Did you think that Doctors today have way to much powers over you lives

[Steel]

 

8 hours ago, Pawelk198604 said:

...

And  it is almost certain that both Wright brothers had Asperger's Syndrome, that is, they should not fly because some moron in a white apron think so? 

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/carolyn-bass/new-novel-suggests-wright_b_3167940.html

Gentlemen please  

...

There is a big difference between pioneering the first powered flights in single seat planes (at a time when there were no pilot regulations because there were no pilots) and flying 400 people from London to New York. If the Wright brothers had been alive today and I was an airline owner, I would not let the Wright brothers fly a passenger aircraft if they have a disqualifying condition, it doesn't matter who they are.

Unfortunately, disqualifying conditions exist because doctors who have studied these condition for their entire careers think that they make someone who has them a higher risk to fly. An airline will always try to pick the pilots with lower risk. That is just how the world works I'm afraid.

The only way around this is to prove that a condition should not mean automatic disqualification, but you'd need medically backed evidence for that.

Edited August 28, 2017 by Steel

[Elthy]

Well, the Germanwings crash clearly showed that doctors dont have enough say in who should be a pilot. His condition was known, he had sick leaves for the day, but decided not to hand them in.

Edited August 28, 2017 by Elthy

[Green Baron]

To bring this down to science - which may sound heartless to the affected but i think there is nothing in here that the community doesn't already know - i cite from a site that describe asperger syndromes:

Spoiler

• may have an intense obsession with one or two specific, narrow subjects
• may strongly prefer repetitive routines or rituals and becomes upset at any small changes
• may memorize information and facts easily, especially information related to a topic of interest
• may have clumsy, uncoordinated movements, an odd posture or a rigid gait
• may perform repetitive movements, such as hand or finger flapping
• may engage in violent outbursts, self-injurious behaviors, tantrums or meltdowns
• may be hypersensitive to sensory stimulation such as light, sound, and texture
• may “day dream” or “zone out” when overstimulated

I am absolutely content if doctors decide not to issue the medical necessary for an aeronautical license to a person that shows one or several of these symptoms because they would disable the person to act appropriately in a situation that is out of the normal routine. That could be, if i understand it right, as easy a thing as a sudden crosswind short before touchdown instead of the announced "wind variable, 3knots", or the request to go around or divert because of animals on the airstrip or the encounter of marginal conditions on a VFR flight, the sudden appearance of crossing traffic that apparently hasn't noticed you and requires immediate action to avoid. Or the observation that you aren't quite where you thought you would be and now have to find your position with the map and maybe "electric" helpers, or ask ATC to give you a position, and still watch for traffic and speak with the guests on board if present. That is stress that should not keep you from felling the right decisions. And that is only PPL and VFR. "Electric" flight and jet handling/complex aircrafts are much more complicated.

There are so many thing that can happen that need a certain mental flexibility and repertoire, and the above list doesn't make me confident that a person with Asperger can handle these situations appropriately.

 

OP, you can answer your question yourself. If you have been to the doctor and he expressed his doubts then do something else as many others have to. That's all :-)

[kerbiloid]

Spoiler

2 hours ago, Green Baron said:

• may have an intense obsession with one or two specific, narrow subjects
• may strongly prefer repetitive routines or rituals and becomes upset at any small changes
• may memorize information and facts easily, especially information related to a topic of interest
• may have clumsy, uncoordinated movements, an odd posture or a rigid gait
• may perform repetitive movements, such as hand or finger flapping
• may engage in violent outbursts, self-injurious behaviors, tantrums or meltdowns
• may be hypersensitive to sensory stimulation such as light, sound, and texture
• may “day dream” or “zone out” when overstimulated

Haven't met Aspergers irl, but probably the described above could be described in two words as "sticky mind". Sticking to something specific, hardly unsticks, but when unsticks - does it in expressive way.

 

[GluttonyReaper]

EDIT: Removed for practical reasons.

Edited August 28, 2017 by GluttonyReaper
Change of heart

[Pawelk198604]

8 hours ago, qzgy said:

I think I have to agree with the majority of people here - the advice of a doctor, who has no criminal or bad intent should be listened to, and therefore, does not have too much power. His/her advice is valuable and sometimes necessary in certain occupations, especially high risk ones like a pilot or astronaut. It would seriously suck if every one in a tin can became sick enough to not fulfill their roles, which are kinda important.

Today I was with my internist for a painful sore on my foot, the doctor said that it was allergic atopic inflammation, but I did not want to write about it.

 

This is because the skin was in contact with the chicken picking mix, "hot & spice" because I works in KFC Poland   have a loot problem with finding job. 

 

I asked doc does i should mention transportation medicine doctor that i have pre-diabetes, because i once asked dermatologist does i will need to do so if i try for driver license, and that doctor said that depend on me, because i did not have diabetes officially, yet, and i will maybe never get it if i uphold her dietary regime she imposed on me, that i would not need to report it on medical but it's good things to do so.

 

As kid i have on condition that is listed on most nationals aviation permanently disqualifying and also can make pain in the ass if you try do driver license, but not have it since i was 13, so it's 18 years without it  i asked that does i need to report it does i need to report it on driver license medicals, she said that should just mention facts that are relevant now, that i can omits some Information from childhood, that no doctor not make detailed checks of those info even for people who trying for D (bus) C (for 18 wheeler) so i did not have mention it, but it would be good if tell that i have Aspergers because it hard to hide that  

[Pawelk198604]

5 hours ago, Steel said:

 

There is a big difference between pioneering the first powered flights in single seat planes (at a time when there were no pilot regulations because there were no pilots) and flying 400 people from London to New York. If the Wright brothers had been alive today and I was an airline owner, I would not let the Wright brothers fly a passenger aircraft if they have a disqualifying condition, it doesn't matter who they are.

Unfortunately, disqualifying conditions exist because doctors who have studied these condition for their entire careers think that they make someone who has them a higher risk to fly. An airline will always try to pick the pilots with lower risk. That is just how the world works I'm afraid.

The only way around this is to prove that a condition should not mean automatic disqualification, but you'd need medically backed evidence for that.

So you would disqualify this guy too

some said that he was on borderline of ASD  

 

I once talked with on of my friend, a psychologist, and she said that depend on particular person with ASD, that if she had to evaluate, aspie applying candidate for pilot license she would examine said aspie very closely to make general public safe on other hand and not be unfair or discriminatory for said aspie  

She said that every Aspie is different and no doctor or psychologist should generalize it. Like vision impairment  that you can be driver even career driver or even pilot if this  impairment not deviate to much. That when she goes for driver license doctor stamped (as we in Poland say despite most polish driver license are plastic one  ) special codes in her driver license that she need to wear glasses/or contact lens when she drive car, and if she violate that limitation is  penal ticket and 2 penal points on her license   

[Green Baron]

Guys, are you sure it is a good idea to disclose your sanity on the internet in detail ? One day somebody might hold that in front of you and ask whether this is you.

I mean, the doctor shall not talk about it to the firm but you shout it out in a game forum. If i were you, i would delete it and walk away whistling "Always look on the broight soide of loif ..." :-)

 

[Steel]

7 minutes ago, Pawelk198604 said:

So you would disqualify this guy too

some said that he was on borderline of ASD  

 

I once talked with on of my friend, a psychologist, and she said that depend on particular person with ASD, that if she had to evaluate, aspie applying candidate for pilot license she would examine said aspie very closely to make general public safe on other hand and not be unfair or discriminatory for said aspie  

She said that every Aspie is different and no doctor or psychologist should generalize it. Like vision impairment  that you can be driver even career driver or even pilot if this  impairment not deviate to much. That when she goes for driver license doctor stamped (as we in Poland say despite most polish driver license are plastic one  ) special codes in her driver license that she need to wear glasses/or contact lens when she drive car, and if she violate that limitation is  penal ticket and 2 penal points on her license   

I never specifically mentioned ASD, all I said was that I'd discount people who had a disqualifying condition. If a doctor deems someone with ASD to be fine, then they're fine to fly in my eyes.

 

Also, Neil Armstrong was never formally diagnosed with anything that would have disqualified him, but again, if he was alive today and I was the head of NASA, I would not let him fly if he had been diagnosed with a disqualifying condition.

 

Edited August 28, 2017 by Steel

[Pawelk198604]

3 minutes ago, Steel said:

I never specifically mentioned ASD, all I said was that I'd discount people who had a disqualifying condition. If a doctor deems someone with ASD to be fine, then they're fine to fly in my eyes.

 

Also, Neil Armstrong was never formally diagnosed with anything that would have disqualified him, but again, if he was alive today and I was the head of NASA, I would not let him fly if he had been diagnosed with a disqualifying condition.

 

maybe if he had something it was not disqualifying enough  

[YNM]

This is borderline blasting out loud your personal life now, @Pawelk198604. I can understand that it might feels OK because you're partially under the cloak of anonimity, but in any case the wide-open .net is never the best place to ask for something and everything.

Again, my final words stays the same - they'll hear themself. Life's might not be best for you now, but perhaps you could change those who you see relevant, very slowly.

[Pawelk198604]

9 minutes ago, YNM said:

This is borderline blasting out loud your personal life now, @Pawelk198604. I can understand that it might feels OK because you're partially under the cloak of anonimity, but in any case the wide-open .net is never the best place to ask for something and everything.

Again, my final words stays the same - they'll hear themself. Life's might not be best for you now, but perhaps you could change those who you see relevant, very slowly.

thanks  

[WinkAllKerb'']

well let's suppose telepathy what ever the "approximate alternate form/shape/meaning" it took exist for a few ? does this even mean anithing ...

anonimity ...

well ... basically ... this specific words just mean nothing, absolutely nothing in that specific totally 300% hypothetical context ... but anyway this belong to science fiction right ? yep yep a good movies, books plot for the next theatre show ...

wowo thoose cells phone are so small i can't count them in my own body, still they can read wi-fi while i can't ... weird isn't it ?

as a said a earlier & generic way and unrelated to palwek own stuff ... and unrelated to space work related hireds people ... generic medics ... tend to be 25 75 ... wich is sort of a pelican brief sad story short ...

also i won't discuss much further deeper this topic [4.2.2 back to one topics], and well i guess i t prolly has to do with self real over time in situ ,own experience ... something like that, may be

Edited August 29, 2017 by WinkAllKerb''
i was in the mood to just say hum ... as head IT!

[Gordon Fecyk]

From this thread, I'm observing that changes in medical knowledge resulted in changes in the rules. In the 1960s we didn't fully understand the effects of space flight and didn't know what medical conditions could inhibit pilots, so we sent folks in top physical condition. In the 1990s we knew more and thus could send comparably average folks up there. And we're still learning.

I don't believe it is fair to judge pilots from the past against today's rules, or to judge today's crews against rules from the 1960s. Sadly, if rule changes disqualify currently active pilots, then they're disqualified until they meet the new rules.

(And yes, if some rule change would disqualify me from what I do, too bad for me. Hopefully the rule-makers take their job seriously.)

[magnemoe]

On 25.8.2017 at 10:21 PM, Steel said:

For jobs where a small medical mishap could endanger the lives of many others (i.e pilots, astronauts e.t.c), I think it is right that doctors can stop people if they think it might be unsafe, however unfair it seems.

The astronaut you mention is Deke Slayton, who was grounded (quite rightly) because he had an irregular heart rhythm. He spent years after he was grounded trying to get back into active service, so he cut out smoking and drastically reduced his alcohol and caffeine intake and his heart condition got a lot better, so he was allowed to fly again.

For stuff like the early space program they had loads of people to choose from so they selected the best. As they did not know the physical requirements they prioritized on this. 
Anybody who was in the top 1000 group would work out well. 
Later shuttle and ISS missions had more data and science qualifications was more important. 
During WW2 pretty much any warm body worked, they needed hundreds of thousands of pilots they also knew an faction of them would die, if your fighter plane was hit by an 88mm AAA on an routine recon mission it did not matter how fit or good pilot you was.