totm dec 2023 [WIP] [1.12.x] MOARdV's Avionics Systems - MAS Interactive IVA! (v1.3.7, 7 April 2023)

[610yesnolovely]

Ooo, updates. Thanks for the Reviva mention in the OP!

Also I managed to make some Reviva config to switch both the Apollo CM IVA from MOARdVPlus - onto the latest 1.10.1 BDB Kane modules. I'm attempting to upgrade the MAS_ACTION_GROUP to work with new/changed part names. Still WIP, but I must say both those IVA are marvellous. Dim and night lights and those special action buttons are clever.

https://github.com/harveyt/reviva/commits/main

The only problem I have with switching is the MASFlightComputer reads the MAS_ACTION_GROUP and some other things from the config nodes on the part, but with Reviva it doesn't initialize quite right when switching. The technique I use in Reviva is on switching I destroy any RPMVesselComputer and/or MASFlightComputer on the part, and create a new one at exactly the same location.  With RPMVesselComputer, it has an OnLoad which parses the config I pass (which I get from the B9PartSwitch sub-type data). MASFlightComputer however gets the config node by looking for the MASFlightComputer node in the part's config (via Utility.GetPartModuleConfigNode).

My thoughts are: a) modify MAS itself to allow Reviva to tell it values, b) modify the part's config to change the data that it will read.

The latter is what I do for the Part's INTERNAL value, but that's ok, because Reviva is essentially taking full control of that field and will always set it correctly. I think in this case it's probably okay to modify part.partInfo for the MASFlightComputer before it sees it for the same reason.

Update: Seems to be working, though I'm having to update the part names and actions to more modern BDB. Fun!

Also I'd be interested to hear if you think there's any other weird things that might happen or break when I destroy and recreate the MASFlightComputer (which the IVA is unloaded of course).

Edited April 28, 2022 by 610yesnolovely

[MOARdV]

12 hours ago, 610yesnolovely said:

Also I'd be interested to hear if you think there's any other weird things that might happen or break when I destroy and recreate the MASFlightComputer

I honestly haven't considered it.  I think that it'll be okay if the IVA is already unloaded - the props have references to the flight computer, but if the props don't exist, there isn't a problem there.

[Manul]

On 4/27/2022 at 4:57 PM, MOARdV said:

as well as (hopefully) some problems that crop up when switching multi-mode engines.

Yessss! After switching mode using action groups all readings are nominal. Dreams about an ultimate SSTO cockpit are coming true.

Switching mode with MAS switch causes the same effect as before (the rapier is actually running and producing 70kn of thrust)

I think most people use AG's for engine control (my AGs are assigned to HOTAS buttons) so it's not a big deal.

 

I made 1024x512 maps of Laythe, Duna and Eve using SCANsat  and made them available at Flight, Navigation, Orbit and Landing screens of MFD2.  9 more celestials to map and I'll make a pull request with all maps (and maybe with a few cockpits and extra props)

 

[MOARdV]

6 hours ago, Manul said:

Switching mode with MAS switch causes the same effect as before (the rapier is actually running and producing 70kn of thrust)

Partially working is better than not working.  I'll take a look at the switching code and see if I can kick it into working.

6 hours ago, Manul said:

I made 1024x512 maps of Laythe, Duna and Eve using SCANsat  and made them available at Flight, Navigation, Orbit and Landing screens of MFD2.  9 more celestials to map and I'll make a pull request with all maps (and maybe with a few cockpits and extra props)

Yes, please!  That would be fantastic.  Even just Laythe, Duna, and Eve would be awesome.

[610yesnolovely]

I saw your Flanker IVA pictures, and now these - are any of these IVA published anywhere yet? Or is it super early WIP coming soon (TM)?

I'm still building a list of IVA in the Reviva mod (one of it's purposes is to "Collect Them All") - https://github.com/harveyt/reviva/blob/main/README.md#dependency-summary

@MOARdV - feel free to either copy-paste the MAS ones to your OP, or just link to the table. I'll be adding links to each mod over time.

As to map images... that's a neat idea. If ones of Earth, Moon, Mars, et. al. were done, would they work for various size scalings so KSRSS, RSS could be covered? I think looking at the textures and cfg files it's just based on longditude, with zero being the center? So probably would work fine.

Edited April 29, 2022 by 610yesnolovely

[Manul]

3 hours ago, 610yesnolovely said:

I saw your Flanker IVA pictures, and now these - are any of these IVA published anywhere yet? Or is it super early WIP coming soon (TM)?

I'm using my Flanker IVA and OPT-J HT IVA by vulkans22. Flanker IVA was created mostly for testing purpose, it's a mess of props that I was testing or I'm testing now like ammo gauges, GPWS or switches for gravitic generators. I have one OPT and one LLL cockpit almost finished and coming soon(TM)

3 hours ago, 610yesnolovely said:

As to map images... that's a neat idea. If ones of Earth, Moon, Mars, et. al. were done, would they work for various size scalings so KSRSS, RSS could be covered? I think looking at the textures and cfg files it's just based on longditude, with zero being the center? So probably would work fine.

Maps of Kerbin, Mun and Minmus are 1024x512 pictures that are used as background image by MFD subpages. I guess that these maps were made using SCANsat so I did the same for some other celestials. Laythe map works fine, didn't test Duna and Eve yet.  SCANsat can save maps as images with adjustable resolution (you need to choose image width in options, default is 512) Possibly 1024x512 will not be enough for real scale planets but I'm not sure if the MFD will handle something bigger.

Edited April 29, 2022 by Manul

[Stone Blue]

As to maps, not sure this would be helpful, but dropping it here....

https://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/index.php?/topic/181688-kerbal-maps-is-back-sort-of/

[Manul]

4 hours ago, MOARdV said:

Partially working is better than not working.

Definitely.  I guess it was not easy to fix due to the multimode functionality being split into several modules.

[610yesnolovely]

From the 1.3.0 and 1.3.1 release notes:

Quote

NOTE: A partial ASET Avionics and ASET Props upgrade patch is included, but disabled. To try it, please rename GameData/MOARdV/Patches/AsetToMasUpgrade.nocfg to GameData/MOARdV/Patches/AsetToMasUpgrade.cfg. Currently, you will need RasterPropMonitor installed to enable any props that are not already updated. There are no guarantees that partially-updated IVAs will work perfectly.

That was true for 1.2.3, but these two releases have it enabled - I notice because with dev on Reviva I often test with both RPM+MAS and some IVA, from Airplane Plus IVA Pack (yup Airplane Plus support coming soon), don't work as well with it enabled.

No biggy for me 'cos I just put in a "mv" in my automated install scripts, but this might catch people out.

I have seen no issues with the Jsi upgrade though, in fact it makes a few things a lot better - particularly the pop-up HUD.   

[MOARdV]

15 hours ago, 610yesnolovely said:

That was true for 1.2.3, but these two releases have it enabled

That's a mistake on my part.  The mega-patch isn't ready for prime time, since it's incomplete.  I'll fix that with 1.3.2

[Sesshaku]

On 4/29/2022 at 3:39 PM, Manul said:

I'm using my Flanker IVA and OPT-J HT IVA by vulkans22. Flanker IVA was created mostly for testing purpose, it's a mess of props that I was testing or I'm testing now like ammo gauges, GPWS or switches for gravitic generators. I have one OPT and one LLL cockpit almost finished and coming soon(TM)

Maps of Kerbin, Mun and Minmus are 1024x512 pictures that are used as background image by MFD subpages. I guess that these maps were made using SCANsat so I did the same for some other celestials. Laythe map works fine, didn't test Duna and Eve yet.  SCANsat can save maps as images with adjustable resolution (you need to choose image width in options, default is 512) Possibly 1024x512 will not be enough for real scale planets but I'm not sure if the MFD will handle something bigger.

I know someone on this forum gave me a real earth map that works fine with MFD. I am interested in this since I am playing RP1, if I can export maps on that resolution with ScanSat and make them work I'll share them here.
Regarding maps and MFD, during a test I found that MFD was showing me two different locations depending on the panel, the one on the right is the correct one.

https://i.imgur.com/p5PmwfI.png

[MOARdV]

15 hours ago, Sesshaku said:

Regarding maps and MFD, during a test I found that MFD was showing me two different locations depending on the panel, the one on the right is the correct one.

My first guess is that the map is not 1024x512.  I probably did not have a specific size on the map display on the left, based on the assumption that all the maps I had were 1024x512.  That's a relatively easy fix on my end.

[MOARdV]

And MAS v1.3.2 is now up on GitHub.  This is another point release to fix the wrong-sized world maps @Sesshaku reported, plus (hopefully) the rest of the multi-mode engine fix for @Manul

There is also the beginnings of a prototype general-purpose touchscreen MFD prop for anyone wanting to live on the ragged edge of MAS technology.  It doesn't do much, and you definitely don't want it to be your only prop (yet), but it'll give you a peek of the UX I'm going to try to work with.

 

EDIT: And, if anyone wants to provide feedback or suggestions for what the touchscreen MFD should do, the left MFD shows all of the pages I've thought of so far.  Feel free to provide suggestions for what sort of pages I should add.  The ideal goal is that just about everything can be controlled from the MFD.

Edited May 1, 2022 by MOARdV

[610yesnolovely]

Touchscreen MFD - I know they were available on some mods (Flying Saucers, Rodan?) - but I've never got round to trying them.

I think I'll be adding some variants of existing IVA with these enabled in Reviva - for example, in the Mk1-3 I already have variants of the DE_IVA (and ASET I think) that swap out some ASET MFD for MAS ones.

I've noticed that the IFMS MFD when paired with the keyboard is more useful for autopilot, but the other is more useful for other things, so I should really have the alternatives have both: so perhaps "High Tech" would have those, and "Near Future" have these? I dunno.

Love it though. Happy to help test.

Edited May 1, 2022 by 610yesnolovely

[MOARdV]

41 minutes ago, 610yesnolovely said:

I've noticed that the IFMS MFD when paired with the keyboard is more useful for autopilot, but the other is more useful for other things, so I should really have the alternatives have both: so perhaps "High Tech" would have those, and "Near Future" have these? I dunno.

If I ever manage to complete documentation for the props, there'd be a guide to the MFDs.

MFD1 is loosely inspired by the Soyuz MFDs.

MFD2 was a general-purpose MFD for orbital space craft (out to Mun / Minmus orbit).

IFMS (Integrated Flight Management System) was an attempt to make an MFD that had more capability, so there was the MFD plus a terminal for configuration (the kOS MFD).

The problem with IFMS, and maybe MFD2, is I always run out of inspiration trying to get the MFDs completed.  I think that's because I had specific pages on the MFD that I had ideas on, and I get those working, but I didn't really know what else I wanted to do with the MFD.

I'm currently planning on updating the Mk1-3 IVA included in MAS to be a touch-enabled IVA, since there are other props that can support touch capability.  Take a look at MAS_IndADV_Touch_Throttle: you can set throttle position by tapping on the gauge.  I'll be adding more controls like that when I think of them.

EDIT: Yeah, MFD2 + IFMS both could stand finishing, so they're both more useful, since neither is intended to be used when the other is in the same IVA.

Edited May 1, 2022 by MOARdV

[ElonsMusk]

Gorgeous..........!!!

[610yesnolovely]

It's a real shame Alexustas's MAS work seems to be lost, except for the videos. They're very complex and clever.

They're good for ideas though. I also enjoy watching @vulkansvideos for inspiration. I'd love to have the time to work out kOS and/or help updating some of the MAS MFDs, build some IVA, learn Blender/Unity, etc. etc. but then I have real work, life and playing KSP.

As for MFD functionality, the things missing for me are present in some form in RPM or kOS: Landing ILS (NavUtils), Science info/control, Node planning/editing, so yeah, it's hard to know what things are important. There's too much that could be done. Ensuring the MechJeb / Autopilot / Attitude and Manoeuvre viewing/planning/editing is great. That's what I use the most. One thing that would be nice is an MFD science display/info/execution page: what science could be done here, has been done, stored, transmitted. That's quite a complex and involved thing though, which is why I've not seen it done. 

 

Edited May 1, 2022 by 610yesnolovely

[Stone Blue]

Yeah... I would like to see a moar science oriented panel.... to control experiments/transmit data/etc... Would be even awesomer if many of the science mods were supported.

[MOARdV]

18 hours ago, Stone Blue said:

I would like to see a moar science oriented panel

Oh, yeah.  A science page.  I only play sandbox, so I never get to use science experiments.  I'll add that to the list

[Manul]

On 5/1/2022 at 8:51 PM, MOARdV said:

MFD2 was a general-purpose MFD for orbital space craft (out to Mun / Minmus orbit).

MFD2 also proved to be extremely useful for aircraft. Since I first saw it in one of PrakasaAeroworks  cockpits it entirely changed my ideas about cockpit design  from "place as many instruments  as possible" to "all fight data on a single MFD". It allows to move comfortably across the planet without using map view including scramjet-powered intercontinental ballistic travel (if something doesn't overheat and ruin the day with a series of explosions).

Edited May 2, 2022 by Manul

[Stone Blue]

22 hours ago, MOARdV said:

Oh, yeah.  A science page.  I only play sandbox, so I never get to use science experiments.  I'll add that to the list

As to specific mods to consider, off the top of my head,  I would put DMagic's Orbital Science, MOAR Station Science, USI science stuff, & BDB at the top of the list.

But I guess you dont need to try to do *all* the science mods out there... vOv
I guess as long as support for stock, or maybe just *one* of the moar comprehensive science mods out there, would be good...
Just get a base configuration setup/working, so maybe *others* can fill in/expand on it, for support for other, moar specific science mods... ?? vOv

Edited May 3, 2022 by Stone Blue

[MOARdV]

14 hours ago, Manul said:

MFD2 also proved to be extremely useful for aircraft.

Oh, yeah.  The Flight page on that MFD was my first experiment at a configurable page, and I tried to get it close to a conventional aircraft T-cluster of instruments.  I'm leaning on the work I did for that page for the touchscreen MFD.  If things go well, I might have that page mostly done this weekend.

1 hour ago, Stone Blue said:

But I guess you dont need to try to do *all* the science mods out there

Yeah, it depends.  I don't play science playthroughs, so I'm not inclined to add support for mods that I wouldn't use.  I guess it's a question of how easy it is to talk to the mods, and how stable their interface is.  That'll be down the road a ways, though.

[Manul]

On 5/1/2022 at 10:10 PM, Stone Blue said:

Yeah... I would like to see a moar science oriented panel.... to control experiments/transmit data/etc... Would be even awesomer if many of the science mods were supported.

This is what came into my mind while I was thinking what to put on the central panel instead of the propellant monitor.

I'm not good at creating MFD pages so it may be just a set of buttons and digital indicators indicating the biome name and available experiments. Ideally it should be another MFD with a custom page that has a biome map and some basic science control, but I'm not sure I can make a fully functional MFD page and Jeb has already ran out of fuel scanning all these planets for me.

Edited May 3, 2022 by Manul

[minkar81002]

Were these problems fixed in the new release?

Spoiler

On 4/8/2022 at 12:00 AM, minkar81002 said:

I was having some problems. I installed following mods: Reviva, MAS, RPM, the retro Mk1 Lander Can, and the fancy Mk1-2 Command Pod.

A.) While in the Mk-1 Command Pod (the retro-style controls) at some point I couldn't change the controls on the FDAI. I went to the tracking station and came back, and it worked again.

B.) But then I realized that the RDVZ button on the DSKY for the Mk1 Command Pod was not working. An error entry went to the log each time I pressed it, apparently.

C.) The more serious problem is that I experienced a game crash / hang when I docked two vessels together. I was in the Mk1 Lander Can (the one included in the other mod) and was docking to the retro -Mk1 Command Pod (as the latter has no docking utilities in its IVA). I had the X pointer and the docking camera turned on. When the docking happened, my game became unresponsive. I looked at the log, and it was spammed with thousands of copies of a block of error messages.

I have included the relevant log messages for problems B and C in the following pastebin: https://pastebin.com/GXB0VjnY

 

Spoiler

On 4/8/2022 at 2:16 PM, minkar81002 said:

Hello. It turns out that bugs B and C (the problem with pressing RNDZ and the crash upon docking) are related to one another. I have figured out how to replicate the hang/crash. Here is the save file: https://www.dropbox.com/s/qesqnd7y9jhzl2u/crash setup.sfs?dl=0 which has only 1 craft in the world.

Steps to reproduce:

1. Create a test world, copy "crash setup.sfs" into its save folder, and load into the save.
2. Undock the two halves of the craft by right-clicking the Clamp-o-tron Jr. on top of the Lander Can. You are now controlling the command pod craft.
3. Select the lander's docking port as  a target.
4. Go into IVA and click the RNDZ button. Notice that this freezes the DSKY and produces an error in KSP.log.
5. Press C to return from IVA and press ] to go over to the lander craft.
6. Select the command pod's docking port as a target.
7. Press ] to go back to the command pod craft or, alternatively, dock with it. The game will hang. The longer you wait to forcibly close KSP, the bigger the KSP.log file will become. I suppose that if you wait too long, you will fill your hard drive with one giant log file.

Note that if you perform step 4 but do not perform step 6, then: switching craft from the command pod craft, over to the lander craft, and back to the command pod craft causes there to be an error message which talks about a MAS initialization error, but it does not cause a crash/hang.

I checked and step 4 is necessary but not sufficient for a crash/hang. Step 6 is also necessary but not sufficient for a crash/hang. After much trial and error, I believe that the above steps are the minimum required to reproduce the crash.

I have also included my last KSP.log file. The log file is 26 MB but it compresses down to a 382 KB .zip file so I uploaded it as a .zip file here: https://www.dropbox.com/s/ovrqike3kvocvtd/crash log.zip?dl=0

So, in conclusion, MAS's built-in Mk1 Command Pod retro IVA has a messed up DSKY, with the RNDZ button being broken. Do not press it. Separately, as I have described on the Reviva page, do not press the MAS Mk1 Command Pod's Recovery switch as this will also put your savegame into a broken state.

 

Spoiler

On 4/10/2022 at 1:12 PM, minkar81002 said:

 

I've done some tests and I have determined the following:

1. the game crash/hang that I described above--which is caused by the broken RNDZ button in the MAS-included Mk1 Command Pod in conjunction with mutually-targeted docking ports and then switching vessels or docking--still occurs when Reviva, B9PartSwitch, and DE_IVAExtensions are all removed. So I can say pretty definitively that this is a bug caused specifically by MAS.

2. the broken interface system caused by pressing the Recovery switch in the MAS-included Mk1 Command Pod (what happens is that, after pressing the button at the KSP Launch Pad [and perhaps more locations], you are unable to click on most buildings and cannot even exit the game via the Esc menu) is also present with all those mods removed. So again I'm pretty sure that this is a problem specifically caused by MAS.

 

 

[MOARdV]

46 minutes ago, minkar81002 said:

Were these problems fixed in the new release?

I did not make changes related to them, mainly because I lost track of them (I was in the hospital for an extended period a month ago).  I will try to get a GitHub issue opened with a link to your info so I can set some time aside to reproduce and diagnose the issue.  It may also be worthwhile to look at them again with the updated MAS.  FWIW, I did recover a vessel through MAS without any odd behavior, but that was not specifically at the launch pad.  That's a quick one for me to check locally, however.