PakledHostage Posted April 13 Share Posted April 13 (edited) 4 hours ago, magnemoe said: Planes crossing the Atlantic has so much fuel the can not land without dumping or burning some of it, Same plane model do 2-3 hour flights and can just turn around and land. Off topic, but an aircraft that's over its maximum landing weight can still land. It just needs an overweight landing structural inspection done before it can fly again. (A long runway and careful touchdown helps in the event, too.) We had a few older 767s that didn't even have a fuel jettison system installed. I remember one of them needing to make an air turnback and the flight crew being seriously irritated to find out that they couldn't jettison fuel before landing, but that was on them. They should probably have familiarized themselves with what they were flying before they took off. After that, we were asked by flight ops to look at modding those aircraft to add a fuel jettison system, but the cost of the mod was deemed too high so they continued to fly without. Edited April 13 by PakledHostage Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CatastrophicFailure Posted April 13 Share Posted April 13 Finders keepers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nuke Posted April 14 Share Posted April 14 (edited) 32 minutes ago, CatastrophicFailure said: Finders keepers. your expensive space hardware has just become my new sail boat. Edited April 14 by Nuke Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
darthgently Posted April 14 Share Posted April 14 26 minutes ago, Nuke said: your expensive space hardware has just become my new sail boat. Wouldn't the fairing have come down in an exclusion zone? Hope the guy didn't get in trouble as he didn't cause any and probably wasn't trying to steal the fairing or pull an injury claim by trying to get it to land on his head or something Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nuke Posted April 14 Share Posted April 14 wouldn't be surprised if space-x had bounties for 3rd party hardware recovery. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
darthgently Posted April 14 Share Posted April 14 6 hours ago, Nuke said: wouldn't be surprised if space-x had bounties for 3rd party hardware recovery. This rings a bell. I can't remember whether I read it as an idea or as a fact though. As has been noted, if a pallet with $60M cash were parachuting down into the ocean, shouldn't one try to retrieve it? So yeah, SpaceX would be motivated to offer a bounty Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PakledHostage Posted April 14 Share Posted April 14 There is maritime law with respect to salvage. I don’t know the details, but maybe someone here knows a bit more? Regardless, I don't think anyone would be able to claim salvage on a fairing half when SpaceX's recovery vessel is on the horizon from where the part came down. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tater Posted April 14 Share Posted April 14 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
magnemoe Posted April 14 Share Posted April 14 8 hours ago, PakledHostage said: There is maritime law with respect to salvage. I don’t know the details, but maybe someone here knows a bit more? Regardless, I don't think anyone would be able to claim salvage on a fairing half when SpaceX's recovery vessel is on the horizon from where the part came down. Yes, I don't think you can pirate an salvage operation in progress unless it obviously failing. Friend of mine and some of his friends rescued an large sailboat at drift and took it into an harbor. They was shocked by the payout $2000 each back in the 80's who was serious money for an teen. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nuke Posted April 15 Share Posted April 15 9 hours ago, PakledHostage said: There is maritime law with respect to salvage. I don’t know the details, but maybe someone here knows a bit more? Regardless, I don't think anyone would be able to claim salvage on a fairing half when SpaceX's recovery vessel is on the horizon from where the part came down. so the bounty would need to be higher than its value as scrap. 4 hours ago, tater said: is it just me or do those tiles look shinier? looks almost like a snake skin. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikegarrison Posted April 15 Share Posted April 15 On 4/13/2024 at 2:42 PM, PakledHostage said: Off topic, but an aircraft that's over its maximum landing weight can still land. It just needs an overweight landing structural inspection done before it can fly again. Yup. Mostly operators want to avoid that, so they burn off fuel. A potentially more difficult problem is if the current fuel load is not within the cg limits for landing. Airplanes can (and do) sometimes fly in cruise with cgs that are not allowed for landing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
darthgently Posted April 15 Share Posted April 15 10 hours ago, PakledHostage said: There is maritime law with respect to salvage. I don’t know the details, but maybe someone here knows a bit more? Regardless, I don't think anyone would be able to claim salvage on a fairing half when SpaceX's recovery vessel is on the horizon from where the part came down. As I recall, the owner, in this case SpaceX, has to have given up trying to salvage, or been forced by authorities to do so because they are failing to prevent the object from becoming a hazard to navigation in a timely manner or some such language Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DAL59 Posted April 15 Share Posted April 15 With all the tile issues SpaceX has been having (and the shuttle before them), should they have stuck to the evaporation cooling idea? Or just making the entry half of the starship out of a high melting point material (though this would reduce payload capacity). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tater Posted April 15 Share Posted April 15 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Codraroll Posted April 15 Share Posted April 15 23 hours ago, darthgently said: As has been noted, if a pallet with $60M cash were parachuting down into the ocean, shouldn't one try to retrieve it? Depends on the coinage. If I were in a boat and a pallet with $60M in pennies was falling towards me, I'd try to get the heck out of there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
darthgently Posted April 15 Share Posted April 15 9 minutes ago, Codraroll said: Depends on the coinage. If I were in a boat and a pallet with $60M in pennies was falling towards me, I'd try to get the heck out of there. That would be a very large, and massive pallet. If the sun were directly overhead one could easily get a momentary nice eclipse effect with boat positioned directly underneath it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DAL59 Posted April 15 Share Posted April 15 So, SpaceX is surely going to put forward some proposal for NASA's call for new MSR plans, any speculation? Maybe Red Dragon, with the sample retrieval quadcopters and a sounding rocket? Since they want to maintain their original goal of 2030 instead of slipping to 2040, maybe even Starship could be sent to retrieve the samples. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
magnemoe Posted April 15 Share Posted April 15 On 4/13/2024 at 11:42 PM, PakledHostage said: Off topic, but an aircraft that's over its maximum landing weight can still land. It just needs an overweight landing structural inspection done before it can fly again. (A long runway and careful touchdown helps in the event, too.) We had a few older 767s that didn't even have a fuel jettison system installed. I remember one of them needing to make an air turnback and the flight crew being seriously irritated to find out that they couldn't jettison fuel before landing, but that was on them. They should probably have familiarized themselves with what they were flying before they took off. After that, we were asked by flight ops to look at modding those aircraft to add a fuel jettison system, but the cost of the mod was deemed too high so they continued to fly without. Today you don't dump fuel unless its an emergency forcing you to land like engine out, can not retract landing gear and your circle or get an fine. During an air force practice an B 52 pulled in front of line because an engine out, F 16 pilots was not impressed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shpaget Posted April 15 Share Posted April 15 52 minutes ago, magnemoe said: B 52 pulled in front of line because an engine out Ahh... the dreaded seven engine approach. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PakledHostage Posted April 15 Share Posted April 15 1 hour ago, magnemoe said: Today you don't dump fuel unless its an emergency forcing you to land like engine out, can not retract landing gear and your circle or get an fine. I've been on test flights where they dumped fuel merely to demonstrate that the jettison system was working. Nobody got fined. Just saying. 12 minutes ago, Shpaget said: Ahh... the dreaded seven engine approach. That story is apocryphal. Just the other week, CNN went for a ride along on a B-52 and the crew happened to need to shut down an engine while near Japan. They continued the mission, flying all the way from Japan back to Louisiana on 7 engines. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SunlitZelkova Posted April 15 Share Posted April 15 2 hours ago, DAL59 said: So, SpaceX is surely going to put forward some proposal for NASA's call for new MSR plans, any speculation? Maybe Red Dragon, with the sample retrieval quadcopters and a sounding rocket? Since they want to maintain their original goal of 2030 instead of slipping to 2040, maybe even Starship could be sent to retrieve the samples. The only issue I would see with Starship is the contamination issue. You can’t perform planetary protection measures on a vehicle that large. Of course, NASA could always rule that out in the interest of time. But that’s the current requirement. Red Dragon is a one way lander and thus probably can’t do it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CatastrophicFailure Posted April 15 Share Posted April 15 12 hours ago, darthgently said: That would be a very large, and massive pallet. If the sun were directly overhead one could easily get a momentary nice eclipse effect with boat positioned directly underneath it. For anyone else who’s brain absolutely will NOT let them rest until this useless knowledge is known… that wood be a pallet approximately 135x82x11ft and weighing 18,750 tons, and is either half the annual production of pennies or all the pennies in circulation as of 2012 depending on which nonsense interwebz source you trust. so yeah, splash. BIG splash. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ultimate Steve Posted April 15 Share Posted April 15 Given the MSR news... I'm not saying this is a good idea and I'm not saying it will happen, but proposing a manned Starship mission to complete Mars Sample Return is a completely on brand thing for SpaceX to do. Would be quite the plot twist but the 21st century of space exploration has been filled with so many plot twists already that I doubt anything would surprise me at this point. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
darthgently Posted April 15 Share Posted April 15 45 minutes ago, Ultimate Steve said: Given the MSR news... I'm not saying this is a good idea and I'm not saying it will happen, but proposing a manned Starship mission to complete Mars Sample Return is a completely on brand thing for SpaceX to do. Would be quite the plot twist but the 21st century of space exploration has been filled with so many plot twists already that I doubt anything would surprise me at this point. Even better, have SpaceX partner with DoorDash for the mission and require NASA to officially request the sample return via the DoorDash app. Proper channels and all Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StrandedonEarth Posted April 15 Share Posted April 15 (edited) 9 minutes ago, darthgently said: Even better, have SpaceX partner with DoorDash for the mission and require NASA to officially request the sample return via the DoorDash app. Proper channels and all You know, this is certainly a huge advertising/sponsorship opportunity for a business like that, preferably one with deeeeeep pockets Edited April 15 by StrandedonEarth Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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