[1.12.x] Near Future Technologies (September 6)

[Cheeky_Gaming10]

17 hours ago, KeaKaka said:

What?

These mods have been receiving regular updates. Your misconception probably stems from the date of the first post. If you look at the "last updated" line under the title of the mod you can get a better perspective.

1.12.X updates are coming, just give them time.

sorry im pretty new so i dont know which mod devs are active or which mods are still being updated regularly. The modding section is huge and pretty overwhelming. i looked at the last updated section and see its still being updated, thanks

[modus]

The title of the thread is also kind of a hint 

[Nertea]

23 hours ago, Rakete said:

Can you translate #1 for non-Programmers? I love NF electrical in combination with NF propulsion. What's going to change and why? Just curious. ;-)

Will we have to use SystemHeat (whether we like it or not) to be able to use NF electical in future?

The stock heating system isn't very stable. I prefer the one I wrote, which is stable, more customizable and has a better user interface. 

[Rakete]

10 minutes ago, Nertea said:

The stock heating system isn't very stable. I prefer the one I wrote, which is stable, more customizable and has a better user interface. 

Yeah, understandable. Somehow I hope i find some youtube video on System heat, as I didn't really get, how it works with fluxes and temperatures from the SH opening posting. Reality physics are clear, but how it's abstracted in SH... Some good hint to a good video on System heat ?

 

Does SH only effect modules that had core heat (generation or sink), or other parts as well. 

Do the cooling loops bring extra mass etc. to a craft, or will old vehicles continue to function as they were before?

Edited July 1, 2021 by Rakete

[Nertea]

57 minutes ago, Rakete said:

Yeah, understandable. Somehow I hope i find some youtube video on System heat, as I didn't really get, how it works with fluxes and temperatures from the SH opening posting. Reality physics are clear, but how it's abstracted in SH... Some good hint to a good video on System heat ?

 

I dislike video things, they take a lot of time to make. Did you go through the tutorial? https://github.com/post-kerbin-mining-corporation/SystemHeat/wiki

58 minutes ago, Rakete said:

Does SH only effect modules that had core heat (generation or sink), or other parts as well. 

 

Only those

58 minutes ago, Rakete said:

Do the cooling loops bring extra mass etc. to a craft, or will old vehicles continue to function as they were before?

Old craft won't work well. So there will be one 1.12 update to the old NFE mechanics, then that branch will no longer be maintained. 

[Rakete]

17 hours ago, Nertea said:

I dislike video things, they take a lot of time to make. Did you go through the tutorial? https://github.com/post-kerbin-mining-corporation/SystemHeat/wiki

Only those

Old craft won't work well. So there will be one 1.12 update to the old NFE mechanics, then that branch will no longer be maintained. 

Okay some further question into more detail:

(I know some questions belong to SH (and some to NFE), but we started talking about it here and moving over he questions to another thread might confuse, that's why I ask here)

 

#1 To the video: I didn't mean a video from you. Could be from someone else. You know, there a many ksp-youtubers.  I'll have a look. (But maybe your answers of the following open questions will help me out, that i don't have to watch youtuber-guys playing KSP)

#2: I've gone through the tutorial of SH. Somethings in there i didn't get right. In the screenshots of the tutorial with the ISRU, you say it is on its optimal temperature, but it's below the desired 500K. It says 346/500K. So does a too low temperature affect the part effiency of a ISRU or a reactor? Is there a kind of over-cooling, which should be worried about (Kerbals do now about PI-Regulators and thermostats to regulate the cooling power, do they?)

#3: so old crafts, that do not have some Core-heat producing parts will not be impacted and will still work fine, if I install system heat? (I'm looking on my stock nerva powered workhorses, which i highly optimized).

#4: Will cooling panels still additionally reduce the heat of the whole craft (especially the stock nerv-engines which tend get a little hot with longer burns, but don't have core heat mechanics (i do not want to install the extra-patch for the nerva) )?

#5: the cooling panels listed in the tutorial show an ideal temp. at 1000K. If I combine them with a reactor of 800K Target-Temp, they do not reach their fully potential. Does the cooling ability scale linear between 0 and 1000K?

#6: what about cooling panels that are made for 350K. What happens, if they are used on 800K loops? Do they loose their ability to cool or do they stay at max? Do they melt? If they ramp down, is it linear?

#7: you say SH is a simulator. Is it heavy load on KSPs CPU-Footprint? Do these additional simulations (don't know how efficient your iterative loop is) have a hard impact on the FPS on bigger vessels?

#8: Is NF Electrical in the current released version already compatible to system heat, or only with your upcoming 1.12 -Update?

#9: As a backup:  so if someone is not yet perfectly convinced yet to love SH, one should stick to the current version von NF Electrical, as it is the last version to be backwards compatible to the stock-heat system, right? Just in case...

 

 

@Nertea Please don't regard this as complaint. It's just wanting to understand more. Don't be mad on me. Looking forward to your answer. Really really like your stuff.

 

Edited July 2, 2021 by Rakete

[Nertea]

9 hours ago, Rakete said:

#2: I've gone through the tutorial of SH. Somethings in there i didn't get right. In the screenshots of the tutorial with the ISRU, you say it is on its optimal temperature, but it's below the desired 500K. It says 346/500K. So does a too low temperature affect the part effiency of a ISRU or a reactor? Is there a kind of over-cooling, which should be worried about (Kerbals do now about PI-Regulators and thermostats to regulate the cooling power, do they?)

 

I took the screenshot before the temperature had stabilized, that will have to be corrected. There's nothing in SH about temperatures being too low - that is too much complexity. 

9 hours ago, Rakete said:

#3: so old crafts, that do not have some Core-heat producing parts will not be impacted and will still work fine, if I install system heat? (I'm looking on my stock nerva powered workhorses, which i highly optimized).

Yes there will be no effect there. In fact, unless you install the compatibility patches SH won't even touch core heat parts. 

9 hours ago, Rakete said:

#4: Will cooling panels still additionally reduce the heat of the whole craft (especially the stock nerv-engines which tend get a little hot with longer burns, but don't have core heat mechanics (i do not want to install the extra-patch for the nerva) )?

 

Yes, the 'internal' and 'skin' cooling systems from stock are untouched.

9 hours ago, Rakete said:

#5: the cooling panels listed in the tutorial show an ideal temp. at 1000K. If I combine them with a reactor of 800K Target-Temp, they do not reach their fully potential. Does the cooling ability scale linear between 0 and 1000K?

It's currently linear (which is wrong, should be quartic), for easier player understanding. 

9 hours ago, Rakete said:

#6: what about cooling panels that are made for 350K. What happens, if they are used on 800K loops? Do they loose their ability to cool or do they stay at max? Do they melt? If they ramp down, is it linear?

They just operate at their maximum rate - anything else would be really player-annoying.

9 hours ago, Rakete said:

#7: you say SH is a simulator. Is it heavy load on KSPs CPU-Footprint? Do these additional simulations (don't know how efficient your iterative loop is) have a hard impact on the FPS on bigger vessels?

It is very small, it may actually be faster than core heat. 

9 hours ago, Rakete said:

#8: Is NF Electrical in the current released version already compatible to system heat, or only with your upcoming 1.12 -Update?

Yes if you install the compatibility extra. 

9 hours ago, Rakete said:

#9: As a backup:  so if someone is not yet perfectly convinced yet to love SH, one should stick to the current version von NF Electrical, as it is the last version to be backwards compatible to the stock-heat system, right? Just in case...

I will increment the NFE version to 2.x when I do this. All 1.x releases will use core heat, 2.x will use SH. 

[Rakete]

1 hour ago, Nertea said:

I took the screenshot before the temperature had stabilized, that will have to be corrected. There's nothing in SH about temperatures being too low - that is too much complexity. 

Yes there will be no effect there. In fact, unless you install the compatibility patches SH won't even touch core heat parts. 

Yes, the 'internal' and 'skin' cooling systems from stock are untouched.

It's currently linear (which is wrong, should be quartic), for easier player understanding. 

They just operate at their maximum rate - anything else would be really player-annoying.

It is very small, it may actually be faster than core heat. 

Yes if you install the compatibility extra. 

I will increment the NFE version to 2.x when I do this. All 1.x releases will use core heat, 2.x will use SH. 

Thanks, It made things so much clearer. Thanks for descisions to avoid player annoyance instead of perfect physical correctness. KSP is still a game, so thank you for that! But I think I found a bug in SH. Look in the SH thread, if you want.

I'm a bit confused, that the reactor controlls totally changed after installing System Heat. Now with hibernation and some kind of power regulation... I'm kinda sure, these option were not there before.

 

[Nertea]

1 hour ago, Rakete said:

Thanks, It made things so much clearer. Thanks for descisions to avoid player annoyance instead of perfect physical correctness. KSP is still a game, so thank you for that! But I think I found a bug in SH. Look in the SH thread, if you want.

I'm a bit confused, that the reactor controlls totally changed after installing System Heat. Now with hibernation and some kind of power regulation... I'm kinda sure, these option were not there before.

 

Yes, there are some changes but I'd ask you to please bring these to the SH thread instead of here to limit confusion. 

[funnelton]

Will the PPD-24 utility pod from near future spacecraft get an IVA? Thanks!

[Nertea]

Pretty sure it already has one!

[funnelton]

Oof, re-installed the mod and seems that I deleted it's IVA while removing a command pod I didn't need, sorry 

[Rakete]

As for NF Solar:

With 1.12 we'll have now some visual overlap (e.g. the circular ones) with new stock parts from squad. How will NF Solar handle these parts in future? Will they be removed from the mod, or will the new 1.12 stock parts will be stopped from loading, or will both coexist? What are your (Nertea) thoughts/visions/plans on this?

Edited July 8, 2021 by Rakete

[Nertea]

On 7/6/2021 at 3:32 PM, Rakete said:

As for NF Solar:

With 1.12 we'll have now some visual overlap (e.g. the circular ones) with new stock parts from squad. How will NF Solar handle these parts in future? Will they be removed from the mod, or will the new 1.12 stock parts will be stopped from loading, or will both coexist? What are your (Nertea) thoughts/visions/plans on this?

It's not very overlapping. The new round panels are somewhat larger than the NFS ones, so both can exist differently. They also (once restock gets out) will have different segment counts (8 vs 12) and should be decently visually unique. I don't have any plans to edit this, aside from possibly an optional patch that fixes the new panels' power:area ratio which is, of course, inconsistent with everything else in the game. 

[Rakete]

48 minutes ago, Nertea said:

 new panels' power:area ratio which is, of course, inconsistent with everything else in the game. 

I think the squad part makers don't think of parts and their fitting in the parts continuum as much as you do. Thank you very much for all your patches and corrective interventions! *thumps up*

[Omnipius]

I'm having an issue with Dynamic Battery Storage as a dependency for NFE. This is causing NFE to get kicked out of my RO/RP-1/Kerbalism build now that DBS conflicts with Kerbalism. I've been told that NFE might not technically require DBS. If DBS is not actually required, can the CKAN relationships be changed or overridden?

Edited July 9, 2021 by Omnipius
I apparently can't read.

[Nertea]

2 hours ago, Omnipius said:

I'm having an issue with Dynamic Battery Storage as a dependency for NFE. This is causing NFE to get kicked out of my RO/RP-1/Kerbalism build now that DBS conflicts with Kerbalism. I've been told that NFE might not technically require DBS. If DBS is not actually required, can the CKAN relationships be changed or overridden?

I would prefer not. I had an RO person contact me with this knowledge and they said the Kerbalism people would probably look into why the 'disable DBS' switch is not working for them.

ORing DBS or Kerbalism will imply to the user that either are possible solutions. Kerbalism is not a supported solution (by me) because it massively changes all mechanics of NFE.

[Spaceman.Spiff]

2 hours ago, Omnipius said:

I'm having an issue with Dynamic Battery Storage as a dependency for NFE. This is causing NFE to get kicked out of my RO/RP-1/Kerbalism build now that DBS conflicts with Kerbalism. I've been told that NFE might not technically require DBS. If DBS is not actually required, can the CKAN relationships be changed or overridden?

Have CKAN install NFE and DBS and then manually delete DBS if you are using Kerbalism. That is the workaround although it’s only supported by the RO folks not nert

[Xaxutsu]

For whatever reason the command pods from Near Future Spacecraft are bugging out for me. When I put one in for a craft, it places fine. But if I then click it to move it anywhere it disappears (along with anything attached to it / it's attached to). It also doesn't allow the craft to be saved. I'm running 1.8.1 with the mod installed via CKAN. 

I'm running it with a lot of other mods, though it'd be a bit tedious to list them all out. Guess I'll just see if this is a known issue with a specific mod / kind of mod first. If that doesn't help then I'll list out all the mods.

[ayothepizza]

Do the truss connectors snap to angles? 

Edited July 11, 2021 by ayothepizza

[Rakete]

Bug report on NF propulsion: Sound cracks in burn sound of magnetoplasmadynamic engines (very very minor)

The engine burn sound makes periodicly every few seconds a short "bop" sound. Think it's on one of the ends of the engine sound file, so that the short sound occurs on restart of the soundloop. Just a very minor issue, which has not to be adressed anytime soon - Just for completenesses sake :-)

[MARL_Mk1]

Hi Nertea. The Near Future suite has become another one of those must-have mods for me, so I'm eagerly awaiting the 1.12 update.

Just wanted to thank you for your enormous contributions to the community. I can't live without some of your mods in my install! Keep rocking  <3

[Noah Foloni]

From what I can tell all of these mods are 1.12 compatible 

[Rakete]

40 minutes ago, Lijazos said:

Hi Nertea. The Near Future suite has become another one of those must-have mods for me, so I'm eagerly awaiting the 1.12 update.

Just wanted to thank you for your enormous contributions to the community. I can't live without some of your mods in my install! Keep rocking  <3

Signed. They have become "must-have"-Mods for me too.

I also want to say thank you for all those great mods. I really really love them. They are the best thing, that can happen to a KSP Install.

[Dr. Kerbal]

Looks interesting. I may download it.