StrandedonEarth Posted September 9, 2022 Share Posted September 9, 2022 16 minutes ago, Pthigrivi said: Am I missing something? Shouldn't they have like 3-5 firetrucks for this kind of thing? Mount a fire extinguisher on Zeus… Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pthigrivi Posted September 9, 2022 Share Posted September 9, 2022 7 minutes ago, tater said: Brush fires are not usually fought with trucks here in NM. It's guys with shovels. Im just a naive NE'lander. Somehow water is always there and we never worry about it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tater Posted September 9, 2022 Share Posted September 9, 2022 1 hour ago, Pthigrivi said: Im just a naive NE'lander. Somehow water is always there and we never worry about it. I mean right by the road on the coats there they likely drop a hose into the (salt)water unless that is not something pumpers are rated for, and they can use water. Typically a brush fire containment would be scraping off the bits that burn in a swath, and the fire hits that and has no fuel. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pthigrivi Posted September 9, 2022 Share Posted September 9, 2022 18 minutes ago, tater said: I mean right by the road on the coats there they likely drop a hose into the (salt)water unless that is not something pumpers are rated for, and they can use water. Typically a brush fire containment would be scraping off the bits that burn in a swath, and the fire hits that and has no fuel. Yeah this is me from a wet temperate environment where we just don’t have fires. Like we put them out when they’re less than an acre smoldering on wet wood. I have no real concept of this problem in the arid world. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tater Posted September 9, 2022 Share Posted September 9, 2022 36 minutes ago, Pthigrivi said: Yeah this is me from a wet temperate environment where we just don’t have fires. Like we put them out when they’re less than an acre smoldering on wet wood. I have no real concept of this problem in the arid world. To be fair, near roads—or sources of water—they probably use water if there is a risk of spread. And they seem to be fighting fire with fire now—burning areas ahead of the fire to make a firebreak. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CatastrophicFailure Posted September 9, 2022 Share Posted September 9, 2022 1 hour ago, tater said: To be fair, near roads—or sources of water—they probably use water if there is a risk of spread. And they seem to be fighting fire with fire now—burning areas ahead of the fire to make a firebreak. Literally fighting fire with fire. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tater Posted September 9, 2022 Share Posted September 9, 2022 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
magnemoe Posted September 9, 2022 Share Posted September 9, 2022 On 9/5/2022 at 11:43 AM, Flying dutchman said: Where did you read that they are removing the tiles? I certainly can't find it.. This is an new video, think I got the previous information from YouTube to. As said an disposable starship makes sense for launching starlink 2 early as I see it they have no way of reusing them at this stage. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tater Posted September 9, 2022 Share Posted September 9, 2022 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Codraroll Posted September 9, 2022 Share Posted September 9, 2022 15 hours ago, StrandedonEarth said: Mount a fire extinguisher on Zeus… Why do that when you can build one of those? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tater Posted September 9, 2022 Share Posted September 9, 2022 Not too bad in terms of TPS loss. Losses for static fires don't really map to how it will behave in flight. On launch the ship will be well above the SH engines (and acoustic effects), course it then has to beal with aero effects. SES-1 upon staging will occur in near vacuum, so it will be only vibrational. A lot won't be known until flight. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RCgothic Posted September 9, 2022 Share Posted September 9, 2022 Reflected energy goes with the 4th power of distance to the reflector. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tater Posted September 9, 2022 Share Posted September 9, 2022 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beccab Posted September 9, 2022 Share Posted September 9, 2022 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tater Posted September 9, 2022 Share Posted September 9, 2022 (edited) The prop depot illustrated has at least 2X the propellant volume of Starship assuming they don't use the tapered part of the nose past having a tank dome intruding into it. So 2400-2500t of propellants. That would get to LEO with >200t of props aboard, possibly closer to 300t. I am considering it to be 100t. Once filled 100%, it can fill LSS 100%, and it is still there in LEO with 9.7 km/s of dv. If it flew to LLO, it would arrive with 350t of propellants. It would have enough propellant left to propulsively return to LEO after giving 150t to LSS. A LLO—>lunar surface —>LLO round trip for LSS costs ~200t of propellants. So the Depot can fill LSS, have 1 extra tank of props delivered—or the tanks could be allowed to move into the nose taper very slightly to increase tanks by 50-100t—and it can follow LSS to LLO, and refill it for another lunar sortie, then return to LEO. Edited September 9, 2022 by tater Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tater Posted September 9, 2022 Share Posted September 9, 2022 PS—the Depot SS only needs to deliver 175t to LSS in LLO for LSS to propulsively return to LEO which might be preferable. The LSS can be loaded with cargo—or crew— and return to the Moon. This is fact makes a ton of sense. Crew to LSS via Dragon. Fill LSS. Go to Moon with DSS following behind. Do lunar surface mission. Return to LLO, tank up from DSS, and both vessels return to LEO. LSS transfers crew to Dragon for return to Earth. Cadence to the Moon is now up to SS flight rates. Circular LEOs, no highly elliptical phasing, etc. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tater Posted September 9, 2022 Share Posted September 9, 2022 PPS—If the Depot stages the nose off to leave a flat top that exactly matches the SH interstage, they could tank the LSS. Stack to the bottom of LSS, as it does with SH, then do the bulk of TLI withthe now tug Depot, depot returns to circular LEO. LSS can fly round trip to LEO. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoeSchmuckatelli Posted September 9, 2022 Share Posted September 9, 2022 6 minutes ago, tater said: PPS—If the Depot stages the nose off to leave a flat top that exactly matches the SH interstage, they could tank the LSS. Stack to the bottom of LSS, as it does with SH, then do the bulk of TLI withthe now tug Depot, depot returns to circular LEO. LSS can fly round trip to LEO. Can you stage the nose off and have it do a reentry +parachute landing and reuse it... Or is that something cheap enough to just 'reef' it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beccab Posted September 9, 2022 Share Posted September 9, 2022 2 minutes ago, tater said: PPS—If the Depot stages the nose off to leave a flat top that exactly matches the SH interstage, they could tank the LSS. Stack to the bottom of LSS, as it does with SH, then do the bulk of TLI withthe now tug Depot, depot returns to circular LEO. LSS can fly round trip to LEO. That's actually a great idea - it's the way most chemical space tugs were intended to operate in the past, ranging from the Apollo derived IPP NASA space tug to the Boeing and JSC space tug of the later GEO power satellite designs 6 minutes ago, JoeSchmuckatelli said: Can you stage the nose off and have it do a reentry +parachute landing and reuse it... Or is that something cheap enough to just 'reef' it? The depot would normally return to LEO after TLI, perhaps following an Apollo 13-like free return trajectory before doing a final burn and inserting back into orbit instead of reentering Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tater Posted September 9, 2022 Share Posted September 9, 2022 41 minutes ago, Beccab said: That's actually a great idea - it's the way most chemical space tugs were intended to operate in the past, ranging from the Apollo derived IPP NASA space tug to the Boeing and JSC space tug of the later GEO power satellite designs That's what I was thinking of. A plus being that the entire cislunar architecture can be done with all rendezvous and docking operations taking place in LEO. The "interstage" of the Depot could also have a crew compartment, even just as a contingency. LSS finds itself in lunar orbit with some sort of failure (tank punctured by a rock zinging past or something). Depot can meet it and collect crew. 50 minutes ago, JoeSchmuckatelli said: Can you stage the nose off and have it do a reentry +parachute landing and reuse it... Or is that something cheap enough to just 'reef' it? It's just some steel. Alternately it could clamshell all the way back against the tanks, and the inside is solar arrays or something. Tomorrow 9pm Eastern. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beccab Posted September 10, 2022 Share Posted September 10, 2022 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kerbiloid Posted September 10, 2022 Share Posted September 10, 2022 14 hours ago, Codraroll said: Why do that when you can build one of those? A water pistol. THIS is a fire extinguisher. Spoiler On 9/9/2022 at 7:54 AM, magnemoe said: As said an disposable starship makes sense for launching starlink 2 early as I see it they have no way of reusing them at this stage. No need in winglets, no need in heatshield. Pure profit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tater Posted September 10, 2022 Share Posted September 10, 2022 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beccab Posted September 10, 2022 Share Posted September 10, 2022 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tater Posted September 10, 2022 Share Posted September 10, 2022 About 1 hour 15 minutes: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.