adsii1970 Posted April 5, 2018 Share Posted April 5, 2018 4 minutes ago, kerbiloid said: Coffee (drink) was invented as a dry dung ash. Nope, this is just one type of coffee. In Ethiopia, the coffee bean was eaten and the seeds dried out for planting. But just as with other seeds, Humans found another use for it. It could be boiled in water for a drink, much like various tea leaves could... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Johnny Wishbone Posted April 5, 2018 Share Posted April 5, 2018 1 minute ago, XB-70A said: Confirmed by this Sea Harrier pilot (forgot his name) who got shot down over Bosnia, and who ate roots, leaves, and insects until he was recovered some days later. Scott O'Grady. He flew a F-16 though, not a Sea Harrier. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scott_O'Grady During the next six days, he put to use the lessons learned during a 17-day Survival, Evasion, Resistance and Escape (SERE) training session he had undertaken near his hometown of Spokane, Washington. He ate leaves, grass, and bugs, and stored the little rainwater he could collect with a sponge in plastic bags Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kerbiloid Posted April 5, 2018 Share Posted April 5, 2018 (edited) 4 minutes ago, XB-70A said: Confirmed by this Sea Harrier pilot (forgot his name) who got shot down over Bosnia, and who ate roots, leaves, and insects until he was recovered some days later. Spoiler (Legend of the Seeker, s1e?) 3 minutes ago, adsii1970 said: Nope, this is just one type of coffee. In Ethiopia, the coffee bean was eaten and the seeds dried out for planting. But others eat this dried, pounded, and fried. Is this a common practice with other foods? While the ash hypothesis makes such solution not just possible, but unavoidable. Edited April 5, 2018 by kerbiloid Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheKSPBeginner Posted April 5, 2018 Share Posted April 5, 2018 (edited) No, that's TheLegend47. Edited April 5, 2018 by TheKSPBeginner Why Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
adsii1970 Posted April 5, 2018 Share Posted April 5, 2018 1 minute ago, kerbiloid said: But others eat this dried, pounded, and fried. Is this a common practice with other foods? While the ash hypothesis makes such solution not just possible, but unavoidable. Yes and understand why... innovation in agriculture and the stretching of foodstuffs had to happen. What you are discussing are early breads, before mankind had learned how to bake. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kerbiloid Posted April 5, 2018 Share Posted April 5, 2018 1 minute ago, TheKSPBeginner said: No, that's TheLegend47. Then Google missed. Legend of the Seeker has absolutely same scene, with Richard and Cara hunting the worms. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
XB-70A Posted April 5, 2018 Share Posted April 5, 2018 2 minutes ago, Johnny Wishbone said: Scott O'Grady. He flew a F-16 though, not a Sea Harrier. I know the story of Captain O'Grady, my point was about Lieutenant Richardson from the RN who was shot down about a year before. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
razark Posted April 5, 2018 Share Posted April 5, 2018 (edited) 4 minutes ago, adsii1970 said: What you are discussing are early breads, before mankind had learned how to bake. I always figured bread was a progression from "The seeds are hard to eat, I'll soak them in hot water" to someone leaving their bowl of porridge a little too close to the fire for a little too long. 6 minutes ago, kerbiloid said: Is this a common practice with other foods? Humans are always trying new things with food. Some of them just happen to work out and stick around. Edited April 5, 2018 by razark Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
adsii1970 Posted April 5, 2018 Share Posted April 5, 2018 Just now, razark said: I always figured bread was a progression from "The seeds are hard to eat, I'll soak them in hot water" to someone leaving their bowl of porridge a little too close to the fire for a little too long. I learned a lot about coffee berries when a graduate assistant. I was assigned to help one of the professors do research for a book project. Learned a lot of stuff about coffee I didn't know. Before then, I never knew that every strand of South American coffee actually originated in Africa... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kerbiloid Posted April 5, 2018 Share Posted April 5, 2018 (edited) 10 minutes ago, adsii1970 said: Yes and understand why... innovation in agriculture and the stretching of foodstuffs had to happen. What you are discussing are early breads, before mankind had learned how to bake. When you eat crops, you soften them with a stone. It's unavoidable. The powder gets dry. Just because. You make them wet with water because dry powder is hard to swallow. Cooking every piece of meat on fire, you use this fire on your piece of mess and get a rough bread. Nothing to be invented. Being a shaman you pour different things (including ashes) into boiling water and give it to drink. If you are living near a coffee forest, there is a lot of coffee remains in the dung of your goats which you use every day as fuel. Customers notice that your medicines make them fresh and like you and your medicines. You (or your competitors) get interested, what's that. You taste your drinks and notice those pieces of coal with strange but tasty taste. You dry, pound, and fry the seeds alone. .... Profit! Nothing to invent. Tales about "shepherds noticed", "peasants realized" are fairy tales. 6 minutes ago, razark said: Humans are always trying new things with food. Chefs. Not peasants. 4 minutes ago, adsii1970 said: I learned a lot about coffee berries when a graduate assistant. From folklore. (I mean that myth origins, of course, not your studies themselves) Today shepherds repeat granny tales about ancient shepherds. Folk history, folk etymology. Like belly dance and others. Edited April 5, 2018 by kerbiloid Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
razark Posted April 5, 2018 Share Posted April 5, 2018 3 minutes ago, kerbiloid said: Chefs. Not peasants. Is not every peasant their own chef? I'm not aware of many peasants that are able to hire a kitchen staff. They, at best, would be the kitchen staff. Also, the peasants would be the ones left with the less desirable foods, and the lesser portions, and would be looking for ways to improve what they had. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kerbiloid Posted April 5, 2018 Share Posted April 5, 2018 1 minute ago, razark said: Is not every peasant their own chef? I'm afraid peasants have two meals in menu (food and no food) until a chief's chef invents something for his boss. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
adsii1970 Posted April 5, 2018 Share Posted April 5, 2018 (edited) 8 minutes ago, kerbiloid said: Chefs. Not peasants. Actually, it is the peasant who innovates more than the chef. It is the chef who takes what the peasant develops and then refines it, knowing it is safe to serve to royalty. @razark: Correct observation. It was the Aztecs who actually taught the Spaniards that founder and other species of fish were good for food. The average Aztec also knew the tomato was safe to eat; in Spain, until Columbus returned from Hispaniola, the Spanish believed tomatoes (the Roma variety) were pretty to look at but poisonous... Edited April 5, 2018 by adsii1970 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kerbiloid Posted April 5, 2018 Share Posted April 5, 2018 (edited) 4 minutes ago, adsii1970 said: Actually, it is the peasant who innovates more than the chef. Actually? Or just every recipe except the simplest ones are made by somebodyys chef and remembered by a smart peasant? Like so-called "folk songs", usually having authors living 20 years before. The greatest peasants' inventions was to add random smelly grasses to the bowl. Dry-pound-fry-boil is a hi-tech. Edited April 5, 2018 by kerbiloid Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Just Jim Posted April 5, 2018 Share Posted April 5, 2018 (edited) There is actually an entire class of dishes now referred to as "Peasant food"... Which I definitely prefer... Wait... we're supposed to be complaining about stuff... I want Peasant Food!!! grrrrr hehehe Edited April 5, 2018 by Just Jim Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kerbiloid Posted April 5, 2018 Share Posted April 5, 2018 1 minute ago, Just Jim said: There is actually an entire class of dishes now referred to as "Peasant food"... Which I definitely prefer... 90% of which were first cooked by Parisian cooks in 1910s. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
adsii1970 Posted April 5, 2018 Share Posted April 5, 2018 Just now, kerbiloid said: Actually? Or just every recipe except the simplest ones are made by somebodyys chef and remembered by a smart peasant? Like so-called "folk songs", usually having authors living 20 years before. Yes. From about 600 to around 1000 CE, more developments in foodstuffs came from the peasants. Hunting was outlawed in most of Europe except for the nobility. In this time, peasants learned more about what was edible to replace the fresh meat. So, from this, hogs head cheese, liverwurst, blood sausage, and even hog's head cheese were developed by peasants as viable meat products, making sure every part of a slaughtered animal (mostly pig) were used. 1 minute ago, Just Jim said: There is actually an entire class of dishes now referred to as "Peasant food"... Which I definitely prefer... Wait... we're supposed to be complaining about stuff... I want Peasant Food!!! grrrrr hehehe At times, I prefer plain comfort food... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Just Jim Posted April 5, 2018 Share Posted April 5, 2018 (edited) 1 minute ago, kerbiloid said: 90% of which were first cooked by Parisian cooks in 1910s. Haggis was Parisian??? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peasant_foods Edited April 5, 2018 by Just Jim Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kerbiloid Posted April 5, 2018 Share Posted April 5, 2018 2 minutes ago, adsii1970 said: From about 600 to around 1000 CE, more developments in foodstuffs came from the peasants. "Peasants" or "not noblemen"? 1 minute ago, Just Jim said: Haggis was Parisian??? Too put all food into a stomach and boil is a complicated recipe? 3 minutes ago, adsii1970 said: So, from this, hogs head cheese, liverwurst, blood sausage, and even hog's head cheese The same. Put all food into an intestine and boil. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
razark Posted April 5, 2018 Share Posted April 5, 2018 (edited) 7 minutes ago, kerbiloid said: Actually? Or just every recipe except the simplest ones are made by somebodyys chef and remembered by a smart peasant? When you have to eat less-than-desirable food, and eat the same less-than-desirable food every day for decades, you end up having a strong motivation to find a new way to prepare it. Or are you actually going to suggest it was some wealthy nobleman who said "Chef, please fetch me some snails from the garden, because I have grown bored eating the finest beef.", rather than someone with nothing else edible in sight saying "Boiled cabbage again?!? I think I'd rather eat this snail than taste the same boiled cabbage I've had every single day of my life!" 3 minutes ago, Just Jim said: Haggis was Parisian??? Some movie quote about most Scottish food being based on a dare comes to mind. Edited April 5, 2018 by razark Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Just Jim Posted April 5, 2018 Share Posted April 5, 2018 Just now, kerbiloid said: Too put all food into a stomach and boil is a complicated recipe? No, not at all.... I just don't believe it was ever a french dish is all... in fact, I'm pretty sure I can imagine most French Chef's reactions to just hearing the word... lmao... 1 minute ago, razark said: Some movie quote about most Scottish food being based on a dare comes to mind. Sorry, I'm out of likes for today Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
razark Posted April 5, 2018 Share Posted April 5, 2018 3 minutes ago, kerbiloid said: Put all food into an intestine and boil. And you're willing to believe this was done by the wealthy class, and not the poor people, scrapping by, trying to make use of the parts of the animal that were left after the "real" meat had been consumed? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kerbiloid Posted April 5, 2018 Share Posted April 5, 2018 (edited) Let me bring an example. A lot of East-European and Asian peoples have tales where ancient heroes eat maiz, their cuisine is based on pepper, tomatoes, maiz, potatoes, so on. All of them are "invented by ancient peasant". But all these plants were brought to Eurasia in XVI, to East Europe and Asia in XIX. "Folk cuisine"? Heh... Cú Chulainn would be shocked looking at potato. Another sample. (Not to offend Neo-Pagans and so). Mysteric Scandinavian runes, futhark. Of unknown origin, sent by gods, etc. Just try to scratch latin letters on a wooden plank with linear texture and see what happens. Bingo, you have invented magic runes. Edited April 5, 2018 by kerbiloid Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Johnny Wishbone Posted April 5, 2018 Share Posted April 5, 2018 38 minutes ago, XB-70A said: I know the story of Captain O'Grady, my point was about Lieutenant Richardson from the RN who was shot down about a year before. Then why didnt you say so in your original post instead of referring to him as (forgot name)? Clearly you could dig up his name for your rebuttal; why not do that in the first place? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
XB-70A Posted April 5, 2018 Share Posted April 5, 2018 1 minute ago, Johnny Wishbone said: Then why didnt you say so in your original post instead of referring to him as (forgot name)? Clearly you could dig up his name for your rebuttal; why not do that in the first place? Natural laziness to search... really. But the fact you mentioned O'Grady, with a link to his page, refreshed my memory well as I have totally forgot that his story happened in 95 (I would have bet it was in 99, which was another F-16), so thanks for it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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