sh1pman Posted February 11, 2020 Share Posted February 11, 2020 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GearsNSuch Posted February 11, 2020 Share Posted February 11, 2020 (edited) Heh. Is there anything that grabbing the best scientists and officials doesn't solve? Edited February 11, 2020 by GearsNSuch Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tater Posted February 11, 2020 Share Posted February 11, 2020 20 minutes ago, GearsNSuch said: Heh. Is there anything that grabbing the best scientists and officials doesn't solve? In the space realm, it might be better to move your factory to AL, I suppose Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xd the great Posted February 12, 2020 Share Posted February 12, 2020 39 minutes ago, GearsNSuch said: Heh. Is there anything that grabbing the best scientists and officials doesn't solve? Fusion Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KerballingSmasher Posted February 12, 2020 Share Posted February 12, 2020 18 hours ago, mikegarrison said: With this talk of mating, did you actually mean "the nsfw thread"? I just died inside... XD Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tater Posted February 12, 2020 Share Posted February 12, 2020 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tater Posted February 12, 2020 Share Posted February 12, 2020 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flavio hc16 Posted February 12, 2020 Share Posted February 12, 2020 the backup window looks way better Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tater Posted February 12, 2020 Share Posted February 12, 2020 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flavio hc16 Posted February 12, 2020 Share Posted February 12, 2020 it aged like wine http:// Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RealKerbal3x Posted February 12, 2020 Share Posted February 12, 2020 1 hour ago, Flavio hc16 said: it aged like wine http:// Hey look! A stainless steel rocket! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tater Posted February 12, 2020 Share Posted February 12, 2020 3 hours ago, RealKerbal3x said: Hey look! A stainless steel rocket! 2219 Aluminum Also: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThatGuyWithALongUsername Posted February 13, 2020 Share Posted February 13, 2020 (edited) 5 hours ago, Flavio hc16 said: it aged like wine http:// Oh, that is a cool find. After some google reverse-image search, this was the March 29, 2004 issue. Years before SpaceX would even launch their first rocket. I don't have a subscription, but it should be available here: https://archive.aviationweek.com/issue/20040329 Interestingly, looking at the previews, it talks about the Falcon I being the workhorse of the fleet, while the larger Falcon 5 being used for heavier payloads and taking on Boeing. Heh. Just compare that "larger" rocket with, say, the Falcon Heavy. Edited February 13, 2020 by ThatGuyWithALongUsername Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xd the great Posted February 13, 2020 Share Posted February 13, 2020 1 hour ago, ThatGuyWithALongUsername said: Just compare that "larger" rocket with, say, the Falcon Heavy. Or the Starship. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cubinator Posted February 13, 2020 Share Posted February 13, 2020 2 hours ago, ThatGuyWithALongUsername said: Just compare that "larger" rocket with, say, the Falcon Heavy. They don't put that picture of a green Mars on their webcast for nothing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flavio hc16 Posted February 13, 2020 Share Posted February 13, 2020 from the last "the space show" https://www.thespaceshow.com/show/11-feb-2020/broadcast-3459-dr.-robert-zubrin He talked to Elon in Boca: - employees: 300 now, probably 3000 in a year - production target: 2 starships per week - Starship cost target: $5M - first 5 Starships will probably stay on Mars forever - When Zubrin pointed out that it would require 6-10 football fields of solar panels to refuel a single Starship Elon said "Fine, that's what we will do". - Elon wants to use solar energy, not nuclear. - It's not Apollo. It's D-Day. - The first crew might be 20-50 people - Zubrin thinks Starship is optimized for colonization, but not exploration - Musk about mini-starship: don't want to make 2 different vehicles (Zubrin later admits "show me why I need it" is a good attitude) - Zubrin thinks landing Starship on the moon probably infeasible due to the plume creating a big crater (so you need a landing pad first...). It's also an issue on Mars (but not as significant). Spacex will adapt (Zubrin implies consideration for classic landers for Moon or mini starship). - no heatshield tiles needed for LEO reentry thanks to stainless steel (?!), but needed for reentry from Mars - they may do 100km hop after 20km - currently no evidence of super heavy production - Elon is concerned about planetary protection roadblocks - Zubrin thinks it's possible that first uncrewed Starship will land on Mars before Artemis lands on the moon Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wjolcz Posted February 13, 2020 Share Posted February 13, 2020 This doesn't look like RCS. Some sort of valve hub for pneumatic actuators? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
magnemoe Posted February 13, 2020 Share Posted February 13, 2020 23 minutes ago, Wjolcz said: This doesn't look like RCS. Some sort of valve hub for pneumatic actuators? As its on the outside this is another test article. Good chance this is to test re-pressurization system? Also its a lots of welding sports on that part I assume this is the top of the skirt and this part is upside down as the skirt is reinforced with lots of U steel on the inside. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
magnemoe Posted February 13, 2020 Share Posted February 13, 2020 2 hours ago, Flavio hc16 said: from the last "the space show" https://www.thespaceshow.com/show/11-feb-2020/broadcast-3459-dr.-robert-zubrin He talked to Elon in Boca: - employees: 300 now, probably 3000 in a year - production target: 2 starships per week - Starship cost target: $5M - first 5 Starships will probably stay on Mars forever - When Zubrin pointed out that it would require 6-10 football fields of solar panels to refuel a single Starship Elon said "Fine, that's what we will do". - Elon wants to use solar energy, not nuclear. - It's not Apollo. It's D-Day. - The first crew might be 20-50 people - Zubrin thinks Starship is optimized for colonization, but not exploration - Musk about mini-starship: don't want to make 2 different vehicles (Zubrin later admits "show me why I need it" is a good attitude) - Zubrin thinks landing Starship on the moon probably infeasible due to the plume creating a big crater (so you need a landing pad first...). It's also an issue on Mars (but not as significant). Spacex will adapt (Zubrin implies consideration for classic landers for Moon or mini starship). - no heatshield tiles needed for LEO reentry thanks to stainless steel (?!), but needed for reentry from Mars - they may do 100km hop after 20km - currently no evidence of super heavy production - Elon is concerned about planetary protection roadblocks - Zubrin thinks it's possible that first uncrewed Starship will land on Mars before Artemis lands on the moon 2 starship week is an insane production scale. 5 million, is this for launch or for the starship, later does not compute then you think of the avionic and engines. Downside of solar only is dust storms, it getting dark and I'm out of power is an famous last word. Granted if you have an methane and oxygen reserve you can burn this for power. One major issue with using starship on moon is that its heavy so you need lots of refueling anyway. Using an dedicated lunar lander will be much more efficient Starship will have heat shield, original idea was to sweat methane. Assume the orbital version has an lighter heatshield. Doing suborbital jumps after the initial 20 km one makes sense. This can be done without heatshield. Just as well to get starship hopping before you start with superheavy. it simple compared with starship but shares many systems. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tater Posted February 13, 2020 Share Posted February 13, 2020 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted February 13, 2020 Share Posted February 13, 2020 (edited) 5 hours ago, Flavio hc16 said: - When Zubrin pointed out that it would require 6-10 football fields of solar panels to refuel a single Starship Elon said "Fine, that's what we will do". - Elon wants to use solar energy, not nuclear. A lot of pros and cons to weigh up with that. The first that comes to mind is what happens when you get a multi-month dust storm? I’m sure solar will be a big piece of a Mars power solution but I don’t think it will be the whole picture. Nuclear would be nice but probably impractical to think every outpost will be able to have nuclear reactors. I haven’t looked into the cost but I’m sure they’re not cheap or easy to make, in contrast to solar panels which are both. Maybe a combination of solar and methane/oxygen powered generators for back up since they will have tons of fuel sitting around anyway. Edited February 13, 2020 by Guest Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tater Posted February 13, 2020 Share Posted February 13, 2020 1 hour ago, magnemoe said: 5 million, is this for launch or for the starship, later does not compute then you think of the avionic and engines. He made it clear (beginning of podcast) that it's to produce them for 5M each. He has said before that Raptors would head down towards $200,000 - $250,000 each. The statement was in the context of Starship, not SS/SH. So we're talking 6 Raptors (3 of which are simpler vac raptors, no gimbal). So that's 1.5M$ in engines. Not impossible, I suppose (still insane that he's not joking). Even at double or triple that, this is amazingly cheap. SH obviously costs more, but that gets reused faster. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sh1pman Posted February 13, 2020 Share Posted February 13, 2020 23 minutes ago, tater said: Even at double or triple that, this is amazingly cheap. SH obviously costs more, but that gets reused faster. Yea, they probably don't need more than 5-10 SH total. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tater Posted February 13, 2020 Share Posted February 13, 2020 Zubrin gets into the weeds on plume-regolith interactions, and he love his "mini-starship idea (which is garbage, IMO). The only benefit of "mini Starship" for lunar (or small Mars) interactions is... 1 engine landing vs 3, maybe? They could just as well make a lunar SS with a single vacuum Raptor in the middle as a bespoke lunar vehicle (now it has exactly the same plume interaction as any SpaceX lunar vehicle would ever have, since they won't be using Merlin for this, ever). The landing legs? Yeah, I agree, a problem. Simple enough to make the lunar version have F9 legs writ large on the sides for a wide, wide stance. The first few vehicles are not meant to come back, they deliver cargo and are expended (or used as a hab). The cargo includes equipment for making a proper landing pad. Same could be true for Mars. A series of cargo vehicles (note that I am note a Mars colonization person, I think it's kooky, but I'll play along) has very wide stance F9 booster legs for "rough field" conditions. Initial cargo includes robots to lay out solar farm (required anyway), and for the creation of a landing pad. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rakaydos Posted February 13, 2020 Share Posted February 13, 2020 Just now, tater said: Zubrin gets into the weeds on plume-regolith interactions, and he love his "mini-starship idea (which is garbage, IMO). The only benefit of "mini Starship" for lunar (or small Mars) interactions is... 1 engine landing vs 3, maybe? They could just as well make a lunar SS with a single vacuum Raptor in the middle as a bespoke lunar vehicle (now it has exactly the same plume interaction as any SpaceX lunar vehicle would ever have, since they won't be using Merlin for this, ever). The landing legs? Yeah, I agree, a problem. Simple enough to make the lunar version have F9 legs writ large on the sides for a wide, wide stance. The first few vehicles are not meant to come back, they deliver cargo and are expended (or used as a hab). The cargo includes equipment for making a proper landing pad. Same could be true for Mars. A series of cargo vehicles (note that I am note a Mars colonization person, I think it's kooky, but I'll play along) has very wide stance F9 booster legs for "rough field" conditions. Initial cargo includes robots to lay out solar farm (required anyway), and for the creation of a landing pad. My preferred "first survey/site prep" mission is a Starship with an Apollo 10 type profile (getting within a few hundred meters of the surface on a landing profile, than abort to orbit before plume interactions become a concern) but deploying a few dozen Cybertrucks with Superdraco Skycranes for "last mile" landing. The trucks would then do site survey and build a pad capable of a Starship landing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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