totm nov 2023 SpaceX Discussion Thread

[V7 Aerospace]

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Edited February 25, 2019 by V7 Aerospace
Messed up, ignore this

[magnemoe]

1 hour ago, MinimumSky5 said:

Very likely. Scott Manley has said that they intend to detonate the entire rocket, to see if the capsule can protect the astronauts from the worst possible situation it is designed to survive. 

Ok so Musk was kind of lying then he said they would probably loose the first stage. 
If they planned to blow it up I think he would say it. 
Instead i read it more like the New Shepard abort test. 

 

[Xd the great]

5 minutes ago, magnemoe said:

Ok so Musk was kind of lying then he said they would probably loose the first stage. 
If they planned to blow it up I think he would say it. 
Instead i read it more like the New Shepard abort test. 

 

He probably forgot about it.

Maybe the C4 blocks arent powerful enough to cause an explosion in the first stage, just those in the second stage.

[magnemoe]

13 minutes ago, Xd the great said:

He probably forgot about it.

Maybe the C4 blocks arent powerful enough to cause an explosion in the first stage, just those in the second stage.

First stage is the one who is important to terminate, worst case setting is if rocket don't respond and start going westward shortly after launch. 
Simply rupturing the skin at the internal bulkhead should do the tricks. Clipping the LOX pipe inside the fuel tank for an bonus effect as this will also kill the engines at once. 

[Xd the great]

30 minutes ago, magnemoe said:

First stage is the one who is important to terminate, worst case setting is if rocket don't respond and start going westward shortly after launch. 
Simply rupturing the skin at the internal bulkhead should do the tricks. Clipping the LOX pipe inside the fuel tank for an bonus effect as this will also kill the engines at once. 

Are they hiring people for the detonation? I want a job.

[DDE]

1 hour ago, Xd the great said:

Maybe the C4 blocks arent powerful enough to cause an explosion in the first stage, just those in the second stage.

We’re probably looking at copious amounts of detcord instead.

[CatastrophicFailure]

33 minutes ago, DDE said:

We’re probably looking at copious amounts of detcord instead.

If anything, they’ll just use the already-present flight termination system. It’s there specifically if the rocket goes off course or otherwise fails, like CRS-7. Yes, it’s basically detcord that “unzips” the side of the tanks, spilling the fuel in a “controlled” but rapid manner. It’s what took out the booster on CRS-7, which was still trying to charge ahead. 

Such a system has been on every US rocket for a long time, even the space shuttle (think for a minute about what that means if the stack went off course with their limited abort options). You can also see it in action on one of the early Grashopper flights, where it lost control and they had to terminate the flight. 

It is perhaps worth noting, that at Max-Q altitude (30kft-ish?), the rocket can’t really explode, there’s not enough oxygen in the air and the propellants are unlikely to mix well enough either. There might be some fire if they do, but no explosion. What we’ll see will look almost identical to CRS-7, tho myself I’m finding conflicting sources on whether or not they’ll try to recover the booster. 

[Xd the great]

Ah, so we will see a rocket fuel curtain. Sounds nice.

[sh1pman]

8 minutes ago, Xd the great said:

Ah, so we will see a rocket fuel curtain. Sounds nice.

And people at the launch site will experience a rocket fuel rain.

[Starman4308]

55 minutes ago, sh1pman said:

And people at the launch site will experience a rocket fuel rain.

Except for the first seconds of flight, any debris should just rain down on the Atlantic Ocean, and my suspicion is that they're going to try for an abort test at Max-Q, likely far enough downrange that everything just hits the ocean.

[Racescort666]

10 minutes ago, Starman4308 said:

Except for the first seconds of flight, any debris should just rain down on the Atlantic Ocean, and my suspicion is that they're going to try for an abort test at Max-Q, likely far enough downrange that everything just hits the ocean.

When I was at the Air Force Space and Missile museum at Cape Canaveral, the guy working there was telling us stories about working on the early Atlas program and how they had one launch where the missile never initiated it's pitch maneuver. They activated the flight termination and he said it looked like sparkly confetti up there in the sky. He said, "then we realized that it was directly above us and we should probably get inside before any of those pretty pieces come down because they're basically slivers of razor sharp stainless steel."

[Xd the great]

1 hour ago, Racescort666 said:

When I was at the Air Force Space and Missile museum at Cape Canaveral, the guy working there was telling us stories about working on the early Atlas program and how they had one launch where the missile never initiated it's pitch maneuver. They activated the flight termination and he said it looked like sparkly confetti up there in the sky. He said, "then we realized that it was directly above us and we should probably get inside before any of those pretty pieces come down because they're basically slivers of razor sharp stainless steel."

That guy should talk to the starship hopper team.

[Nightside]

4 hours ago, Xd the great said:

That guy should talk to the starship hopper team.

Don’t worry, they have a tent to get under now.

[tater]

 

Nose is coming along (again).

 

[Reactordrone]

14 hours ago, MinimumSky5 said:

Very likely. Scott Manley has said that they intend to detonate the entire rocket, to see if the capsule can protect the astronauts from the worst possible situation it is designed to survive. 

I'd have thought they'd want the booster intact and firing its engines normally to ensure the abort motors can pull the capsule away. A blowing up booster just makes it easier for the capsule to escape. The question then becomes whether the booster will destroy itself by suddenly having a blunt second stage exposed to maximum aerodynamic pressure.

[sevenperforce]

27 minutes ago, Reactordrone said:

I'd have thought they'd want the booster intact and firing its engines normally to ensure the abort motors can pull the capsule away. A blowing up booster just makes it easier for the capsule to escape. The question then becomes whether the booster will destroy itself by suddenly having a blunt second stage exposed to maximum aerodynamic pressure.

They will trigger the abort by shutting down the first-stage engines. If these were SRBs then that would be one thing, but they are not, and they will shut down very obediently when commanded. Shutting off engine thrust on the first stage is part of the abort sequence. 

[Mad Rocket Scientist]

It looks like the nose is smoother this time, and possibly has a longer straight section.

[Xd the great]

3 hours ago, Mad Rocket Scientist said:

It looks like the nose is smoother this time, and possibly has a longer straight section.

well, crew dragon has to stuff in people, not just cargo...

[Piscator]

I think he's referring to the hopper. I noticed the same thing. The metal seems to be smoother and less crinkled this time.

[Scotius]

Better craftmanship on contractor's side, perhaps? Hopefully they will leash the construction more firmly this time.

[Xd the great]

10 hours ago, sevenperforce said:

They will trigger the abort by shutting down the first-stage engines. If these were SRBs then that would be one thing, but they are not, and they will shut down very obediently when commanded. Shutting off engine thrust on the first stage is part of the abort sequence. 

Shutting down a rocket engine without it blowing up is hard. Shutting down a rocket engine during explosions is harder.

[Jacke]

2 minutes ago, Xd the great said:

Shutting down a rocket engine without it blowing up is hard. Shutting down a rocket engine during explosions is harder.

Liquid fuel engines are designed to shut down in flight as they normally never are run to propellant exhaustion.  Flight computers often are programmed with several failure conditions where shutting down an engine is the immediate response.  Solid fuel motors can't really be stopped from burning, but the next best thing can be done, especially with strapon SRBs: install blowout panels on the top end to mostly kill their effective thrust.

[kerbiloid]

Spoiler

14 hours ago, Reactordrone said:

they intend to detonate the entire rocket, to see if the capsule can protect the astronauts from the worst possible situation it is designed to survive. 

The best crash test evah!

 

[tater]

10 hours ago, Mad Rocket Scientist said:

It looks like the nose is smoother this time, and possibly has a longer straight section.

Very much smoother. Thicker?

[Xd the great]

33 minutes ago, tater said:

Very much smoother. Thicker?

Probably, another blow over would be embarrassing.