[1.12.x] Near Future Technologies (September 6)

[Warzouz]

@Nertea, I can't find a 3.75 docking port in your pack (but there is a 5m one). Do I miss something ?

[JedTech]

On 1/29/2018 at 3:37 PM, kerbalfreak said:

Would be very nice to use Tweakscale on the Near Future Launch Vehicles

I've updated the NFT Tweakscale config that Tweakscale comes with. I've submitted as a Pull Request for the Tweakscale developer. Meanwhile you can use this:

	//Region ** NF LaunchVehicles **
	
		//Region ** Command **
		
			//5m Drone Core
			@PART[drone-core-5-1]
			{
				%MODULE[TweakScale]
				{
					type = stack
					defaultScale = 5
				}
			}	

			//7.5m Drone Core
			@PART[drone-core-75-1]
			{
				%MODULE[TweakScale]
				{
					type = stack
					defaultScale = 7.5
				}
			}	
			
		///Region ** Command **
		
		//Region ** Coupling **
		
			//5m Decoupler
			@PART[decoupler-5-1]
			{
				%MODULE[TweakScale]
				{
					type = stack
					defaultScale = 5
				}
			}

			//7.5m Decoupler
			@PART[decoupler-75-1]
			{
				%MODULE[TweakScale]
				{
					type = stack
					defaultScale = 7.5
				}
			}

			//Radial decoupler
			@PART[decoupler-radial-1]
			{
				%MODULE[TweakScale]
				{
					type = free
				}
			}	

			//5m Docking Port
			@PART[docking-5-1]
			{
				%MODULE[TweakScale]
				{
					type = stack
					defaultScale = 5
				}
			}			
		
		///Region ** Coupling **
		
		//Region ** Electrical **
		
			//5m Battery
			@PART[battery-stack-5-1]
			{
				%MODULE[TweakScale]
				{
					type = stack
					defaultScale = 5
				}
			}			
		
		///Region ** Electrical **
		
		//Region ** Engine **
		
			//Engine - 2.5m Sustainer - Blue Origin BE-4
			@PART[engine-lfo-25-1]
			{
				#@TWEAKSCALEBEHAVIOR[Engine]/MODULE[TweakScale]{}
				%MODULE[TweakScale]
				{
					type = stack
					defaultScale = 2.5
				}
			}

			//Engine - 2.5m Upper stage - Raptor Vacuum
			@PART[engine-lfo-advanced-25-2]
			{
				#@TWEAKSCALEBEHAVIOR[Engine]/MODULE[TweakScale]{}
				%MODULE[TweakScale]
				{
					type = stack
					defaultScale = 2.5
				}
			}		

			//Engine - 125m Sustainer - SpaceX Raptor
			@PART[engine-lfo-advanced-125-1]
			{
				#@TWEAKSCALEBEHAVIOR[Engine]/MODULE[TweakScale]{}
				%MODULE[TweakScale]
				{
					type = stack
					defaultScale = 1.25
				}
			}

			//Engine - 125m Upper stage - RS-18
			@PART[engine-lfo-125-2]
			{
				#@TWEAKSCALEBEHAVIOR[Engine]/MODULE[TweakScale]{}
				%MODULE[TweakScale]
				{
					type = stack
					defaultScale = 1.25
				}
			}		
		
		///Region ** Engine **
		
		//Region ** FuelTank **	
		
			//5m fuel tank - 15m
			@PART[fueltank-5-1]
			{
				%MODULE[TweakScale]
				{
					type = stack
					defaultScale = 5
				}
			}

			//5m fuel tank - 7.5m
			@PART[fueltank-5-2]
			{
				%MODULE[TweakScale]
				{
					type = stack
					defaultScale = 5
				}
			}	

			//5m fuel tank - 3.75m
			@PART[fueltank-5-3]
			{
				%MODULE[TweakScale]
				{
					type = stack
					defaultScale = 5
				}
			}					

			//5m fuel tank - 1.875m
			@PART[fueltank-5-4]
			{
				%MODULE[TweakScale]
				{
					type = stack
					defaultScale = 5
				}
			}

			//5m to 3.75m adapter, tall
			@PART[fueltank-adapter-5-375-1]
			{
				%MODULE[TweakScale]
				{
					type = stack
					defaultScale = 5
				}
			}

			//5m to 3.75m adapter, short
			@PART[fueltank-adapter-5-375-2]
			{
				%MODULE[TweakScale]
				{
					type = stack
					defaultScale = 5
				}
			}

			//5m to 3.75m adapter, flat
			@PART[fueltank-adapter-5-375-3]
			{
				%MODULE[TweakScale]
				{
					type = stack
					defaultScale = 5
				}
			}

			//5m to 3.75m adapter, short
			@PART[fueltank-nosecone-5-1]
			{
				%MODULE[TweakScale]
				{
					type = stack
					defaultScale = 5
				}
			}	

			//7.5m fuel tank - 15m
			@PART[fueltank-75-1]
			{
				%MODULE[TweakScale]
				{
					type = stack
					defaultScale = 7.5
				}
			}	

			//7.5m fuel tank - 7.5m
			@PART[fueltank-75-2]
			{
				%MODULE[TweakScale]
				{
					type = stack
					defaultScale = 7.5
				}
			}

			//7.5m fuel tank - 3.75m
			@PART[fueltank-75-3]
			{
				%MODULE[TweakScale]
				{
					type = stack
					defaultScale = 7.5
				}
			}

			//7.5m fuel tank - 1.875m
			@PART[fueltank-75-4]
			{
				%MODULE[TweakScale]
				{
					type = stack
					defaultScale = 7.5
				}
			}

			//7.5m to 5m adapter, tall
			@PART[fueltank-adapter-75-5-1]
			{
				%MODULE[TweakScale]
				{
					type = stack
					defaultScale = 7.5
				}
			}

			//7.5m to 5m adapter, short
			@PART[fueltank-adapter-75-5-2]
			{
				%MODULE[TweakScale]
				{
					type = stack
					defaultScale = 7.5
				}
			}			
			
		///Region ** FuelTank **
		
		//Region ** Payload **
		
			//5m Cargo Bay
			@PART[cargo-5-1]
			{
				%MODULE[TweakScale]
				{
					type = stack
					defaultScale = 5
				}
			}

			//5m Cargo Bay - Half
			@PART[cargo-5-2]
			{
				%MODULE[TweakScale]
				{
					type = stack
					defaultScale = 5
				}
			}

			//5m Cargo Bay - Quarter
			@PART[cargo-5-3]
			{
				%MODULE[TweakScale]
				{
					type = stack
					defaultScale = 5
				}
			}

			//5m Cargo Bay - Eighth
			@PART[cargo-5-4]
			{
				%MODULE[TweakScale]
				{
					type = stack
					defaultScale = 5
				}
			}

			//5m Cargo Nose Bay
			@PART[cargo-nose-5-1]
			{
				%MODULE[TweakScale]
				{
					type = stack
					defaultScale = 5
				}
			}

			//5m Service bay
			@PART[service-bay-5-1]
			{
				%MODULE[TweakScale]
				{
					type = stack
					defaultScale = 5
				}
			}			
		
		///Region ** Payload **
		
		//Region ** RCS **
		
			//Heavy aerodynamic RCS
			@PART[rcs-aero-heavy-1]
			{
				#@TWEAKSCALEBEHAVIOR[Engine]/MODULE[TweakScale]{}
				%MODULE[TweakScale]
				{
					type = free
				}
			}	

			//Heavy aerodynamic RCS - 2
			@PART[rcs-aero-heavy-2]
			{
				#@TWEAKSCALEBEHAVIOR[Engine]/MODULE[TweakScale]{}
				%MODULE[TweakScale]
				{
					type = free
				}
			}		

			//Heavy single RCS nozzle
			@PART[rcs-heavy-1way-1]
			{
				#@TWEAKSCALEBEHAVIOR[Engine]/MODULE[TweakScale]{}
				%MODULE[TweakScale]
				{
					type = free
				}
			}

			//Heavy Quad RCS nozzle
			@PART[rcs-heavy-4way-1]
			{
				#@TWEAKSCALEBEHAVIOR[Engine]/MODULE[TweakScale]{}
				%MODULE[TweakScale]
				{
					type = free
				}
			}

			//IVF RCS
			@PART[rcs-integrated-1]
			{
				#@TWEAKSCALEBEHAVIOR[Engine]/MODULE[TweakScale]{}
				%MODULE[TweakScale]
				{
					type = free
				}
			}			
		
		///Region ** RCS **
		
		//Region ** Structural **
		
			//5m Cluster Mount - Energia
			@PART[cluster-mount-5-1]
			{
				%MODULE[TweakScale]
				{
					type = stack
					defaultScale = 5
				}
			}	

			//5m Cluster Mount - New Glenn
			@PART[cluster-mountr5-2]
			{
				%MODULE[TweakScale]
				{
					type = stack
					defaultScale = 5
				}
			}

			//7.5m Cluster Mount - ITS Lower Stage
			@PART[cluster-mount-75-1]
			{
				%MODULE[TweakScale]
				{
					type = stack
					defaultScale = 7.5
				}
			}

			//7.5m Cluster Mount - ITS Upper Stage
			@PART[cluster-mount-75-2]
			{
				%MODULE[TweakScale]
				{
					type = stack
					defaultScale = 7.5
				}
			}	

			//5m to 3.75m adapter, skeletal
			@PART[skeletal-adapter-5-1]
			{
				%MODULE[TweakScale]
				{
					type = stack
					defaultScale = 3.75
				}
			}			
		
		///Region ** Structural **		

	///Region ** NF LaunchVehicles **

 

[Itsdavyjones]

So i was just making a craft, and noticed something odd.  The A101 argon tank holds 112000 argon gas, yet the ARK-MI-56, which is larger visually, holds less argon at 56000. Is it supposed to be this way?

https://imgur.com/a/C4pFz

The ARK tank is on the left, A101 on the right.  

Edited February 13, 2018 by Itsdavyjones

[Jimbodiah]

On 10-2-2018 at 9:48 PM, Nertea said:

I'd totally accept PRs to support more rtgs.

In the new Beta16 release for Probes+ there is a patch added for this functionality.

Edited February 13, 2018 by Jimbodiah

[Nertea]

On 2/13/2018 at 12:11 AM, Itsdavyjones said:

So i was just making a craft, and noticed something odd.  The A101 argon tank holds 112000 argon gas, yet the ARK-MI-56, which is larger visually, holds less argon at 56000. Is it supposed to be this way?

https://imgur.com/a/C4pFz

The ARK tank is on the left, A101 on the right.  

Good find, I'll look into it. 

On 2/12/2018 at 1:35 PM, Warzouz said:

@Nertea, I can't find a 3.75 docking port in your pack (but there is a 5m one). Do I miss something ?

Yeah, there are none, sorry.

[b0ss]

What's the rationale for making some solar panels un-retractable? (besides balancing)

[JadeOfMaar]

6 minutes ago, b0ss said:

What's the rationale for making some solar panels un-retractable? (besides balancing)

Easy. For the ones that appear in the early game, the tech (or the need for it) wouldn't exist yet that the solar panel should be retractable. For the large and late game ones, they're meant to be installed on vessels whose situation will never change, like stations and motherships that can't do landings. Also, the large ones would be too much trouble to build retract ability into irl.

[Jimbodiah]

You hardly need the large one unless you have them on stations. Vessels that need to retract them tend to be landers, and they don't require much charge to warrant the large panels.

If you feel strongly about it, you can always change the cfg file or make MM patch for it.

[Nertea]

14 minutes ago, b0ss said:

What's the rationale for making some solar panels un-retractable? (besides balancing)

If you want a real reason, a lot of these highly fragile structures IRL are not designed to retract in order to save mass on hardware that would be required to re-fold or store the folded array.

In this mod, non-retractable arrays have a mass bonus as well. 

[b0ss]

Oh nah I thought it was cool and an interesting thing I hadn't thought of before. It seemed realistic to me and I liked that, but I wasn't 100% sure *why* it did. Thanks for all of your super fast responses. And a big thanks to you Nertea for making so many beautifully-made and useful part packs!

[MaximumThrust]

The monopropellant engines should produce flames and the nozzle became red due to the heat? I know that are some monoprops that decompose in chemical reactions, like H2O2, just curious.

The capacitors have some correlation with real-life capacitors? I know, the whole EC system in Kerbal don't seem to be much realistic, and I find the capacitors interesting in the gameplay. Just curious again.

And would be very nice to have a patch to convert everything in Near Future Propulsion to work with Xenon, like the patch that convert the hall thrusters. I really appreciate all the work, the very cool FXs, but I like to keep things simple, without having to add a lot of new tanks. I use all the nuclear and cryo engines with the patches for them to work with liquid fuel, and I really prefer this way.

Thanks for the awesome mods!

Edited February 16, 2018 by MaximumThrust

[DStaal]

27 minutes ago, MaximumThrust said:

The monopropellant engines should produce flames and the nozzle became red due to the heat? I know that are some monoprops that decompose in chemical reactions, like H2O2, just curious.

Technically, 'normal' rocket engines decompose in chemical reactions...  (Or oxidize, I guess would be the better term.)

But yeah, I guessing the monoprop wouldn't be very useful it wasn't producing enough heat to form plasma, so they should be showing flames.  (Red nozzle is debatable - typically if metal is glowing red, it's also melting, which wouldn't be a good thing.  But dull red is right on the border, and that's probably where you'd engineer your engines to be.  Thinner/less cooling and they'd melt, thicker/more cooling and there's excess mass.)

[Streetwind]

41 minutes ago, MaximumThrust said:

The capacitors have some correlation with real-life capacitors?

They do not, no. They actually work more like RL batteries, while stock KSP batteries work more like IRL supercapacitors.   But that's just a superficial comparison.

Ultimately Nertea wanted a way to allow people to carry more EC storage without making regular batteries completely redundant in the process. That's what drove the majority of the design work.

 

41 minutes ago, MaximumThrust said:

And would be very nice to have a patch to convert everything in Near Future Propulsion to work with Xenon, like the patch that convert the hall thrusters.

You can actually make a patch like that yourself very easily.

The thing about the xenon hall thrusters patch is that it is in fact more than a fuel switching patch. Nertea has packaged different art assets (different exhaust plumes and sounds) and implements them instead of the normal argon effects. In fact, 95% of what that patch does is configuring visual and audio effects.

The actual switching of the fuel type takes like 3-4 short lines per engine. So if all you're after is switching the fuel, it's a relatively quick and easy tweak to make. (I say "relatively" because you still need to understand how propellant ratios work in KSP's engines in order to correctly adjust the EC consumption after switching the fuel.)

 

9 minutes ago, DStaal said:

Red nozzle is debatable - typically if metal is glowing red, it's also melting, which wouldn't be a good thing.

You'd be surprised how big of a difference there is between "metal is glowing" and "metal is melting".   Lead, Gold and Mercury melt without showing any glow at all, and steel easily maintains its shape well into bright yellow (although it doesn't maintain its resistance to forceful deformation quite as well).

Rocket nozzles are made from materials chosen specifically to be able to maintain their shape under the full thrust load of the engine, regardless of what color the nozzle shows. Example: the niobium alloy nozzle of the Merlin-1D Vacuum engine on Falcon 9 upper stages, which is not regeneratively cooled and glows quite cheerfully throughout its entire burn.

 

Edited February 16, 2018 by Streetwind

[MaximumThrust]

Thanks @DStaal and @Streetwind!

Searching about it I found out that hydrazine (N2H4) can produce hot exhaust gases, only passing by a catalyst. I thought mono-propellants where only pressurized gases, so I found strange them to have a flame. 

About the electric engines, I'll keep them original and enjoy all the work that have been done in this mod. With TweakScale is possible to keep only 3 or 4 tanks for each type of fuel without missing anything, and a lot of mods allows to change it's tanks into Xenon/Argon/Lithium.

[viperwolf]

I just wanted to say, I tried your construction mod bc it looked interesting.  Wow, i was amazed at  the work you did with this. It was a little confusing and searched Youtube to find a showcase. KottabosGames had a nice showcase for it, and he mentioned you had other mods. I found this forum page here, and saw the others mentioned. Im very impressed by your creations, and so Im starting my entire career over. I want to have your parts from the beginning and getting rid of some old faithful parts IVe used for making things for a while. Thank you for this, its some of the best mods in KSP. I hope you will continue to update this. Donation is coming!

Edited February 22, 2018 by viperwolf

[b0ss]

@Nertea I've never seen ring-shaped solar panels before and I just can't figure them out! What exactly are they useful for? I would've thought that because a lot of the ring isn't facing the sun directly they'd be terribly inefficient. Do they have any practical purpose IRL?

13 hours ago, viperwolf said:

I just wanted to say, I tried your construction mod bc it looked interesting.  Wow, i was amazed at  the work you did with this. It was a little confusing and searched Youtube to find a showcase. KottabosGames had a nice showcase for it, and he mentioned you had other mods. I found this forum page here, and saw the others mentioned. Im very impressed by your creations, and so Im starting my entire career over. I want to have your parts from the beginning and getting rid of some old faithful parts IVe used for making things for a while. Thank you for this, its some of the best mods in KSP. I hope you will continue to update this. Donation is coming!

You should also try Universal Storage! The parts are made as well as Nertea's, possibly even better than stock, and they are quite useful too

 

 

[mostlydave]

2 hours ago, b0ss said:

@Nertea I've never seen ring-shaped solar panels before and I just can't figure them out! What exactly are they useful for? I would've thought that because a lot of the ring isn't facing the sun directly they'd be terribly inefficient. Do they have any practical purpose IRL?

You should also try Universal Storage! The parts are made as well as Nertea's, possibly even better than stock, and they are quite useful too

 

 

Are the WIP parts actually available somewhere?

[Streetwind]

8 hours ago, b0ss said:

Do they have any practical purpose IRL?

Even if only a part of the panel faces the sun at all times, that's not necessarily a downside... because a part of the panel faces the sun at all times. You don't need sun tracking hardware and software, or waste propellant on managing your spacecraft's orientation. Plenty of RL spacecraft have panels all around their outside, two thirds of which aren't useful for creating power at any given time. They are still a widely employed solution.

As for the extending ring panels in NFT? They look freaking cool  

[b0ss]

9 hours ago, mostlydave said:

Are the WIP parts actually available somewhere?

I linked the wrong thread 

 

3 hours ago, Streetwind said:

Even if only a part of the panel faces the sun at all times, that's not necessarily a downside... because a part of the panel faces the sun at all times. You don't need sun tracking hardware and software, or waste propellant on managing your spacecraft's orientation. Plenty of RL spacecraft have panels all around their outside, two thirds of which aren't useful for creating power at any given time. They are still a widely employed solution.

As for the extending ring panels in NFT? They look freaking cool  

Right, but aren't the extendable ring solar cells in NFT kinda too thin to be useful for anything? Is there any upside to having them extend?

[Streetwind]

9 minutes ago, b0ss said:

Is there any upside to having them extend?

Yes.  

[b0ss]

God dammit

For real though. Wouldn't extending them make them less efficient? If they are no longer touching the rest of the spacecraft then they can't transfer nearly as much heat to the rest of the vehicle and they'd become terribly hot

[Jimbodiah]

They are solar panels, not radiators. How do the ISS panels not melt? Are you one of those guys that thinks the Roadster should melt in space because reasons?

[Gilph]

the efficiency is what it is, based on the rating. I had preferred the curved panels that fit the 2.5 parts because they were more efficient and the extendible ones I treat as more art than function, and I am not a great artist when if comes to vessel building.

The curved panels came in very handy when Kopernicus had a bug that caused solar panels to not track the correct sun if more than one light-emitting sun was defined. To get around it, I made all of my stations with curved panels and oriented the stations in a Normal position (perpendicular to the Sun plane). As the station revolved around the planet, the side that faced the sun generated EC, and the part in shade didn't, but I did not have to worry about panel tracking. It worked so well that I no longer use extending panels anymore.

[b0ss]

5 hours ago, Jimbodiah said:

They are solar panels, not radiators. How do the ISS panels not melt? Are you one of those guys that thinks the Roadster should melt in space because reasons?

I didn't say anything about melting. The ISS panels keep cool by pumping liquid ammonia around them and then sending the heat to the radiators.

 

I don't see where I ever said anything about SpaceX, what are you projecting your anger on me for? Are Elon Musk fans becoming the new PC Police?

[Jimbodiah]

Haha, not anger just poking the bear