totm dec 2023 [WIP] [1.12.x] MOARdV's Avionics Systems - MAS Interactive IVA! (v1.3.7, 7 April 2023)

[linuxgurugamer]

A question was posed to me:  Has anyone made a standalone mod which displays a MAS screen in a window rather than inside the IVA?  Same thing for RPM

 

[MOARdV]

55 minutes ago, linuxgurugamer said:

A question was posed to me:  Has anyone made a standalone mod which displays a MAS screen in a window rather than inside the IVA?  Same thing for RPM

 

It's been asked a couple of times over the years.  I am unaware of such a mod.  I think it's technically feasible in the abstract.  Practically speaking, however ... it is probably not viable.  There are several issues:

First, most IVAs have multiple MFDs.  There would have to be a way for the plugin to select an MFD.  I suppose it could always grab the first MFD it encounters when it scans the IVA's InternalModule list.

Second, many IVAs have multiple types of MFD (different screen sizes, different configurations, different pages).  In those cases, there'd need to be a way to decide which MFD to show (for instance, the Kerbal Flying Saucer Flapjack IVA has 3 distinct styles of MFD, and more than one instance of two of those types).

Third, an ideal implementation would be able to pipe keypresses back to the MFD.  Otherwise, the player has to switch to IVA, click a button on the right MFD, and switch back to external view.  The way I've plumbed MAS, I don't think it can really be done.

Realistically, I think what would need to happen is a PartModule that is attached to the same part as the MASFlightComputer module.  The PartModule would more-or-less implement the same functionality as the MASMonitor InternalModule, but it would also manage a UI (both displaying the RenderTexture and detecting / routing button presses).  (I'm not proposing you should write it - I'm just kind-of mentally walking through how it could be implemented when I run out of things to do  Although, if you're done updating all of the mods you're maintaining, and you're looking for something else to do, let me know  ).  I can add it to my MAS Issues list as a feature post MAS 1.0.

[fredbreakfast]

4 hours ago, MOARdV said:

It's been asked a couple of times over the years.  I am unaware of such a mod.  I think it's technically feasible in the abstract.  Practically speaking, however ... it is probably not viable.  There are several issues:

First, most IVAs have multiple MFDs.  There would have to be a way for the plugin to select an MFD.  I suppose it could always grab the first MFD it encounters when it scans the IVA's InternalModule list.

Second, many IVAs have multiple types of MFD (different screen sizes, different configurations, different pages).  In those cases, there'd need to be a way to decide which MFD to show (for instance, the Kerbal Flying Saucer Flapjack IVA has 3 distinct styles of MFD, and more than one instance of two of those types).

Third, an ideal implementation would be able to pipe keypresses back to the MFD.  Otherwise, the player has to switch to IVA, click a button on the right MFD, and switch back to external view.  The way I've plumbed MAS, I don't think it can really be done.

Realistically, I think what would need to happen is a PartModule that is attached to the same part as the MASFlightComputer module.  The PartModule would more-or-less implement the same functionality as the MASMonitor InternalModule, but it would also manage a UI (both displaying the RenderTexture and detecting / routing button presses).  (I'm not proposing you should write it - I'm just kind-of mentally walking through how it could be implemented when I run out of things to do  Although, if you're done updating all of the mods you're maintaining, and you're looking for something else to do, let me know  ).  I can add it to my MAS Issues list as a feature post MAS 1.0.

I think the only way to really get away with anything involving MAS is to have an iOS/Android-based app with just the navball/data etc. That would be more than enough for me.

[Bombaatu]

Silly question. I know that RPM doesn't see the Hullcam VDS cameras as external cameras. Will MAS be able to do so?

[MOARdV]

7 hours ago, Bombaatu said:

Silly question. I know that RPM doesn't see the Hullcam VDS cameras as external cameras. Will MAS be able to do so?

Not silly at all.

First, RPM *should* see Hullcam VDS cameras.  Once upon a time, RPM included patches, but a while back I thought those had moved over to the Hullcam VDS mod.  So, provided my memory isn't playing tricks on me, there should be a patch in Hullcam to add RPM cameras to the parts.

That said ... yeah, I can add a MM patch that will add MASCamera to the Hullcam VDS parts.  I'll go add a reminder issue on GitHub now before I forget.

Edited August 9, 2018 by MOARdV
Typo:

[MOARdV]

So, I'm working on something...

Still work in progress, but it will show what MAS can do, as long as you also use the Bluedog Design Bureau's Kane/Sarnus launch stack.

Once I've got a few more features nailed down for MAS 1.0.0, I should be able to get this uploaded, too.

[Skullcrash]

Do you plan to replace RPM's screen ? Because, MAS does not allow real travel for now. In my memories, MAS is even useless now but I saw some BYOUTIFOOL stuff on alexustas channel (I don't know if it's you)

[Matrix Aran]

So just to be clear, if I were to build an IVA with MAS and ASET props, I would not need to have RPM as a dependancy?

The original post isn't quite clear on how MAS departs from RPM and I'm curious what improvements you've made over RPM.

[MOARdV]

2 hours ago, Skullcrash said:

Do you plan to replace RPM's screen ? Because, MAS does not allow real travel for now. In my memories, MAS is even useless now but I saw some BYOUTIFOOL stuff on alexustas channel (I don't know if it's you)

alexustas is the creator of the ASET props packs.  There are many features in MAS that came from his requests, though.  The MAS flight management system that he's been working on looks like it will be amazing.  So will the Curiosity-style camera mast.

MAS currently has functional MFDs that are much fancier and show more information than RPM screens:

The Apollo IVA will not have an MFD.  Neither does the Mk1 Pod or Mk1-3 Pod.  Those IVAs represent early technology, not modern glass cockpits.  The Flapjack cockpit IVA from Kerbal Flying Saucers (the bottom picture) has two types of MAS MFD.  The MRK IVA (included in MAS, the pod is available in the Commonwealth Rocketry mod) uses MFDs.

16 minutes ago, Matrix Aran said:

So just to be clear, if I were to build an IVA with MAS and ASET props, I would not need to have RPM as a dependancy?

Correct - as long as you use the MAS version of the ASET props (they are all prefixed "MAS_" in the props list), you do not need RPM at all.

18 minutes ago, Matrix Aran said:

The original post isn't quite clear on how MAS departs from RPM and I'm curious what improvements you've made over RPM.

It is a complete rewrite of the concept, using callback mechanisms to update props (as opposed to almost every prop polling the core module to ask 'did anything change?' several times a second).  It uses fewer modules to create functionality, which reduces game engine overhead.  It uses Unity game engine primitives for rendering, instead of occasionally using lower-level Unity GL and Graphics primitives.  It supports numeric expressions in its variable definitions, instead of having to use the kludgy MATH and CUSTOM features of RPM.  There's much more control of user-defined numeric values and many prop configs - for instance, in RPM, the instrument panel lights could be on or off.  In the MAS IVAs I've developed, there is a dimmer switch.  Same thing with the interior area lights and spot lights - they can be dimmed (they can also have their color changed, so you could design an IVA with a 'night mode' that makes the interior lighting red).  Performance in general should be better than RPM.  MAS also supports Lua scripting, so if you know how to write Lua script, you can write some very complex functionality.

Overall, MAS is much more powerful and much more flexible for the IVA/prop maker, and it is better performing for the player.

[Matrix Aran]

32 minutes ago, MOARdV said:

It is a complete rewrite of the concept, using callback mechanisms to update props (as opposed to almost every prop polling the core module to ask 'did anything change?' several times a second).  It uses fewer modules to create functionality, which reduces game engine overhead.  It uses Unity game engine primitives for rendering, instead of occasionally using lower-level Unity GL and Graphics primitives.  It supports numeric expressions in its variable definitions, instead of having to use the kludgy MATH and CUSTOM features of RPM.  There's much more control of user-defined numeric values and many prop configs - for instance, in RPM, the instrument panel lights could be on or off.  In the MAS IVAs I've developed, there is a dimmer switch.  Same thing with the interior area lights and spot lights - they can be dimmed (they can also have their color changed, so you could design an IVA with a 'night mode' that makes the interior lighting red).  Performance in general should be better than RPM.  MAS also supports Lua scripting, so if you know how to write Lua script, you can write some very complex functionality.

Overall, MAS is much more powerful and much more flexible for the IVA/prop maker, and it is better performing for the player.

Very awesome and good to hear. This is exactly what I was looking for in the original post but couldn't find, and it makes me very excited to get home and start to work with it.

[Skullcrash]

Ok, so it's earlier technology. At what point do we begin to have modern cockpits ? Do ALCOR pod will have a MAS modern IVA (I am confused about if you're working together or if you support each mods etc.) ?  

[MOARdV]

3 hours ago, Skullcrash said:

Ok, so it's earlier technology. At what point do we begin to have modern cockpits ? Do ALCOR pod will have a MAS modern IVA (I am confused about if you're working together or if you support each mods etc.) ?  

The stock IVA is earlier technology.  The IVA I made for the MRK pod is current technology with glass cockpit.  But you have to install the MRK pod to use it.  Same thing with the IVA from Kerbal Flying Saucers - that is a glass cockpit.  Those are both available right now.

alexustas and I work together in that alexustas makes props and IVAs, and I make the mod that allows those props to do something.  Sometimes I ask him to make a prop, and sometimes he asks me to add things to MAS so he can add new abilities to his props.

I do not know what alexustas has planned for new IVAs.  I expect the ALCOR lander pod will be updated, but I do not know when - I understand that alexustas has been very busy this year with real life.

I might update the Mk1-3 cockpit as a modern cockpit later, but I have another project to finish before I do that.

[Micro753]

Not sure if this is possible, but i'll suggest it anyways. Would you be able to make two versions of the iva, one early one modern, and enable the modern one with an upgrade in the tech tree? Would it be possible to make the iva switchable, like I've seen done with textures?

[Bombaatu]

I'm wondering if it would be possible to swap out an IVA as a part upgrade when a given science node is unlocked...

 

EDIT: Ninja'd ^^

Edited August 20, 2018 by Bombaatu

[Micro753]

Beat ya to it. 

[MOARdV]

5 hours ago, Micro753 said:

Not sure if this is possible, but i'll suggest it anyways. Would you be able to make two versions of the iva, one early one modern, and enable the modern one with an upgrade in the tech tree? Would it be possible to make the iva switchable, like I've seen done with textures?

It would be possible to make two IVAs (1960s and modern).  However, to my knowledge there isn't a way to make the IVA unlock in the tech tree or switchable (without a plugin, at least).

What I know is possible is to use Module Manager to create a 2nd entire command pod, like "Mk1-3 Modern" or something like that, that could be unlocked.  You'd end up with the "old" version still available, plus the modernized version.

One problem that I have (that I forgot earlier) is that the Mk1-3 is not very well designed for IVA.  The two outer seats are pushed farther back from the panel.  That's the main reason I didn't finish the Mk1-3 IVA - the results didn't look very good in IVA when I added props to the sides, and they were too small to read from the 2nd and 3rd seat.  If I made them larger, then they would look huge from the center seat.  The model used for the Mk1-3 IVA would require some rework before I could make an IVA that I'd be happy with (and I am not a modeler, so I wouldn't be able to do that myself).

[Catatau_27]

Is there an important navigational instrument that should appear on the HUD and has not been made or is being worked on? I really like this mod because of the incredible feeling of flying through EVA, I need help because I can not find any mod or plugin that Help me find the nearby lanes from inside the cabin. =)

Edited August 21, 2018 by Catatau_27

[MOARdV]

23 hours ago, Catatau_27 said:

Is there an important navigational instrument that should appear on the HUD and has not been made or is being worked on? I really like this mod because of the incredible feeling of flying through EVA, I need help because I can not find any mod or plugin that Help me find the nearby lanes from inside the cabin. =)

The HUD does not have additional components.  The MFD display does not have aircraft navigation components at this time, but it is capable of tracking waypoints (the NAV button on the MFD).  MAS has two types of default waypoints that it can provide: Kerbal ground stations (the Deep Space Network sites) and radio navigation beacons (many, many VOR, NDB, and ILS waypoints).  You can activate those from the MAS config menu in the Space Center view.

[Stone Blue]

@MOARdV Do you have any idea if MAS supports the NavUtilities mod, as RPM used to?
 

(tagging @Catatau_27 incase this is relevant to their question... its what made me think of NavUtilities)

[MOARdV]

7 minutes ago, Stone Blue said:

Do you have any idea if MAS supports the NavUtilities mod, as RPM used to?

Yeah, I have an idea.

...

Skimming through the NavUtilities mod, it looks like the RPM support is entirely part of NavUtilities (there's a NavUtilitiesRPM dll), which means that MAS can link with it and it'll work.  The downside is that the MFDs I've made for MAS so far are mostly rocket-oriented, and adding a page to show NavUtilities might be a bit tricky since I've used up most of the softkeys on the home page of the MFD.  What MAS needs is an aviation / spaceplane focused MFD or FMS to go with the orbital MFD (even if they're the same prop).

[Catatau_27]

17 hours ago, MOARdV said:

Yeah, I have an idea.

...

Skimming through the NavUtilities mod, it looks like the RPM support is entirely part of NavUtilities (there's a NavUtilitiesRPM dll), which means that MAS can link with it and it'll work.  The downside is that the MFDs I've made for MAS so far are mostly rocket-oriented, and adding a page to show NavUtilities might be a bit tricky since I've used up most of the softkeys on the home page of the MFD.  What MAS needs is an aviation / spaceplane focused MFD or FMS to go with the orbital MFD (even if they're the same prop).

Any chance of getting some aviation-focused MFD or FMS to come up in the future? Or the biggest problem would be that it would not be possible to split your work for spacecraft and military / civil aircraft into the game? For in that case each style would have to have the navigation system itself and etc ... I understand that it would give a lot of work to make it work, the question is: Would it be feasible?

18 hours ago, Stone Blue said:

@MOARdV Do you have any idea if MAS supports the NavUtilities mod, as RPM used to?
 

(tagging @Catatau_27 incase this is relevant to their question... its what made me think of NavUtilities)

Thanks for the help, i will check this sir =D Thank you sir =D

[Catatau_27]

18 hours ago, MOARdV said:

Yeah, I have an idea.

... 

Skimming through the NavUtilities mod, it looks like the RPM support is entirely part of NavUtilities (there's a NavUtilitiesRPM dll), which means that MAS can link with it and it'll work.  The downside is that the MFDs I've made for MAS so far are mostly rocket-oriented, and adding a page to show NavUtilities might be a bit tricky since I've used up most of the softkeys on the home page of the MFD.  What MAS needs is an aviation / spaceplane focused MFD or FMS to go with the orbital MFD (even if they're the same prop).

Apparently you can add the NavUtilities function within the ASET to be read and accessed via the menu, if this is possible, I would like to add this extension to their work, after all if it works in ASET imagine your standard navigation is not as different. And it would be a hand in the wheel too. 

@PROP[ALCORMFD40x20]:NEEDS[ASETPropsIdentifier&RasterPropMonitor]:AFTER[RasterPropMonitor]
{
	  @MODULE[RasterPropMonitor]
	  {
		PAGE
		{
			button = button_A
			name = KSF_NAV_HSI
			disableSwitchingTo = btn1, btn2, btn3, btn4, btn5, btn6, btn7, btn8, btn9, btn10, up, down, enter, escape, home

			BACKGROUNDHANDLER
            {
                name = KSF_MLS
                method = DrawMLS
				buttonClickMethod = ButtonProcessor

				btnPrevRwy = 6
				btnNextRwy = 5
				btnDefaultRwyGS = 3
            }
			
			CONTEXTREDIRECT
			{
				redirect = home,   menuDefault
			}
		}
		
		PAGE
		{
			button = button_A
			name = KSF_NAV_AI
			disableSwitchingTo = btn1, btn2, btn3, btn4, btn5, btn6, btn7, btn8, btn9, btn10, up, down, enter, escape, home

			BACKGROUNDHANDLER
            {
                name = KSF_AI
                method = DrawAI
				//buttonClickMethod = ButtonProcessor

				//btnPrevRwy = 6
				//btnNextRwy = 5
				///btnDefaultRwyGS = 3
            }
			
			CONTEXTREDIRECT
			{
				redirect = home,   menuDefault
			}
		}
	  }
}

Edited August 23, 2018 by Catatau_27

[DeckerExpert]

Yeah...

I have a Problem with this mod

Whenever i go IVA, the dash bored is empty! there is nothing on the dashbord so please can somebody help me.

PS. I have RasterPRopMonitor

Update: I have ASET props and Avionics.

Edited August 30, 2018 by LIPLOOP

[Mecripp]

7 hours ago, LIPLOOP said:

Yeah...

I have a Problem with this mod

Whenever i go IVA, the dash bored is empty! there is nothing on the dashbord so please can somebody help me.

PS. I have RasterPRopMonitor

Update: I have ASET props and Avionics.

What command pod you using ? And your not going to get much help with out a log file you need to post so they or some one can help you.

PS they are working for me

[DeckerExpert]

On 8/31/2018 at 12:18 AM, Mecripp said:

What command pod you using ? And your not going to get much help with out a log file you need to post so they or some one can help you.

PS they are working for me

I like useing the MK 1 Pod