy of scale, or a 10x typo in the cost.

Also, the H375-144, when using the compact meshes (but not the bare) has the surface attachment nodes at a 2.5m diameter, rather than 3.75m like the other model skin variants.

[mikegarrison]

[This may actually be more relevant to Kerbal Atomics. I'm not sure which engines are in which pack.]

So I tried out the dual-mode atomic lift/cruise rocket today. I stuck a bunch of LH2 tanks onto it and one O2 tank. I had no idea what the correct ratio should be, but I seem to have guessed OK.

First thing that happened is that I hit the stage button and ... nothing. I finally clicked on the NF menu button and found that I had to turn on the reactor and then let it heat up. OK.

So now we go to space! It launched and had great thrust levels, like 2.5g. And I had eyeballed the oxygen correctly, it seems, because it ran out at like 30km or so, where I didn't need so much thrust anymore. I had it in manual mode so it shut off, though. I later tried it again in automatic mode and it seamlessly switched to LH2 mode. Nice.

OK great. I had Mechjeb flying the ship, and it decided to coast a while and then circularize. But problem. Going into timewarp with the reactor turned on caused it to overheat and shut down.

I had not included any heat radiation on the ship. So I put some on and tried it again. Nope, again the reactor overheated and shut down as soon as I went into warp. Also, I lost electrical power because the reactor had been my only source for that.

So I tried turning down the reactor to a lower power. I found that I could turn it down to only a few percent and it would still put out 50 ec/s. However, when the engine started up again, the ISP had dropped to nothing. I guess it really needs the reactor at full power to generate the ISP.

All right, I decided I had figured this out. I would have the reactor turned up all the way for the burn, then turn it down for time warp. So what happened? As soon as I went above 100 timewarp my ship exploded. Every part of it was gone -- except for the reactor/engine itself!

So ... what's the intended behavior? Am I intended to have to restart the reactor every time I want to do a burn and then shut it down again when I'm done? Obviously that means I'll need another source of power, like an electrical generating reactor.

Edited July 11, 2017 by mikegarrison

[mikegarrison]

1 hour ago, AmpCat said:

@Nertea, Not sure if this is a typo or not, but the H500-576 hydrogen tank costs 13,256, and stores 288k units of hydrogen. The huge spherical H1000-1152 tank stores twice as much, at 574k units, but costs a whooping 174,512. Not sure if this is just paying more for coolness, inverse economy of scale, or a 10x typo in the cost.

Also, the H375-144, when using the compact meshes (but not the bare) has the surface attachment nodes at a 2.5m diameter, rather than 3.75m like the other model skin variants.

Tank	Volume	Price
H125-4	2000	900
H125-8	4000	1400
H250-16	8000	2700
H250-32	16000	5300
H250-64	32000	10000
H375-72	36000	11400
H375-144	72000	22800
H500-288	144000	19600
H500-576 H1000-1152	288000 576000	13250 174500

So yeah, the H1000 is way, way out of whack. Just realized the H1000 is not out of whack. It's about 3 LH2 units for each money unit, like the others. It's the H500 tanks that are way out of whack. They should cost about 45000 and 90000 or so.

Edited July 11, 2017 by mikegarrison

[Streetwind]

3 hours ago, smotheredrun said:

So I take a few days/weeks of not really checking the forums for anything other than PMs, and then FAWUMP!  @Nertea and @Streetwind go and drop this new pack on us.  Thanks guys!  Going to try those new parts out soon!

Just for the sake of correct attribution - I had nothing to do with this pack. While I help out occasionally with some of them, Nertea still does by far the most work, and deserves all the credit!

 

1 hour ago, mikegarrison said:

[This may actually be more relevant to Kerbal Atomics. I'm not sure which engines are in which pack.]

Well, it seems like you're running the optional extra NF Electrical / Kerbal Atomics integration patch. Which, last I checked, was a big work-in-progress. It may or may not work as intended.

If you're looking for consistent behavior, it may be better to just use the engines without the optional patch.