[1.4.X] OSE Workshop Continued - KIS Addon

[mr. engino]

1 hour ago, COL.R.Neville said:

yeah if you look up a few more posts you will see he is already working on the recipe loader problems. 

 so I noticed...

[Soylent_keen]

On 3/31/2018 at 5:47 PM, Aelfhe1m said:

Not the problem in this case unfortunately. OSE Workshop creates its own independent config nodes which are being read by the loader. The only thing shared with the other mods is the name of the resource (ablator).

It looks like there has been some change in the way that the config node reader or co-routines work in the latest version that is causing the loading code in Workshop to fail for installs with a larger number of parts. It works OK with just Wortkshop and stock parts or even with a few small part mods but adding KSPIE or any of the other larger part mods seems to trigger this error.

I'll keep digging and if I can't figure out how to fix the current code I'll change it to use an alternative loading method that I know does work.

Ugh, I just got this tonight myself when I added interstellar to my ksp 1.4.2.  super appreciate your effort in looking into this.  I've always had the plan to add interstellar to my build once this career playthrough reached a mature point of progression but when I stumbled upon this workshop build last month I wondered how I ever lived without it.  Love this mod btw, great work!

[cineboxandrew]

I feel like the recipe system should be removed entirely. it adds to load time to calculate something that could be done with you hit "build"

[Apaseall]

@Aelfhe1m

Hi, this post is written in order to be helpful.

This mod interacts with ExtraPlanetaryLaunchPads in so much that a reference is made to Productivity Factor.

Please update this reference to reflect that ExtraPlanetaryLaunchPads fairly recently went through a name change for its modules.

Specifically MODULE ExWorkshop is now called ELWorkshop.

Can you double check that the information I here am passing on is correct and make changes in this mod accordingly.

Thank you.

at least one reference can be found in MM_Workshop.cfg located in \GameData\Workshop

Edited June 29, 2018 by Apaseall

[Lord_inter]

Hey, I've used this mod for an age now, been afk a bit,

 

The workshop is asking me for equipment for some of the science modules to be made but I can't find it.

I'm using most of the USI pack (apart from the asteroid bit) and angels buffalo and airship mods amongst others, any ideas what's going on?

[Johould]

Is there any way to configure switchable parts before building them? I didn't notice any options in the workshop UI. (In particular I got stuck with some Mk2 Expansion parts that use IFS to switch meshes along with the tank setup. MKS has many configurable parts too, but those can all be switched after construction).

[Apaseall]

Back again. This is incorrect:

Spoiler

//ProductivityforExtraplanetaryLaunchpads
@PART[OSE_Workshop]:NEEDS[Launchpad]
{
    MODULE
    {
        name = ExWorkshop
        ProductivityFactor = 5
    }
}

It should be:

Spoiler

//ProductivityforExtraplanetaryLaunchpads
@PART[OSE_Workshop]:NEEDS[Launchpad]
{
    MODULE
    {
        name = ELWorkshop
        ProductivityFactor = 5
    }
}

It is found in MM_Workshop.cfg located at \GameData\Workshop.

A temporary work around is to create your own patch:

Spoiler

//    Workshop
@PART[OSE_Workshop]:NEEDS[Workshop&Launchpad]:AFTER[Workshop]
{

    -MODULE[ExWorkshop] {}

    MODULE
    {
        name = ELWorkshop
        ProductivityFactor = 5
    }
}

 

[AccidentalDisassembly]

13 hours ago, Apaseall said:

Back again. This is incorrect:

  Hide contents

//ProductivityforExtraplanetaryLaunchpads
@PART[OSE_Workshop]:NEEDS[Launchpad]
{
    MODULE
    {
        name = ExWorkshop
        ProductivityFactor = 5
    }
}

 

This will (probably) fix it for all parts, if you prefer:

@PART[*]:HAS[@MODULE[ExWorkshop]]:FINAL
{
	@MODULE[ExWorkshop]
	{
		@name = ELWorkshop
	}
}

 

[Baladain]

I'm wondering why parts require funds to build.  Isn't the whole point of off-world manufacturing that it happens outside the homeworld economy?

 

[Stone Blue]

@Aelfhe1m , or anyone else who knows, I went thru all the cfgs in the mod, and I'm just wondering what exactly requires Firespitter to be a dependency?

[Angelo Kerman]

21 minutes ago, Stone Blue said:

@Aelfhe1m , or anyone else who knows, I went thru all the cfgs in the mod, and I'm just wondering what exactly requires Firespitter to be a dependency?

The workshop parts, I think. I havelooked at them in a long time, but I vaguely recall that they used Firespitter. I think it was the storage containers.

Edited September 20, 2018 by Angel-125

[Angelo Kerman]

1 hour ago, Baladain said:

I'm wondering why parts require funds to build.  Isn't the whole point of off-world manufacturing that it happens outside the homeworld economy?

 

The original author was trying to avoid an exploit if I recall correctly. Something to the effect of having a money machine by printing parts, shipping them home, and recovering them. With the converter from Ore to MaterialKits it would be easy to print up parts and sell them for profit. To make things harder the author introduced recipes for certain parts that required specific resources. I don’t remember if those resources are listed when you examine a part to see what its requirements are. 

Yes I know there are arguments against having to pay full cost for printed parts... Maybe a future update will let you change the percentage charged as a royalties fee, or turn off that feature altogether.

[Daveroski]

2 hours ago, Baladain said:

I'm wondering why parts require funds to build.  Isn't the whole point of off-world manufacturing that it happens outside the homeworld economy?

 

 

46 minutes ago, Angel-125 said:

The original author was trying to avoid an exploit if I recall correctly. Something to the effect of having a money machine by printing parts, shipping them home, and recovering them. With the converter from Ore to MaterialKits it would be easy to print up parts and sell them for profit. To make things harder the author introduced recipes for certain parts that required specific resources. I don’t remember if those resources are listed when you examine a part to see what its requirements are. 

Yes I know there are arguments against having to pay full cost for printed parts... Maybe a future update will let you change the percentage charged as a royalties fee, or turn off that feature altogether.

 

A pointless and ridiculous effort on the author's part.

If someone wants to cheat all they have to do is use the cheat menu and give themselves more money or science.

If someone goes through the effort of setting up a system to produce parts for resale, they at least have done some work to print them.

Meanwhile those of us who play games about self sufficient colonies end up having unnecessary weights added.

I enjoy setting up a complex but eventually self-sufficient base but now there are few options in the genre.

MKS was fun but now I can set up a colony gather resources and then have to wait a few years for a package to arrive from Kerbin before I can build anything. Made a mistake in the build? Want to upgrade something? Wait another few years for another package from Kerbin.

All the effort to gather resources and still having to wait for delivery... It's easier just to send the whole thing and not bother with the resources and complex base.

However I want a base.. I want complexity... I just don't want the whole 'still depending on Kerbin' rubbish.

And why?

Because some donkey suggests that some people may get enjoyment out it in ways that weren't intended.

Some of us were enjoying it the way it was intended but now it's become too silly to bother with.

 

[Angelo Kerman]

@Daveroski Doesn’t Global Construction let you make the DIY kits offworld now? I don’t use it, I’m a fan of Extraplanetary Launchpads, which doesn’t use DIY kits, but I thought that restriction was lifted. Anyway, if OSE let you reduce or eliminate the Funds cost and made recipies optional (both set from the Settings menus in KSP), that would improve quality of life for users.

[Daveroski]

6 minutes ago, Angel-125 said:

@Daveroski Doesn’t Global Construction let you make the DIY kits offworld now? I don’t use it, I’m a fan of Extraplanetary Launchpads, which doesn’t use DIY kits, but I thought that restriction was lifted. Anyway, if OSE let you reduce or eliminate the Funds cost and made recipies optional (both set from the Settings menus in KSP), that would improve quality of life for users.

Yes but you still have to wait a couple of years for the 'DIY Kit' to arrive from home before you can star making it. That defeats the objective to me, I'd sooner just send the completed item from home than spend ages looking for resources, mining the resourced storing the resources only to have to wait a couple of years for this 'kit' to arrive.

 

[adsii1970]

2 hours ago, Angel-125 said:

Yes I know there are arguments against having to pay full cost for printed parts... Maybe a future update will let you change the percentage charged as a royalties fee, or turn off that feature altogether.

As someone who owned a print shop, even though someone else would bring in their own paper, I did charge for making copies. It would be the same way for off-Kerbin production even though you are "using" a 3D printer. You still have to maintain the equipment to produce the parts and there's still the resources spent in gathering the regolith to produce the parts. In other words, any cost should cover the cost of materials AND the cost of equipment maintenance.

So, with that said, maybe not the full price as would be charged on Kerbin, but most definitely a percentage. But that might have to be accomplished through a module manager plugin that takes into consideration spawning points (on kerbin versus some other body) using extraplanetary launch pads. Or at least that's how I could see a patch file/mod working to accomplish this...

[Baladain]

Wow, hot topic, I will try to address things in order as best I can.

@Angel-125

You're right, some parts do require components other than Material kits, and they do show in the description.  I have no issue with that, as it makes sense that specific materials are needed to make specific things. 

Someone could set up a factory on another moon/planet, and send the finished products to Kerbin for cash.  That's not a cheat, that's called industry.

 

@Daveroski Ground construction now lets you build DIY kits in-situ.  No more waiting for a package to be delivered to set up something new.  Check out the new videos in the OP on that thread.  It has really come a long way.

@adsii1970 I get where you're coming from, but there's a flaw in your logic.  Someone isn't coming to you with paper and asking you to make copies.  YOU are coming to YOU and asking YOU to make copies.  (This is starting to sound like space madness) You mine the materials, refine them into kits, then use your printer to create a finished product.  There is no third party for you to charge.

 

IMO, I think it would make a lot more sense if the funds were removed, but the amount of materials was increased.

But, I run OSE with MKS and Ground Construction, I'm used to having to keep building machinery in order to keep my mining and refining operations going to make my parts, so maybe that changes my perspective.

[adsii1970]

10 minutes ago, Baladain said:

I get where you're coming from, but there's a flaw in your logic.  Someone isn't coming to you with paper and asking you to make copies.  YOU are coming to YOU and asking YOU to make copies.  (This is starting to sound like space madness) You mine the materials, refine them into kits, then use your printer to create a finished product.  There is no third party for you to charge.

It's only been about eight hours since my last cup of coffee. Never proclaimed my logic was perfect... But even if I were making my own copies, there is still the cost of operating the equipment and the supplies needed to make the copies. You're right, technically I cannot submit myself a bill (and no, I never did). But in my month ending profits/loss worksheet, I actually had a line where I calculated the cost for copies made in-house which were not sold. So, in the end, the cost of producing those copies did come out of the overall profit.

It could be that you take some of the regolith, convert it into ore, then into fuel to use in the machinery to convert the regolith into what's needed to construct the parts desired...

Or, maybe have the machinery require repairing by an engineer after so many units of production are made...

Um, you know what? I think it is time for a cup of coffee before I get my two brain cells caught up in some sort of logic dance...

Edited September 20, 2018 by adsii1970

[Angelo Kerman]

I hope @Aelfhe1m is doing ok, last posting was April...

[Angelo Kerman]

In @Aelfhe1m's absence I'm resuming caretaker status of OSE Workshop and am working on some quality of life improvements. Here's a teaser:

[goldenpsp]

Thank you @Angel-125.  You rock as always.

[Angelo Kerman]

56 minutes ago, goldenpsp said:

Thank you @Angel-125.  You rock as always.

No worries, many mods make use of OSE Workshop and I’d hate to see it wither away. I would like to see someone pick up the torch once I finish the refit as my plate is pretty full but for now I can keep things going.

Question: There are three versions of the workshop, Workshop, AI Workshop, and Chemical Workshop, and they appear to be just cosmetically different. I don’t normally use these parts, so I’m unsure about how they’re used. Does MKS do anything special with the different workshops? If not I was thinking that the AI Workshop could operate without a crew but do so at a higher ElectricCharge cost and slower production rate while the Chemical Workshop could have some other benefit. Any ideas?

[goldenpsp]

24 minutes ago, Angel-125 said:

No worries, many mods make use of OSE Workshop and I’d hate to see it wither away. I would like to see someone pick up the torch once I finish the refit as my plate is pretty full but for now I can keep things going.

Question: There are three versions of the workshop, Workshop, AI Workshop, and Chemical Workshop, and they appear to be just cosmetically different. I don’t normally use these parts, so I’m unsure about how they’re used. Does MKS do anything special with the different workshops? If not I was thinking that the AI Workshop could operate without a crew but do so at a higher ElectricCharge cost and slower production rate while the Chemical Workshop could have some other benefit. Any ideas?

Honestly I'm not sure.  MKS OSE functionality works via its own parts so I've never used the OSE parts.

[Angelo Kerman]

Almost done with the refit. here's another teaser:

Still fiddling with the time display. KSP has a timestamp utility which helps but I can't figure out how to include units. It needs to be a bit more descriptive...

Edited October 26, 2018 by Angel-125

[Angelo Kerman]

Aha!