Chinese Space Program (CNSA) & Ch. commercial launch and discussion

[steve9728]

29 minutes ago, JoeSchmuckatelli said:

Welcome to the 'slow news week' phenomenon 

Perhaps this is one of the reasons for the importance of 5g network construction

[JoeSchmuckatelli]

Eye roll. 

(grin) 

[SunlitZelkova]

*First purpose built maritime satellite launch platform. Previously modified cargo ships have been used.

Still image of the launcher based on the DF-31 mentioned by @steve9728. Just ignore what is presumably a (training version of the?) DF-31 TEL in front of it .

[steve9728]

On 11/2/2021 at 9:32 PM, SunlitZelkova said:

*First purpose built maritime satellite launch platform. Previously modified cargo ships have been used.

Still image of the launcher based on the DF-31 mentioned by @steve9728. Just ignore what is presumably a (training version of the?) DF-31 TEL in front of it .

I think the reason why CNSA want to built a ship is they think the platform existing offshore launch platforms look a bit shabby? *When you have the money and the ability to build anything*

 To be honest, in terms of momentum, cold launching a satellite from the sea seems a bit violent even for a native Chinese like me.

*Dnper like this*

As to why the Dongfeng 31 platform was used, the official story given was that in the 1990s a spy and a traitor sold seven core data items of the DF-31 missile to Taiwan Province of China, who in turn passed them on to the US (this problem was solved by two rounds of 5.8mm in the real physical sense). In keeping with the traditional Chinese concept of "if you're already do something, don't waste it", the DF-31 was changed to look like the one in the picture. But really, if I were the management of CNSA, I would at least paint the car white to politely hide its violent attributes.

Edited November 4, 2021 by steve9728

[steve9728]

On 11/2/2021 at 9:32 PM, SunlitZelkova said:

(training version of the?)

Congratulation, you found the "don't ask quesion" part.  Personally, I think it should either be a missile car factory built specifically for the CNSA, or maybe the CNSA bought one from PLA's leftover car. And I prefer the latter one.

 Of course there are also have some voices saying it's the secondment of PLA vehicles for a "part-time job" At least the official sources I know of don't explain this too much, perhaps because they think "huh? Is that a problem?"

Edited November 4, 2021 by steve9728

[SunlitZelkova]

4 hours ago, steve9728 said:

As to why the Dongfeng 31 platform was used, the official story given was that in the 1990s a spy and a traitor sold seven core data items of the DF-31 missile to Taiwan Province of China, who in turn passed them on to the US (this problem was solved by two rounds of 5.8mm in the real physical sense). In keeping with the traditional Chinese concept of "if you're already do something, don't waste it", the DF-31 was changed to look like the one in the picture. But really, if I were the management of CNSA, I would at least paint the car white to politely hide its violent attributes.

I’ve seen some claim it is intended to be used to rapidly launch replacement recon satellites in the event of a war, and using a converted solid fuel ICBM is about as rapid reaction as rockets get.

[SOXBLOX]

5 hours ago, steve9728 said:

Taiwan Province of China

Huh. Never heard it called that before. We usually call it Taiwan or Republic of China in the USA. Is yours more of a literal translation? I'm curious...

Edited November 4, 2021 by SOXBLOX
"it" != "is"

[Codraroll]

3 hours ago, SOXBLOX said:

Huh. Never heard it called that before. We usually call it Taiwan or Republic of China in the USA. Is yours more of a literal translation? I'm curious...

It's, uh, politics. 

[steve9728]

5 hours ago, SOXBLOX said:

Huh. Never heard it called that before. We usually call it Taiwan or Republic of China in the USA. Is yours more of a literal translation? I'm curious...

Well, don’t think only western world have political correct.  

[steve9728]

6 hours ago, SunlitZelkova said:

I’ve seen some claim it is intended to be used to rapidly launch replacement recon satellites in the event of a war, and using a converted solid fuel ICBM is about as rapid reaction as rockets get.

In fact, the earliest reports from media with  official background did say that. 

(Who can say no to solid fuel?)

[JoeSchmuckatelli]

1 hour ago, steve9728 said:

Well, don’t think only western world have political correct.  

Well put. 

Although the John Cena thing is embarrassing by Western standards. 

 

Seeing as this is a friendly space game forum we should assume that Chinese nationals are required to call Taiwan something that it is not,* because doing otherwise can get them in trouble and have to make a similar mea culpa. 

*even if they agree, it's still a requirement, so not worth debating here 

Edited November 4, 2021 by JoeSchmuckatelli

[steve9728]

9 hours ago, steve9728 said:

Who can say no to solid fuel?

Speaking of solid fuel, insert a news from last week: CNSC's 3.5m/500t thrust class solid fuel engine test run successfully in Xi'an.

 

And if I understand the official statement correctly, it will be the booster for the CZ-6A rocket. Or maybe something bigger because 500t thrust is really something.

https://zhuanlan.zhihu.com/p/423218643

http://english.www.gov.cn/news/topnews/202110/20/content_WS616f6f83c6d0df57f98e38a7.html

(As a solid fuel fan, I think I'm high now)

Edited November 4, 2021 by steve9728

[TheFlyingKerman]

On 11/4/2021 at 8:03 AM, steve9728 said:

Congratulation, you found the "don't ask quesion" part.  Personally, I think it should either be a missile car factory built specifically for the CNSA, or maybe the CNSA bought one from PLA's leftover car. And I prefer the latter one.

 Of course there are also have some voices saying it's the secondment of PLA vehicles for a "part-time job" At least the official sources I know of don't explain this too much, perhaps because they think "huh? Is that a problem?"

I am not sure what is the difference between CNSA and PLA? I think the former is just a front while the later does all the real job?

[DDE]

3 hours ago, TheFlyingKerman said:

I am not sure what is the difference between CNSA and PLA? I think the former is just a front while the later does all the real job?

An ignorant hypothesis: CNSA is responsible for running the industry and the space operations, PLA RF missileers provide launch site services similar to Russia's TsENKI (and, for years, the elements if the Soace Troops at Baikonur), and PLA SSF operates the military spacecraft.

[steve9728]

On 11/5/2021 at 7:09 AM, TheFlyingKerman said:

I am not sure what is the difference between CNSA and PLA? I think the former is just a front while the later does all the real job?

Never forget the missile tech is always connected to the rocket tech. It's same that all over the world.

CNSA (国家航天局): China National Space Adminstration. As the manager, coordinating the orderly development of the domestic aerospace industry. Which can decide paint the missile viecle they use white or not .

CASIC(中国航天科工集团): China Aerospace Science & Industry Corporation. The products are relatively small, but the production batches are large, the main products are tactical missiles, cruise missiles, anti-ship missiles, anti-aircraft and anti-missile missiles and other products. The guy who responsible for light somebody up.

CNSC(中国航天科技集团): China Aerospace Science & Technology Corporation. Larger products produced, but smaller batches. The main products are the commonly seen launch vehicles, satellites, probes of all kinds, manned spacecraft and medium and long-range intercontinental ballistic missiles. The guy who responsible for send somebody in to the orbit.

PLA: They are responsible for guarding launch sites, research facilities and recruiting astronauts from the PLAAF, also responsible for searh & rescue mission for astronauts returning to Earth. And most important part, use the missile.

PLARF: What? Don't look at me! I'm the customer!

 

Edited November 7, 2021 by steve9728

[steve9728]

 

They also have a lot of different units represented by various numbers. To be honest I can't tell the difference: there are just too many. Here are the main research and production consortia that I found on the Chinese Internet

1. The First Institute of Aerospace (China Academy of Launch Vehicle Technology)
2. The Fourth Academy of Spaceflight (Academy of Space Power Technology) for the development and production of space solid fuel engines for experiments
3. The Fifth Academy of Space Technology (China Academy of Space Technology) for the development and production of satellites, spacecraft, space stations, lunar exploration vehicles and other spacecraft
4. Sixth Institute of Aerospace (Institute of Aerospace Propulsion Technology) for aerospace liquid-fuel engine development and production experiments
5.  Seventh Institute of Aerospace (Sichuan Institute of Aerospace Technology) missile development and production assembly
6. The Eighth Institute of Aerospace (Shanghai Academy of Space Technology) for research on tactical missiles, launch vehicles, human spaceflight, deep space exploration and other space technologies
7. The Ninth Academy of Astronautics (Institute of Spaceflight Electronics Technology/Aerospace Times Electronics Corporation) for inertial navigation, telemetry and remote control, aerospace electronics, and several other specialized institutions
8. The Tenth Academy of Astronautics (Institute of Aerospace Navigation Technology)
9. The 11th Academy of Astronautics (China Academy of Aerospace Aerodynamic Technology)
10. The 12th Academy of Aerospace (China Academy of Aerospace Systems Science and Engineering)

The second and third insitute I can't figure what they focus on. Both of them belong to CASIC. Instead of the above belongs to CNSC. I think it's the "don't ask questions" part because it involves the military.

https://www.zhihu.com/question/21625027

(No need to worry about my personal safety, all that can be found by me is open source information and I am not in China)

Edited November 7, 2021 by steve9728

[steve9728]

I heard an interesting story from a Chinese talk show about the need to keep the rocket launch site clear of radio sources before the launch. Every time it was cleaned up but after a while after each launch there were unknown radio sources again. Once, it was even discovered that some one had disguised their equipment as bricks from the old Great Wall and had disguised their radio antennae as old wires wrapped around trees. The staff went back and forth looking for it but could not find it, and then found this wire. After pulling it down, they found a change in the signal source and followed the wire all the way to find this "brick" tucked into the wall of the old Great Wall

Edited November 5, 2021 by steve9728

[DDE]

19 minutes ago, steve9728 said:

I heard an interesting story from a Chinese talk show about the need to keep the rocket launch site clear of radio sources before the launch. Every time it was cleaned up but after a while after each launch there were unknown radio sources again. Once, it was even discovered that some one had disguised their equipment as bricks from the old Great Wall and had disguised their radio antennae as old wires wrapped around trees. The staff went back and forth looking for it but could not find it, and then found this wire. After pulling it down, they found a change in the signal source and followed the wire all the way to find this "brick" tucked into the wall of the old Great Wall

Sounds similar to stories about a "tree stump" next to the bomber base in Engels... or not Engels.

https://www.spymuseum.org/exhibition-experiences/about-the-collection/collection-highlights/tree-stump-listening-device/

[steve9728]

News: Shenzhou 13 astronaut crew's first spacewalk mission will be opportunistically carried out in the near future. It doesn't say what the mission will be, but there should be live internet and TV coverage.

http://finance.people.com.cn/n1/2021/1105/c1004-32274837.html

(Near future for CNSA = no more than 5 days)

 

Edited November 5, 2021 by steve9728

[steve9728]

News from fews second ago: China successfully lauched the Yaogan (Remote Sensing) 35 A,B,C satellites into the orbit by CZ-2D rocket at Xichang Satellite Launch Centre.

http://www.news.cn/politics/2021-11/06/c_1128037576.htm

CZ-4A - third stage = CZ-2D

Although I really like the "Proton" rockets, but still, I hope that everyone, including China, will phase out N2O4/UDMH fuel-powered rockets as soon as possible

Edited November 7, 2021 by steve9728

[DDE]

5 hours ago, steve9728 said:

Although I really like the "Proton" rockets, but still, I hope that everyone, including China, will phase out N2O4/UDMH fuel-powered rockets as soon as possible

The Sarmat will remain in commission until the mid-century and already features provisions for SLV conversion, so, probably not.

[steve9728]

News: Zhai Zhigang and Wang Yaping, dressed in China's new generation of "Feitian" (flying in the sky,飞天) EVA suits, make a continuous exit from the node module of the space station. 

After the installation of the foot restraint and the extra-vehicular workstation on the arm, the two crew members will work with each other to install the arm's suspension and adapters (this is for the small arm that will be carried through the new experimental module in a few months), test typical extra-vehicular manoeuvres and validate the extra-vehicular mutual aid rescue with the support of the arm.

Zhai Zhigang was the first Chinese astronaut to complete an EVA mission 13 years ago. And Wang Yaping was the first female astronaut to complete an EVA mission from China.

Fun things: 13 years ago Zhai Zhigang's first words when he left the airlock were: I'm 01, I'm out of the capsule, and I feeling good! (我是01，我已出舱，感觉良好！) 13 years later, he repeated it again. Then Wang Yaping, who is still in the airlock/node module: I'm 02, I‘ll out later and I feeling good! (我是02，我一会儿出舱，感觉良好！) Core module says: I'm 03, I will out next, and I feeling good! (我是03，我下次出舱，感觉良好！) 

I think Wang Yaping's favourite phrase is "Don't rush, don't rush!". After arriving at the station, Zhai Zhigang: "Well, I think it's done, let's report to the ground, shall we?" , Wang Yaping: "Don't rush! Don't rush!" As they ready to open the core module hatch, she also repeats, "Don't rush! Don't rush!"

Cartherine Coleman: When you look out the window, you see the stars and the Earth. Billions of women are looking out the window with you, including me. 

https://www.globaltimes.cn/page/202111/1238342.shtml

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6WO0JjcZPyg

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8dEbQWtPfPg

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WYwofAqALnQ

http://www.news.cn/2021-11/07/c_1128041048.htm

https://china.huanqiu.com/article/45UVsEEkcIZ

 

Edited November 8, 2021 by steve9728

[wumpus]

On 11/6/2021 at 12:24 AM, steve9728 said:

News from fews second ago: China successfully lauched the Yaogan (Remote Sensing) 35 A,B,C satellites into the orbit by CZ-2D rocket at Xichang Satellite Launch Centre.

http://www.news.cn/politics/2021-11/06/c_1128037576.htm

CZ-4A - third stage = CZ-2D

Although I really like the "Proton" rockets, but still, I hope that everyone, including China, will phase out N2O4/UDMH fuel-powered rockets as soon as possible

I only complain about hypergolics in booster (first and such) stages.  There are plenty of reasons to use them for later stages, satellite position control, and RCS devices (they are nearly ideal for RCS, especially uncrewed vehicles not coming back to Earth).  Remember, the poison is in the dose: and the amount of propellant decreases exponentially the further up the stages stack you go.

[steve9728]

1 hour ago, wumpus said:

I only complain about hypergolics in booster (first and such) stages.  There are plenty of reasons to use them for later stages, satellite position control, and RCS devices (they are nearly ideal for RCS, especially uncrewed vehicles not coming back to Earth).  Remember, the poison is in the dose: and the amount of propellant decreases exponentially the further up the stages stack you go.

Same, I have no problem on what RCS use. Only for the poison rocket itself. 

I will always love hydrongen-oxygen engines + solid fuel engines!

[DDE]

18 hours ago, steve9728 said:

solid fuel engines

Ah, yes, you've traded a propellamt that's toxic in accidental spills to the one where the exgaust is pretty much vaporized glue.

18 hours ago, steve9728 said:

Same, I have no problem on what RCS use.

I find hypergolics and especially cold gas distastefully low-tech on larger spacecraft when kerolox RCS is an option.