Chinese Space Program (CNSA) & Ch. commercial launch and discussion

[kerbiloid]

12 minutes ago, DDE said:

to the one where the exgaust is pretty much vaporized glue.

Gluonic engine.

[steve9728]

8 hours ago, DDE said:

Ah, yes, you've traded a propellamt that's toxic in accidental spills to the one where the exgaust is pretty much vaporized glue.

I find hypergolics and especially cold gas distastefully low-tech on larger spacecraft when kerolox RCS is an option.

I had previously read an article by a CNSC engineer who manually trimmed the burr on a solid fuel pillar, "A little static electricity is enough to blow the whole plant sky high", said by the article.

[SunlitZelkova]

https://blogs.esa.int/mex/2021/10/27/mars-express-keeps-an-ear-out-for-chinese-rover/

Missed this. Zhurong will send a blind signal out and Mars Express will try to pick it up. First test was yesterday, but no news so far. Four more attempts planned.

Considering all of the news recently about space warfare, it is nice to see news about tangible international cooperation too.

https://spacenews.com/china-is-planning-a-complex-mars-sample-return-mission/

Nice wrap up about what is known about Tianwen-2, China's MSR mission that will occur in the exact same timeframe (same launch windows too and fro) as the NASA-ESA one.

[steve9728]

1 hour ago, SunlitZelkova said:

https://blogs.esa.int/mex/2021/10/27/mars-express-keeps-an-ear-out-for-chinese-rover/

Missed this. Zhurong will send a blind signal out and Mars Express will try to pick it up. First test was yesterday, but no news so far. Four more attempts planned.

Considering all of the news recently about space warfare, it is nice to see news about tangible international cooperation too.

https://spacenews.com/china-is-planning-a-complex-mars-sample-return-mission/

Nice wrap up about what is known about Tianwen-2, China's MSR mission that will occur in the exact same timeframe (same launch windows too and fro) as the NASA-ESA one.

It looks like CNSA will be really busy from next year: launch two more new module to the space station, and the multiple cargo and 4 manned spacecraft associated with it (they've already got the crew selected); the Chang'e 6, 7 and 8 which will go to the moon's south pole and it also will be cooperated with ESA (or Roscosmos maybe?); the space telescope to be launched the year after next to operate in co-orbit with the space station; and plenty of "daily launch mission" for the high resolution mapping satellities, communication satellites and other "don't ask question" satellites that no one would know.

And Mars mission? I can't quite imagine how busy they are anymore.

Personally I really looking forward CNSA can cooperate with ESA and send Samantha Cristoforetti into the Tianhe space station: she will be the first person that can evaluate the spaceship from Russia, US and China

Watched a video simulate the Chang'e 7 by KSP, Chang'e 7 is indeed a collaboration with Roscosmos and has a really complex payload

https://www.bilibili.com/video/BV1rK411N7RS

https://www.bilibili.com/read/cv7378914?spm_id_from=333.788.b_636f6d6d656e74.4

Edited November 9, 2021 by steve9728

[JoeSchmuckatelli]

41 minutes ago, steve9728 said:

first person that can evaluate the spaceship from

The simple fact that the Chinese (astronaut?  cosmonaut?) crew is alive and well tells us all we need to know. 

Having someone else come out to say 'it's nice' is just icing. 

[steve9728]

27 minutes ago, JoeSchmuckatelli said:

The simple fact that the Chinese (astronaut?  cosmonaut?) crew is alive and well tells us all we need to know. 

Having someone else come out to say 'it's nice' is just icing. 

Well my thought is not "saying China's something good", just a very simple desire to have someone who could have such a "little achievement" like game. Pure and simple. 

And the consensus with CNSA and ESA I think will be "don't waste the opportunity on this" if this can really come true. And both Mengtian and Wentian modules are already confirmed to carry ESA's collaborative experimental payload, so imagine what kind of collaborative experiments they will have.

The English media called Chinese astronaut as "taikonaut". But actually we don't call them "spaceman" if the"taikonaut" translate directly to Chinese (at least most of the Chinese space fan I've seen don't do that). We also called them "astronauts" or "hang tian yuan (航天员)". And personally, I don't really totally understand why called the Chinese astronauts as "taikonaut" either.

Edited November 9, 2021 by steve9728

[JoeSchmuckatelli]

9 hours ago, steve9728 said:

collaborative experimental payload

Collaboration is indeed a good thing. 

 

9 hours ago, steve9728 said:

taikonaut

Thanks - I'd heard the word wasn't used by Chinese, but did not know what was preferred. Do y'all use taikonaut regularly when engaging with others in English or if several Chinese folks were in the same English conversation would 

 

9 hours ago, steve9728 said:

hang tian yuan

be the phrase used more often? 

[Codraroll]

12 hours ago, steve9728 said:

The English media called Chinese astronaut as "taikonaut". But actually we don't call them "spaceman" if the"taikonaut" translate directly to Chinese (at least most of the Chinese space fan I've seen don't do that). We also called them "astronauts" or "hang tian yuan (航天员)". And personally, I don't really totally understand why called the Chinese astronauts as "taikonaut" either.

It stems from the competition between the US and Soviet space programs. The US used the term "astronauts", the Soviets used "cosmonauts". Cue the media thinking that every different country/political bloc's space program ought to have their own "-nauts", and making up a term to use for the Chinese astronauts. I bet that somewhere on the Internet, somebody has painstakingly created a list of "-nauts" for a hypothetical space program for every country out there.

Edited November 9, 2021 by Codraroll

[steve9728]

3 hours ago, JoeSchmuckatelli said:

Collaboration is indeed a good thing. 

 

Thanks - I'd heard the word wasn't used by Chinese, but did not know what was preferred. Do y'all use taikonaut regularly when engaging with others in English or if several Chinese folks were in the same English conversation would 

 

be the phrase used more often? 

If guys discuss it by English I think there will be the astronauts, and if using the Chinese it will be the “hang tian yuan”, either the official or the normal people.

I think probably is from the Taiwan and Hongkong people will use “spaceman” more often to called the astronaut because I can speak both Mandarin and Cantonese. They both use Chinese characters, but the language is not quite organized in the same way.

Of course, there are probably other more extreme nationalists than myself who would use the term "taikonaut" emphatically. 

[steve9728]

Well if we need to be more specific on it I really do google it:

The Chinese term "astronaut" comes from Qian Xuesen's definition.

[航空, Hangkong, aviation]: in the atmosphere.

[航天, Hangtian, Space]: outside the atmosphere to within the solar system.

[宇航, Yuhang, Astronautics]: Outside the solar system.

Seems CNSA don’t have technology to travel outside the solar system yet, so we using the “Hang tian yuan” to call our astronauts.

Edited November 9, 2021 by steve9728

[kerbiloid]

18 minutes ago, Codraroll said:

It stems from the competition between the US and Soviet space programs. The US used the term "astronauts", the Soviets used "cosmonauts". Cue the media thinking that every different country/political bloc's space program ought to have their own "-nauts", and making up a term to use for the Chinese astronauts. I bet that somewhere on the Internet, somebody has painstakingly created a list of "-nauts" for a hypothetical space program for every country out there.

Why not just call'em all "human kerbonauts".

[steve9728]

6 minutes ago, kerbiloid said:

Why not just call'em all "human kerbonauts".

There is a Chinese song with the lyrics "Keep it simple, keep it simple in the way you talk". I think astronauts is definitely ok

[steve9728]

On 11/5/2021 at 1:29 PM, steve9728 said:

The second and third insitute I can't figure what they focus on. Both of them belong to CASIC. Instead of the above belongs to CNSC. I think it's the "don't ask questions" part because it involves the military.

Well that's the reason why I said the CASIC is the "don't ask question" part: "China Builds Missile Targets Shaped Like U.S. Aircraft Carrier, Destroyers in Remote Desert"

https://news.usni.org/2021/11/07/china-builds-missile-targets-shaped-like-u-s-aircraft-carrier-destroyers-in-remote-desert

Quote

 

Hell, I really can't imagine how crazy it is as such a big things runing at the bone dry desrt with 30 knots, and the missile from nowhere hit it at Mach seven or eight or even more. 

Sailing on the land, ha, "Cedden didden" start to play in my brain

Edited November 9, 2021 by steve9728

[steve9728]

It's really sad that BBC only report the giant aircraft carrier target we built at middle of desert, and pretend the first Chinese, or even the first Asian female astronaut finished a 6 and half hours EVA mission never happened. 

The world shouldn't be like this

[kerbiloid]

Quote

A fragment of the Chinese meteorological satellite Fengyun-1C will approach the ISS on Friday night, Roscosmos reported.

"According to preliminary information, a fragment of the Fengyun-1C spacecraft will approach the International Space Station on November 12 at about 4 am Moscow time. Trajectories are currently being calculated and the rendezvous parameters are being clarified," the state corporation said on Twitter.

https://www-interfax-ru.translate.goog/world/802173?_x_tr_sl=ru&_x_tr_tl=en&_x_tr_hl=ru&_x_tr_pto=nui

https://www.n2yo.com/satellite/?s=25730

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2007_Chinese_anti-satellite_missile_test

[steve9728]

1 hour ago, kerbiloid said:

https://www-interfax-ru.translate.goog/world/802173?_x_tr_sl=ru&_x_tr_tl=en&_x_tr_hl=ru&_x_tr_pto=nui

https://www.n2yo.com/satellite/?s=25730

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2007_Chinese_anti-satellite_missile_test

Space snooker

[DDE]

17 hours ago, steve9728 said:

Well that's the reason why I said the CASIC is the "don't ask question" part: "China Builds Missile Targets Shaped Like U.S. Aircraft Carrier, Destroyers in Remote Desert"

https://news.usni.org/2021/11/07/china-builds-missile-targets-shaped-like-u-s-aircraft-carrier-destroyers-in-remote-desert

Hell, I really can't imagine how crazy it is as such a big things runing at the bone dry desrt with 30 knots, and the missile from nowhere hit it at Mach seven or eight or even more. 

Sailing on the land, ha, "Cedden didden" start to play in my brain

Hey, it beats accidentally blocking your port off with a half-sunken target barge.

[steve9728]

1 hour ago, DDE said:

Hey, it beats accidentally blocking your port off with a half-sunken target barge.

*Mad Max like this*

[DDE]

On 11/9/2021 at 10:59 PM, steve9728 said:

It's really sad that BBC only report the giant aircraft carrier target we built at middle of desert, and pretend the first Chinese, or even the first Asian female astronaut finished a 6 and half hours EVA mission never happened. 

The world shouldn't be like this

Speaking about news, the weirdest thing happened yesterday. One of the TV channels on Moscow broadcasting is Euronews (yes, broadcasting, not satellite); it's sort of a backup since both Rossiya-24 and Izvestia both insist on showing the entire yawn-inducing government COVID teleconferences live. 

So here we are on Euronews, they're starting a segment on the Poland-Belarus situation when, bam! It's replaced by a "Chinese Panorama" flashcard. For at least half and hour, we get what feels like word-for-word translation of a CCTV broadcast. The flat, formalistic narration... the Soviet whiff was unmistakable. Yes, it included a segment on Shenzhou 13. Interestingly, they didn't focus much on gender.

And then, once this sudden intrusion was done, the Euronews segment picked at the exact spot where it was cut, as if nothing happened. I've seen them goof up editing before, but not in such a bizarre manner, and I've never seen them inject an entire segment of Chinese broadcasting.

I honestly don't know what to think of this. The timing of this "injection" certainly lends itself to a lot of political innuendo, but I really doubt the technical possibility.

Edited November 11, 2021 by DDE

[DDE]

What a strange way to draw ROTON

[JoeSchmuckatelli]

On 11/9/2021 at 2:59 PM, steve9728 said:

sad that BBC only report the giant aircraft carrier target

 

Don't take it personally.  It's pretty typical for space enthusiasts to have to search for routine space news, and something like 'just another astronaut doing a spacewalk' isn't going to make the front section, much less the front page.   OTOH - if an insular but saber rattling nation does something weird - like build 1:1 scale replica of American warships in a desert missile target range... That's going to be talked about...

...after we finish discussing some 3d tier actress's wardrobe 'malfunction'.

7 hours ago, DDE said:

Speaking about news, the weirdest thing happened yesterday. One of the TV channels on Moscow broadcasting is Euronews (yes, broadcasting, not satellite); it's sort of a backup since both Rossiya-24 and Izvestia both insist on showing the entire yawn-inducing government COVID teleconferences live. 

So here we are on Euronews, they're starting a segment on the Poland-Belarus situation when, bam! It's replaced by a "Chinese Panorama" flashcard. For at least half and hour, we get what feels like word-for-word translation of a CCTV broadcast. The flat, formalistic narration... the Soviet whiff was unmistakable. Yes, it included a segment on Shenzhou 13. Interestingly, they didn't focus much on gender.

And then, once this sudden intrusion was done, the Euronews segment picked at the exact spot where it was cut, as if nothing happened. I've seen them goof up editing before, but not in such a bizarre manner, and I've never seen them inject an entire segment of Chinese broadcasting.

I honestly don't know what to think of this. The timing of this "injection" certainly lends itself to a lot of political innuendo, but I really doubt the technical possibility.

I had a friend who I met in Munich in '94 - he was a former Soviet Artillery Officer who emigrated with his wife and kid - he said one of the weird things about being in the West after growing up in the East was TV. 

The thing that you take for granted and which is so often just background noise can be a bit jarring when not normal.  He spent a bit of time trying to get a bunch of us (an American and several Western Europeans) to understand the subtle but jangling dissonance that would occasionally strike him - usually when he was only peripherally aware of the TV. 

 

 

Edited November 11, 2021 by JoeSchmuckatelli

[steve9728]

3 hours ago, DDE said:

What a strange way to draw ROTON

Comments on related videos within China：
- Yes it must be a wind power station
- Yeah it could even be a water facility

[SunlitZelkova]

Tiangong, too, is affected by the recent Russian ASAT test.

Unfortunately for the ISS crew however, Tiangong is not co-orbited with it (the ISS), which means they can't use the Soyuz descent engines to travel to it, and use an operable Shenzhou to return to Earth...

-------------

Landed on December 14th, 2013, and has now been operable for 7 years, 10 months, and roughly 30 days (I was too lazy to take into account different time zones and what not) as of this post, which means it has broken the Apollo 12 ALSEP's record of 7 years, 10 months, and 11 days to become the longest operating piece of equipment on the Moon!

Although in all fairness, the Apollo 12 ALSEP was turned off due to budgetary reasons, and did not fail. Still impressive anyhow, especially considering it was their first (!!!) lunar lander.

Note- the rover is inactive, ceasing to operate in 2014.

[steve9728]

On 11/17/2021 at 2:54 AM, SunlitZelkova said:

Russian ASAT test.

Who make NASA care about Chinese astronaut except of Chinese themselves? Russian

 

On 11/17/2021 at 2:54 AM, SunlitZelkova said:

7 years, 10 months, and roughly 30 days

Do some google, converting to the easily calculable time zone 0 is 20:35 14th Dec. 2013, you can "add East and subtract West" from your own location, using time zone 0 as a base.

It's 7 years 10 mouths 4 days, 19 hours and 18 minutes to now, 14:50, 19th Nov. 2021 (GMT)

But yes, Chinese satellites using Chinese time zones is something that has no controversial value. Technically 5 more days to go before Apollo 12's record is broken. I have a feeling we're ahead of some news this time

On 11/17/2021 at 2:54 AM, SunlitZelkova said:

ceasing to operate in 2014

Stopped moving in 2014 due to failure of the travel mechanism, but other components are still intact and the official word given is that it stopped working on 31 July 2016. I can't understand how it make it either

Edited November 19, 2021 by steve9728

[DDE]

4 hours ago, steve9728 said:

the official word given is that it stopped working

I imagine the Chinese bureaucrats have euphemisms for many, many various degrees of "broken down".