Xd the great Posted October 15, 2018 Share Posted October 15, 2018 50 minutes ago, Scotius said: Doubt it. Besides, it would only be shifting problem from Soyuz to ISS. Hydrogen peroxide stored onboard the station would degrade too, complicating astonauts lives even more without any huge gain. What if we burn all the H2O2 for an orbot boost and refuel the soyuz with something from progress? Besides, a ballistic reentry is survivable, just not enjoyable. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AVaughan Posted October 15, 2018 Share Posted October 15, 2018 28 minutes ago, Xd the great said: What if we burn all the H2O2 for an orbot boost and refuel the soyuz with something from progress? Besides, a ballistic reentry is survivable, just not enjoyable. You and @Ho Lam Kerman are both ignoring the problem that unless the descent module was designed to be refueled in orbit, then it is probably not possible to refuel it except on the ground, even if the ISS had H2O2 available. The necessary valves and fittings are probably on the outside of the capsule, and not designed to be accessed during flight. Regarding the ballistic descent being survivable, I think it will only be survivable if the descent module renters heat shield first. Without KSP's magical reaction wheels that requires the descent module's reaction control system. Which is fueled by the hydrogen peroxide. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ho Lam Kerman Posted October 15, 2018 Share Posted October 15, 2018 (edited) Good point, @AVaughan. I go look up the Soyuz blueprints to see if I can find anything useful. Edit: Could this be a feeling port or whatever, circled in grey? I'll try find more detailed blueprints. Edited October 15, 2018 by Ho Lam Kerman Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kerbiloid Posted October 15, 2018 Share Posted October 15, 2018 (edited) The govt commission starts checking the rocket manufacturer. (As always, "emergency" = "failed"). https://translate.google.com.tr/translate?sl=ru&tl=en&js=y&prev=_t&hl=ru&ie=UTF-8&u=https://www.interfax.ru/russia/633349&edit-text= (Oops, multininja'd) 4 hours ago, Teilnehmer said: Isn’t it possible to refuel the H₂O₂ tanks of the Soyuz in orbit? Unlikely, as at least in the classic Soyuzes the peroxide was stored in a barrel inside the capsule behind the spacemens heads. But they probably would know the actual amount of peroxide at the moment. (At least there should be a manometer to check if it's enough the detonating gas inside) So, I guess that the actual state of things will prevail over the guarantee. Also the capsule can be stabilized by air drag, the RCS is required to keep the descent comfortable, at 4 g instead of 8. 3 hours ago, Ho Lam Kerman said: Can't we manufacture any H2O2 on the station? Yes, if bring a H2O2 plant there. (oops, wrong media about Soyuz, disregard that pic) Edited October 15, 2018 by kerbiloid Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reactordrone Posted October 15, 2018 Share Posted October 15, 2018 13 hours ago, AVaughan said: @Ho Lam Kerman Regarding the ballistic descent being survivable, I think it will only be survivable if the descent module renters heat shield first. Without KSP's magical reaction wheels that requires the descent module's reaction control system. Which is fueled by the hydrogen peroxide. The capsules are self righting so they will descend with the heat shield pointing in the right direction. The loss of RCS means they just won't be able to fly the ship to get steering and lift. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xd the great Posted October 16, 2018 Share Posted October 16, 2018 4 hours ago, Reactordrone said: The capsules are self righting so they will descend with the heat shield pointing in the right direction. The loss of RCS means they just won't be able to fly the ship to get steering and lift. So an extended stay is possible, just not fun. No H2O2 needed. What about other consumables? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
razark Posted October 16, 2018 Share Posted October 16, 2018 1 hour ago, Xd the great said: No H2O2 needed. Is it needed for undocking and deorbiting, though? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ultimate Steve Posted October 16, 2018 Share Posted October 16, 2018 10 minutes ago, razark said: Is it needed for undocking and deorbiting, though? No, that's the service module's fuel, which I'm not sure of, but is probably some form of Hydrazine. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YNM Posted October 16, 2018 Share Posted October 16, 2018 5 hours ago, Reactordrone said: The capsules are self righting so they will descend with the heat shield pointing in the right direction. If they were already pointed in the right direction. If you reenter parachute-end first it'll still be a disaster. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
razark Posted October 16, 2018 Share Posted October 16, 2018 15 minutes ago, Ultimate Steve said: No, that's the service module's fuel, which I'm not sure of, but is probably some form of Hydrazine. Ah. I'm not up on Soyuz technology. I figured the same (or at least the same type) thrusters would be used for attitude control prior to and during re-entry. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MaverickSawyer Posted October 16, 2018 Share Posted October 16, 2018 1 hour ago, YNM said: If they were already pointed in the right direction. If you reenter parachute-end first it'll still be a disaster. Parachute's on the side, though, right? Damn, of all the times to have skipped taking a picture of that Soyuz DM at the Museum of Flight... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YNM Posted October 16, 2018 Share Posted October 16, 2018 54 minutes ago, MaverickSawyer said: Parachute's on the side, though, right? A little bit, not much more than other space capsules. But yeah, it's only if you were pointed correctly you'll be able to let it guide itself. Otherwise, I think no one likes the crew to return already blendered. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CatastrophicFailure Posted October 16, 2018 Share Posted October 16, 2018 27 minutes ago, YNM said: A little bit, not much more than other space capsules. But yeah, it's only if you were pointed correctly you'll be able to let it guide itself. Otherwise, I think no one likes the crew to return already blendered. The capsule is designed to be aerodynamically stable on reentry, even if it’s pointing the wrong way at first, it will swing around heat-shield first without any control at all. IIRC one or two of the early flights ended up tumbling until this straightened them out. Remember, that heat doesn’t kick on like a switch, and if you’ve used any of the new spherical capsules in KSP, you know they always tumble at first. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reactordrone Posted October 16, 2018 Share Posted October 16, 2018 Not to mention that the entire surface of the vehicle has thermal protection, the bottom's just thicker. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kerbiloid Posted October 16, 2018 Share Posted October 16, 2018 The nearest Soyuz (rocket) may be launched 2018.11.03 from Plesetsk with a Frigate upper stage (so, unmanned, and Soyuz 2.1b, not Soyuz FG) https://translate.google.com.tr/translate?sl=ru&tl=en&js=y&prev=_t&hl=ru&ie=UTF-8&u=https://www.interfax.ru/russia/633501&edit-text= Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YNM Posted October 16, 2018 Share Posted October 16, 2018 6 hours ago, CatastrophicFailure said: The capsule is designed to be aerodynamically stable on reentry, even if it’s pointing the wrong way at first, it will swing around heat-shield first without any control at all. IIRC one or two of the early flights ended up tumbling until this straightened them out. Did they have people in them at the time ? Were they unscathed or not ? What would NASA goes to say to RKA ? We're not taking balls here. You may well be with the methods of rescue etc. but I'd say that the least balls option is to leave the station for a short period of time, if they can't make MS-11 successfuly or in-time. 5 hours ago, kerbiloid said: Soyuz 2.1b Didn't it had more problems, or has it been fixed ? The problematic Progress spacecrafts were launched by them right ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kerbiloid Posted October 16, 2018 Share Posted October 16, 2018 Meanwhile they plan to launch 10 Protons in 2019. https://translate.google.com.tr/translate?sl=ru&tl=en&js=y&prev=_t&hl=ru&ie=UTF-8&u=https://www.interfax.ru/russia/633587&edit-text= Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xd the great Posted October 16, 2018 Share Posted October 16, 2018 The russian space agency is known for pushing boundaries... Salyut 7 rescue mission was one hell of a move. Time for an ISS rescue mission. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kerbiloid Posted October 16, 2018 Share Posted October 16, 2018 Just now, Xd the great said: Salyut 7 rescue mission was one hell of a move. Time for an ISS rescue mission. It will require a lot of rags to gather the water. ISS is much bigger. Also there would be a perforator in addition to the sledgehammer from the movie never used irl. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tater Posted October 16, 2018 Author Share Posted October 16, 2018 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sh1pman Posted October 16, 2018 Share Posted October 16, 2018 1 hour ago, kerbiloid said: Meanwhile they plan to launch 10 Protons in 2019. One Angara as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NSEP Posted October 16, 2018 Share Posted October 16, 2018 Phew. 29 minutes ago, tater said: Sometimes disasters can make friends. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kerbiloid Posted October 16, 2018 Share Posted October 16, 2018 No need to train one more. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CatastrophicFailure Posted October 16, 2018 Share Posted October 16, 2018 3 hours ago, YNM said: Did they have people in them at the time ? Were they unscathed or not ? What would NASA goes to say to RKA ? It was the first couple of Vostoks, apparently, but similar concept. 3 hours ago, YNM said: We're not taking balls here. You may well be with the methods of rescue etc. but I'd say that the least balls option is to leave the station for a short period of time, if they can't make MS-11 successfuly or in-time. Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying such a thing should intentionally be done, but it is designed to do so. There have been some... amusing ideas kicked around here, but during all this the Station has never been close to an emergency situation that would require anything so extreme. 1 hour ago, tater said: At least they didn't have to switch off the recorders cuz they were cussing too much. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kerbiloid Posted October 16, 2018 Share Posted October 16, 2018 (edited) Btw thanks to this flight SU/RU has surpassed US in suborbital flights in 2 nominations. Now 1) both have 2 suborbital flights: 2 Mercuries vs 2 Soyuzes 2) both have 3 suborbital people: 2 in Mercuries + 1 in Soyuz vs 2+1 in Soyuzes but 1) SU/RU launched twice more people into suborbit (1+1 vs 2+2) 2) SU/RU did it with 2-seat ships Edited October 16, 2018 by kerbiloid Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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