Advanced RCS Question

[SYDWAD]

I remember back just before 1.0 there was a mod that allowed you to toggle a button in the hanger menu of a thruster or engine to essentially make it a giant RCS thruster as it it was controlled by the RCS system. I really think something resembling that would be amazing is the stock game for when you want to use RCS thrusters on a large to massive craft. The mod also auto adjusted the thrust of the thrusters on your ship during flight(if you wanted it to) so the center of thrust would always be directly on the mass.

It was an amazing mod if someone can find an updated version of it.

I would like to know if it would be possible for Squad to make it apart of stock KSP or any problems that may occur by trying to do so.

[septemberWaves]

Isn't that a stock option under the actuation toggles options?

[EpicSpaceTroll139]

1 hour ago, eloquentJane said:

Isn't that a stock option under the actuation toggles options?

Halfway correct. You can make your RCS thrusters fire with/as the main engines, but not the other way around.

[Rocket In My Pocket]

That might make the Vernor and Puff less attractive options. They may have to be reworked.

https://wiki.kerbalspaceprogram.com/wiki/Vernor_Engine

https://wiki.kerbalspaceprogram.com/wiki/O-10_"Puff"_MonoPropellant_Fuel_Engine

Also, the Caps lock key already balances RCS thrust somewhat.

[natsirt721]

3 hours ago, Rocket In My Pocket said:

Also, the Caps lock key already balances RCS thrust somewhat.

I thought fine controls just graduated the ramp-up speed of the control outputs. Does it do more than that?

[Tex_NL]

1 minute ago, natsirt721 said:

I thought fine controls just graduated the ramp-up speed of the control outputs. Does it do more than that?

It does indeed graduated the output. But as @Rocket In My Pocket said it also balances RCS thrust to some degree.

You can try this yourself. Build a simple, long and narrow craft with RCS near the end on one side and not far beyond the middle on the other. Under full RCS thrust a craft like this will rotate when translating. Under soft control the RCS thrusters at the far end will be reduced in an attempt to keep the total thrust vector near the CoM.

[SYDWAD]

The mod i was talking about also had an option to auto throttle individual main thrusters of the craft so you could have a like mainsail way off to the side and a ton of random little thrusters in the middle and it would august them all so your craft would fly straight also manage them when your fuel mass changed.
I found the mod made the "Puff" thruster and the like more useful because they are light, have more power than a single RCS thruster and you wouldn't need to lug RCS fuel around.

[Tex_NL]

7 minutes ago, SYDWAD said:

The mod i was talking about also had an option to auto throttle individual main thrusters of the craft so you could have a like mainsail way off to the side and a ton of random little thrusters in the middle and it would august them all so your craft would fly straight also manage them when your fuel mass changed.
I found the mod made the "Puff" thruster and the like more useful because they are light, have more power than a single RCS thruster and you wouldn't need to lug RCS fuel around.

Something like Throttle Controlled Avionics perhaps?

MechJeb can do a similar thing through its Differential Throttle option.

[SYDWAD]

1 hour ago, Tex_NL said:

Something like Throttle Controlled Avionics perhaps?

MechJeb can do a similar thing through its Differential Throttle option.

i think that might be it boi

[NSEP]

Definitely TCA, i wish we had this feature in stock though.

[Azimech]

Good news everyone! Just did a 5-minute mod.

It's entirely possible to modify a rocket engine to function in dual mode, as a normal rocket and RCS thruster at the same time. No custom libraries needed.

If anyone wants to create MM scripts for it, I'll be happy to provide the instructions.

 

Edited August 13, 2017 by Azimech

[NewtSoup]

13 minutes ago, Azimech said:

Good news everyone! Just did a 5-minute mod.

It's entirely possible to modify a rocket engine to function in dual mode, as a normal rocket and RCS thruster at the same time. No custom libraries needed.

If anyone wants to create MM scripts for it, I'll be happy to provide the instructions.

 

I would like that. I was trying to design a lander for Minmus that worked entirely on RCS and wanted to use the Puff Engines as main engines but couldn't work out how to tie them into RCS controls.

As a side note I tend to use place anywhere RCS thrusters and set them up to JUST do forward, aft, left, right, up, down using the actuation toggles.  All rotation is then controlled by reaction wheels.  I've found that if you try to do everything on RCS it can get more squirly than it needs to be.

Edited August 13, 2017 by NewtSoup

[TheRagingIrishman]

52 minutes ago, Azimech said:

Good news everyone! Just did a 5-minute mod.
It's entirely possible to modify a rocket engine to function in dual mode, as a normal rocket and RCS thruster at the same time. No custom libraries needed.
If anyone wants to create MM scripts for it, I'll be happy to provide the instructions.

Yes please

[SYDWAD]

sounds great 

[Gargamel]

5 hours ago, Azimech said:

Good news everyone!

 

Only in KSP is this, a way overpowered craft, spinning wildly out of control, considered to be good news and a success.  

[mattinoz]

7 hours ago, Azimech said:

Good news everyone! Just did a 5-minute mod.

It's entirely possible to modify a rocket engine to function in dual mode, as a normal rocket and RCS thruster at the same time. No custom libraries needed.

If anyone wants to create MM scripts for it, I'll be happy to provide the instructions.

 

So this would allow a cluster of non-gimble engines to vector thrust?

That would be very useful.

[Azimech]

5 minutes ago, mattinoz said:

So this would allow a cluster of non-gimble engines to vector thrust?

That would be very useful.

Hmmm ... if there are engines with four separate modules for four separate nozzles, this could be done.

[SchwinnTropius]

On 8/13/2017 at 0:50 PM, Azimech said:

Good news everyone!

 

Every time I read that I hear Dr. Farnsworth's voice.

[SYDWAD]

2 hours ago, SchwinnTropius said:

Every time I read that I hear Dr. Farnsworth's voice.

i know right?

[Azimech]

Okay, here goes.

For this example I've modifed the T-30. Take a look at this segment in the part.cfg:

MODULE
	{
		name = ModuleEngines
		thrustVectorTransformName = thrustTransform
		exhaustDamage = True
		ignitionThreshold = 0.1
		minThrust = 0
		maxThrust = 240
		heatProduction = 192
		fxOffset = 0, 0, 0.8
		EngineType = LiquidFuel
		exhaustDamageDistanceOffset = 1.05
		PROPELLANT
		{
			name = LiquidFuel
			ratio = 0.9
			DrawGauge = True
		}
		PROPELLANT
		{
			name = Oxidizer
			ratio = 1.1
		}
		atmosphereCurve
		{
			key = 0 310
			key = 1 265
			key = 7 0.001

		}
	}

I copied it and placed it beneath the original.

Now I compared it with a RCS thruster and modified the new segment like this:

MODULE
	{
		name = ModuleRCSFX
		thrusterTransformName = thrustTransform
		stagingEnabled = False
		exhaustDamage = True
		thrusterPower = 240
		//ignitionThreshold = 0.1
		//minThrust = 0
		//maxThrust = 240
		heatProduction = 192
		fxOffset = 0, 0, 0.8
		EngineType = LiquidFuel
		exhaustDamageDistanceOffset = 1.05
		PROPELLANT
		{
			name = LiquidFuel
			ratio = 0.9
			DrawGauge = True
		}
		PROPELLANT
		{
			name = Oxidizer
			ratio = 1.1
		}
		atmosphereCurve
		{
			key = 0 310
			key = 1 265
			key = 7 0.001

		}
	}

Now, because this engine uses ModuleEngines instead of the newer ModuleEnginesFX, there is no separate segment to specify the exhaust effects and sounds. Therefore, no FX and sounds.

If you adapt an engine which does use ModulesEnginesFX, add the following line like this:

name = ModuleRCSFX 
runningEffectName = running

And it should use the standard EFFECTS segment.

To do the same with ModuleEngines, you should do the same as in the above example but copy the EFFECTS segment from a different engine and manually replace the effect names with the ones specified at the top of the part.cfg.

To make it more visual, this:

fx_exhaustFlame_blue = 0.0, -10.3, 0.0, 0.0, 1.0, 0.0, running
fx_exhaustLight_blue = 0.0, -10.3, 0.0, 0.0, 0.0, 1.0, running
fx_smokeTrail_light = 0.0, -10.3, 0.0, 0.0, 1.0, 0.0, running
fx_exhaustSparks_flameout = 0.0, -10.3, 0.0, 0.0, 1.0, 0.0, flameout
sound_vent_medium = engage
sound_rocket_hard = running
sound_vent_soft = disengage
sound_explosion_low = flameout

will stay the way it is, and you create the new segment like this:

EFFECTS
	{
		running
		{
			AUDIO
			{
				channel = Ship
				clip = sound_rocket_hard
				volume = 0.0 0.0
				volume = 0.1 0.0
				volume = 0.5 0.05
				volume = 1.0 0.5
				pitch = 0.0 0.5
				pitch = 1.0 1.0
				loop = true
			}
			MODEL_MULTI_PARTICLE
			{
				modelName = fx_smokeTrail_light
				transformName = thrustTransform
				emission = 0.0 0.0
				emission = 0.1 0.0
				emission = 1.0 1.0
				speed = 0.0 0.8
				speed = 1.0 1.0
				localRotation = -90, 0, 0
			}
		}		
	}

To be honest, I haven't tested the FX stuff but it should work for a few of these effects. In the above example, you'll notice some missing. You'll need to specify a new sub segment and make an entry in the ModuleRCSFX section. Compare with other engines, the Panther is a good example. Some tuning of the effects might be required.

Also, if MODEL_MULTI_PARTICLE doesn't work, replace it with PREFAB_PARTICLE and vice versa.

So what you have now is an engine with two modes. However, they van be activated at the same time. To make stuff a little bit more realistic, I suggest to toggle the main rocket engine with the RCS button.

 

Edited August 16, 2017 by Azimech

[sevenperforce]

I'd like to see an option for actuation toggles to be available as action groups, if only to be able to turn off or cripple RCS attitude control while translating on docking approaches.

I often run into docking approaches where I'm dealing with small craft which have active stabilization, but using the RCS for this will prevent me from making a clean approach. It would be nice to have action groups preprogrammed to switch off the RCS+SAS link, so I could use RCS translation but leave SAS on so I could hold attitude using reaction wheels only.

[SYDWAD]

On 8/16/2017 at 5:18 AM, Azimech said:

Okay, here goes.

For this example I've modifed the T-30. Take a look at this segment in the part.cfg:

MODULE
	{
		name = ModuleEngines
		thrustVectorTransformName = thrustTransform
		exhaustDamage = True
		ignitionThreshold = 0.1
		minThrust = 0
		maxThrust = 240
		heatProduction = 192
		fxOffset = 0, 0, 0.8
		EngineType = LiquidFuel
		exhaustDamageDistanceOffset = 1.05
		PROPELLANT
		{
			name = LiquidFuel
			ratio = 0.9
			DrawGauge = True
		}
		PROPELLANT
		{
			name = Oxidizer
			ratio = 1.1
		}
		atmosphereCurve
		{
			key = 0 310
			key = 1 265
			key = 7 0.001

		}
	}

I copied it and placed it beneath the original.

Now I compared it with a RCS thruster and modified the new segment like this:

MODULE
	{
		name = ModuleRCSFX
		thrusterTransformName = thrustTransform
		stagingEnabled = False
		exhaustDamage = True
		thrusterPower = 240
		//ignitionThreshold = 0.1
		//minThrust = 0
		//maxThrust = 240
		heatProduction = 192
		fxOffset = 0, 0, 0.8
		EngineType = LiquidFuel
		exhaustDamageDistanceOffset = 1.05
		PROPELLANT
		{
			name = LiquidFuel
			ratio = 0.9
			DrawGauge = True
		}
		PROPELLANT
		{
			name = Oxidizer
			ratio = 1.1
		}
		atmosphereCurve
		{
			key = 0 310
			key = 1 265
			key = 7 0.001

		}
	}

Now, because this engine uses ModuleEngines instead of the newer ModuleEnginesFX, there is no separate segment to specify the exhaust effects and sounds. Therefore, no FX and sounds.

If you adapt an engine which does use ModulesEnginesFX, add the following line like this:

name = ModuleRCSFX 
runningEffectName = running

And it should use the standard EFFECTS segment.

To do the same with ModuleEngines, you should do the same as in the above example but copy the EFFECTS segment from a different engine and manually replace the effect names with the ones specified at the top of the part.cfg.

To make it more visual, this:

fx_exhaustFlame_blue = 0.0, -10.3, 0.0, 0.0, 1.0, 0.0, running
fx_exhaustLight_blue = 0.0, -10.3, 0.0, 0.0, 0.0, 1.0, running
fx_smokeTrail_light = 0.0, -10.3, 0.0, 0.0, 1.0, 0.0, running
fx_exhaustSparks_flameout = 0.0, -10.3, 0.0, 0.0, 1.0, 0.0, flameout
sound_vent_medium = engage
sound_rocket_hard = running
sound_vent_soft = disengage
sound_explosion_low = flameout

will stay the way it is, and you create the new segment like this:

EFFECTS
	{
		running
		{
			AUDIO
			{
				channel = Ship
				clip = sound_rocket_hard
				volume = 0.0 0.0
				volume = 0.1 0.0
				volume = 0.5 0.05
				volume = 1.0 0.5
				pitch = 0.0 0.5
				pitch = 1.0 1.0
				loop = true
			}
			MODEL_MULTI_PARTICLE
			{
				modelName = fx_smokeTrail_light
				transformName = thrustTransform
				emission = 0.0 0.0
				emission = 0.1 0.0
				emission = 1.0 1.0
				speed = 0.0 0.8
				speed = 1.0 1.0
				localRotation = -90, 0, 0
			}
		}		
	}

To be honest, I haven't tested the FX stuff but it should work for a few of these effects. In the above example, you'll notice some missing. You'll need to specify a new sub segment and make an entry in the ModuleRCSFX section. Compare with other engines, the Panther is a good example. Some tuning of the effects might be required.

Also, if MODEL_MULTI_PARTICLE doesn't work, replace it with PREFAB_PARTICLE and vice versa.

So what you have now is an engine with two modes. However, they van be activated at the same time. To make stuff a little bit more realistic, I suggest to toggle the main rocket engine with the RCS button.

 

thats cool

[KerBlitz Kerman]

Can we get the folders for all the STOCK engines/RCS. Some people are known to damage KSP? (I Mean me)