Nefrums Posted October 11, 2018 Share Posted October 11, 2018 The second stage is the center booster right? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kerbiloid Posted October 11, 2018 Share Posted October 11, 2018 (edited) Yes. 10 minutes ago, Reactordrone said: LES was gone so they just had to separate from the rest of the rocket rather than blast free. Unless LES wasn't required as there was neither explosion nor booster acceleration. Spoiler Launch abort test... Passed. Edited October 11, 2018 by kerbiloid Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nefrums Posted October 11, 2018 Share Posted October 11, 2018 (edited) 17 minutes ago, kerbiloid said: Yes. Unless LES wasn't required as there was neither explosion nor booster acceleration. Reveal hidden contents Launch abort test... Passed. It said that the second stage engine did a emergency shutdown. So the rocket must have been in free fall during the separation. Thou I assume that a fully fulled center core that is on the same ballistic tragectory as the capsule can pose some danger to the crew. But the parachutes should make the capsule land some distance from the inferno where the booster lands. EDIT: With fully fulled center core I mean with whatever fuel is left after side booster separation... Edited October 11, 2018 by Nefrums Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kerbiloid Posted October 11, 2018 Share Posted October 11, 2018 (edited) 6 minutes ago, Nefrums said: Thou I assume that a fully fulled center core that is on the same ballistic tragectory as the capsule can pose some danger to the crew. Normally Soyuz's LES is to be jettisonned at T+160, while the 2nd stage works till T+270. Probably the 2nd stage engines are considered shutdownable at any moment, as unlikely the 3rd stage engine makes greater T/W than the 2nd stage near the end of fuel. Edited October 11, 2018 by kerbiloid Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nightfury Posted October 11, 2018 Share Posted October 11, 2018 45 minutes ago, rodion_herrera said: In the last few seconds of the video, is the second stage (the middle booster) tipping to the left? Does not look good (play at 0.25x speed) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rodion_herrera Posted October 11, 2018 Share Posted October 11, 2018 1 minute ago, Nightfury said: In the last few seconds of the video, is the second stage (the middle booster) tipping to the left? Does not look good (play at 0.25x speed) Appearance of tipping to the left but it could just be some nozzles failing to ignite properly or fizzling out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kerbiloid Posted October 11, 2018 Share Posted October 11, 2018 (edited) Soyuz. Spoiler Stage 1: t = 118 s Stage 2: t = 286 s Mempty = 6 t Mfuel = 94 t. F = 99 tf Stage 3: t = 240 s Mempty = 3 t Mfuel = 23 t. F = 30 tf Soyuz: M = 6 t. F = 0.3 tf LES and shroud: M = 2 t Separation at T+160. *** After Stage 1 separation. Stage 2 still has 94 * (286-118)/286 ~= 55 t of fuel. Stage 2 T/W = 99 / (6 + 55 + 3 + 23 + 6 + 2) = 1.04 LES has much greater T/W. *** After LES and shroud separation. Stage 2 still has 94 * (286-160)/286 ~= 41 t of fuel. Stage 2 T/W = 99 / (6 + 41 + 3 + 23 + 6) = 1.25 Stage 3 T/W = 30 / (3 + 23 + 6) = 0.94 *** Ship T/W = 0.3 / 6 = 0.05 So, they definitely consider Stage 2 and Stage 3 shutdownable at any moment. Also S.2 has the fuel tank from below. Spoiler Or treat the 41/3.5 = 12 t of kerosene (after LES separation) far away from the ship as looking less dangerous than something bigger. Edited October 11, 2018 by kerbiloid Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nefrums Posted October 11, 2018 Share Posted October 11, 2018 If one of the second stage engines got damaged during irst stage separation, that could cause the tilting and the shutdown of remaining second stage engines. I assume that soyuz does not have engine out capability. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NSEP Posted October 11, 2018 Share Posted October 11, 2018 Ok, who is drilling holes in the Soyuz again??? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Green Baron Posted October 11, 2018 Share Posted October 11, 2018 I read that Russia has decided to suspend human spaceflight. As of now, other possibilities will not be available before the second half of the next year. I am speculating that could be bad news for the ISS if it is left un-crewed .... ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kerbiloid Posted October 11, 2018 Share Posted October 11, 2018 1 minute ago, NSEP said: Ok, who is drilling holes in the Soyuz again??? The third seat was empty... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reactordrone Posted October 11, 2018 Share Posted October 11, 2018 24 minutes ago, Nefrums said: If one of the second stage engines got damaged during irst stage separation, that could cause the tilting and the shutdown of remaining second stage engines. I assume that soyuz does not have engine out capability. The RD-108 has four chambers but it's only one engine (not counting the verniers). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kerbiloid Posted October 11, 2018 Share Posted October 11, 2018 (edited) 12 minutes ago, Green Baron said: As of now, other possibilities will not be available before the second half of the next year. 1st cosmonaut from Emirates is going to fly 2019.04.05. Maybe he now gains several more months for training. Upd. They say, it will take ~1.5 months to make the next Soyuz ready. Edited October 11, 2018 by kerbiloid Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NSEP Posted October 11, 2018 Share Posted October 11, 2018 16 minutes ago, Green Baron said: I read that Russia has decided to suspend human spaceflight. As of now, other possibilities will not be available before the second half of the next year. I am speculating that could be bad news for the ISS if it is left un-crewed .... ? Well, that does mean its going to be the first (and hopefully last) period time in my life space is left uninhabited. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ho Lam Kerman Posted October 11, 2018 Share Posted October 11, 2018 21 minutes ago, Green Baron said: I read that Russia has decided to suspend human spaceflight. As of now, other possibilities will not be available before the second half of the next year. I am speculating that could be bad news for the ISS if it is left un-crewed .... ? Can you provide sources? I'd like to verify. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kerbiloid Posted October 11, 2018 Share Posted October 11, 2018 ISS has snacks for 6 months. https://translate.google.com.tr/translate?sl=ru&tl=en&js=y&prev=_t&hl=ru&ie=UTF-8&u=https://www.interfax.ru/russia/632926&edit-text= Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YNM Posted October 11, 2018 Share Posted October 11, 2018 Maybe it's about time the Eagle learns to fly again... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Green Baron Posted October 11, 2018 Share Posted October 11, 2018 6 minutes ago, Ho Lam Kerman said: Can you provide sources? I'd like to verify. For Russia to suspend human space flight it was in a German news ticker. For Boeing's Starliner and SpaceX Crew Dragon 2 (are there others ?) this forum and NASA's timeline. For ISS to stay in orbit, well, that was a seculative question i hoped to get answered. Can it stay in orbit un-crewed, being refuelled ? Or can docked automatic vehicles with own engines do the job ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MinimumSky5 Posted October 11, 2018 Share Posted October 11, 2018 (edited) @kerbiloid it's not just how much supplies they have, microgravity is tough on humans and the crew need to rest at some point. I'd much rather have the crew come back on schedule, and leave the ISS unmanned for a few months, than conduct an unplanned experiment in human endurance. @Green Baron if that's an issue, they can reboost now to prolong the stations longevity, but it probably can be done remotely. Edited October 11, 2018 by MinimumSky5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kerbiloid Posted October 11, 2018 Share Posted October 11, 2018 (edited) 4 minutes ago, MinimumSky5 said: @kerbiloid it's not just how much supplies they have, microgravity is tough on humans and the crew need to rest at some point. I'd much rather have the crew come back on schedule, and leave the ISS unmanned for a few months, than conduct an unplanned experiment in human endurance. The Academy of Cosmonautics member A. Ionin has told today on the radio that the next Soyuz will be prepared in ~1.5 months, and the flights will continue soon. P.S. The planned October Progress may be postponed as using the same rocket. Edited October 11, 2018 by kerbiloid Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MinimumSky5 Posted October 11, 2018 Share Posted October 11, 2018 That seems highly premature given that we don't know why this one failed. If they've worked out why the Soyuz failed, great, but if not, let's not risk people lives. I mean, we've just had a great abort test for Soyuz, but let's take this slowly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Green Baron Posted October 11, 2018 Share Posted October 11, 2018 (edited) I see. The source i had (n-tv.de) cited ria.ru for the decision to suspend. But i cannot read Russian to check that, i can't even make out how to switch languages :-/ We'll probably know more soon(tm). @kerbiloid keeps us informed i hope :-) Edited October 11, 2018 by Green Baron Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kerbiloid Posted October 11, 2018 Share Posted October 11, 2018 (edited) I'll try my best. Spoiler I bet 3 "likes"/"reacts" on asymmetrical 1st stage separation, so the 2nd stage has shut down engines on extreme values of angular accelerations. I guess, one of four was attached not perfectly. Edited October 11, 2018 by kerbiloid Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tater Posted October 11, 2018 Author Share Posted October 11, 2018 Wow. Heard on my clock radio alarm (set to news) and came to check the internet instead of taking a shower. This is, um, sub-optimal for ISS. What's the lifetime of the Soyuz docked right now? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sh1pman Posted October 11, 2018 Share Posted October 11, 2018 (edited) 5 minutes ago, tater said: What's the lifetime of the Soyuz docked right now? 3 months. Actually, no. MS-09 docked on June 6. So it's 4 months now. Edited October 11, 2018 by sh1pman Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.