Chinese Space Program (CNSA) & Ch. commercial launch and discussion

[kerbiloid]

I imagine this euphemism can be pronounced in a decade of various tones to indicate the actual degree of a fake-up.

[steve9728]

4 hours ago, DDE said:

I imagine the Chinese bureaucrats have euphemisms for many, many various degrees of "broken down".

I went back and re-examined it, and according to official statements, space and radio enthusiast forums within China, and discussions outside of China, the Yutu rover is probably the equivalent of an "amputated limb" after 2014, but is still "able to speak, see and write", and even supports the scientists who wrote this paper: Correlated compositional and mineralogical investigations at the Chang'e-3 landing site.

https://www.nature.com/articles/ncomms9880?origin=ppub

Made in China has only two extremes for the Chinese: too poor quality and too good quality. And I think Yutu is the too good one. Even though, the damage to the travel mechanism was actually a good thing: it exposed some design flaw that wasn't expected on the ground and gave Yutu II room for improvement. Don't forget that Yutu II, which started work on 3 January 2019, is still running on the Moon!

There is no refutation of the word "euphemism" because in the Chinese context we use the word "failure（失败）" unless the rocket exploded in the air, otherwise we use the word "loss of edge（失利）" for news such as the Long March 5's second launch  premature shutdown of the core stage one and  forcing the second stage to start prematurely, or "the US military satellite failed to successfully enter its intended orbit", or "NASA announces findings of Boeing's Starliner test flight failure" : a failure, but not a complete failure, more or less it still have a hope to be better. 

Edited November 19, 2021 by steve9728

[SunlitZelkova]

18 hours ago, steve9728 said:

Do some google, converting to the easily calculable time zone 0 is 20:35 14th Dec. 2013, you can "add East and subtract West" from your own location, using time zone 0 as a base.

It's 7 years 10 mouths 4 days, 19 hours and 18 minutes to now, 14:50, 19th Nov. 2021 (GMT)

But yes, Chinese satellites using Chinese time zones is something that has no controversial value. Technically 5 more days to go before Apollo 12's record is broken. I have a feeling we're ahead of some news this time

Now I know not to rely on Wikipedia for what I think are trivial and easy info-bits!

[steve9728]

China's largest solid-propellant lauch vehicle, Lijian-1 (力箭，power arrow) successfully completed the ground launch support system test in a joint rocket-ground exercise. 

The Lijian-1 is the "Zhongke-1 A" (ZK-1A) launch vehicle, developed by Beijing Zhongke Aerospace Exploration Technology Co. It is a four-stage solid launch vehicle, the unassisted configuration of the ZK-1A series, derived from the basic ZK-1A. The core stages are equipped with 200-ton, 100-ton, 50-ton and 10-ton solid rocket motors, respectively. The take-off weight of the rocket is 135 tons, its LEO capacity is about 2 tons, and its 700km SSO capacity is 1.33 tons, making it China's largest solid launch vehicle in terms of take-off mass.

This type of rocket is mainly used for one rocket launch multi-satellities missions combination launches of small and medium-sized spacecraft in sun-synchronous orbit and other near-Earth orbits, and is scheduled for a "one rocket, six satellities" first launch in March 2022.

500t thrust solid fuel rocket! HURRY UP!

(I was read this news few days ago but one of my assessment due dealine last week. This happened at 13th November)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tbKv-5cbWEY

Edited November 21, 2021 by steve9728

[steve9728]

CZ-4B successfully launches the third "Goafen-11" satellite at 20th November, 9:01 (UTC/GMT +8:00). This is the third launch of the Gaofen-11 series of satellites by the CZ-4B rocket and the 397th launch of the Long March series of launch vehicles.

Well that's just normal news but when I search CZ-4B rocket I find something interesting:

and

The one of the rudders that Y41 mission was recyeled from the Y38 mission. "That thing, although small, but it was the first reusable product on a rocket for a domestic launch vehicle in China, and it is an important attempt for subsequent vertical take-off and landing reusable launch vehicles.", said by SAST (Shanghai Academy of Spaceflight Technology, the Eighth Institute) , "it can active control the stage one's attitude and landing zone position of the return section, achieving a reduction in the landing zone of more than 85%."

Ha, Musk, one of your competitor was born

Edited November 21, 2021 by steve9728

[DDE]

4 hours ago, steve9728 said:

"it can active control the stage one's attitude and landing zone position of the return section, achieving a reduction in the landing zone of more than 85%."

"This is rookie numbers!"

[DDE]

Catgirls.

You forgot catgirls.

[kerbiloid]

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10228497/Pentagon-officials-baffled-Chinese-hypersonic-missile-technology-deploy-nuke.html

Quote

• Pentagon experts still baffled at how China managed to defy physics constraints

Silly 'Muricans...

Like if they haven't seen themselves.

Spoiler

 

[DDE]

4 hours ago, kerbiloid said:

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10228497/Pentagon-officials-baffled-Chinese-hypersonic-missile-technology-deploy-nuke.html

Silly 'Muricans...

Like if they haven't seen themselves.

  Hide contents

 

"Bafflement" is the usual state for the Daily Mail, as well as The Express and other tabloids.

https://www.express.co.uk/news/weird/735175/vladimir-putin-killer-octopus-organism-46-b-russian-army-secret-weapon-russia

No, I'm never living that one down.

[steve9728]

5 hours ago, kerbiloid said:

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10228497/Pentagon-officials-baffled-Chinese-hypersonic-missile-technology-deploy-nuke.html

Silly 'Muricans...

Like if they haven't seen themselves.

  Reveal hidden contents

 

Maybe I'm too nationalistic, they give me the impression that "How can you Chinese do what my world-leading American technology can't do? You must be cheating or copying or lying!"
Save it, even the North Koreans claim to have done it (although I have reservations about this given the current level of wind tunnel and materials science technology in North Korea, perhaps with the help of their "blood allies", which is us)

[steve9728]

6 hours ago, DDE said:

Catgirls.

You forgot catgirls.

One more thing I got feeling quite uncomfortable: why those rubbish press always using the picture from CZ-5/CZ-5B, or CZ-7 rockets launch missions? They are on the mission of absolute peaceful: building our space station. If they could even learn how to use this two pictures, I wouldn't say anything on it.

Hell, isn't that a lot more "violent" than the pictures they gave?

Edited November 22, 2021 by steve9728

[JoeSchmuckatelli]

1 hour ago, steve9728 said:

rubbish press always using the picture from

Will you describe what the two pics are showing?  I'm largely unfamiliar with CN stuff.

[DDE]

1 hour ago, steve9728 said:

Maybe I'm too nationalistic, they give me the impression that "How can you Chinese do what my world-leading American technology can't do? You must be cheating or copying or lying!"

No, it's hardly just you. It's a long-running ideological cliche: overestimation of the degree to which even the most off-kilter totalitarian regimes seek to restrict thought, combined with a very rosy and obsolete view of the R&D process where the results are delivered through instances of individual serendipity, not steady and methodical collective work.

Observe this memorable exchange, with an amusingly loaded question and a fairly well-informed answer: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zFCwMFWKz_o&t=6m02s

 

[JoeSchmuckatelli]

2 hours ago, steve9728 said:

How can you Chinese do what my world-leading American technology can't do? You must be cheating or copying or lying

American arrogance is nothing new: Russia (as per DDE above) is well versed in being on the receiving end.  To our chagrin, we discover we are wrong at times, and the press serving a reactionary-public likes to hype stuff for readership.  That said, China has been on an aggressive 'steal tech from everyone' campaign for a long while (tech being all IP, from seeds to space tech).  And while the campaign has been successful, the true brilliance was when Deng Xiaoping invited Western Corporations in to simply give away all their IP in exchange for limited access to Chinese markets.

I would invite you, however, to look at Western published science articles from the last 10 years.  It's very rare to find one that does not have either one of your countrymen or descendants of Chinese immigrants writing or serving as principal investigator... so really, the informed among us don't look down on Chinese people at all.  

Amusing, however, when folks in China get upset that when their government rattles a saber, someone rattles back.

[kerbiloid]

25 minutes ago, JoeSchmuckatelli said:

That said, China has been on an aggressive 'steal tech from everyone' campaign for a long while (tech being all IP, from seeds to space tech). 

And thanks to this, we have the pikchaz:

Spoiler

 

 

P.S.
I just can't get why is the Trident at 00:55 bombing Spain?
The submarine was captured by terrorists? Spain was captured by extraterrestrial invaders?

Edited November 22, 2021 by kerbiloid

[JoeSchmuckatelli]

11 minutes ago, kerbiloid said:

And thanks to this, we have the

Nothing new under the sun

U.S. Changes Its Stance On Damage by Toshiba - The New York Times (nytimes.com)

These are the games nations play with one another.  Deng Xiaoping was just 'next level'.

Edited November 22, 2021 by JoeSchmuckatelli

[kerbiloid]

_(multipost)

Edited November 22, 2021 by kerbiloid

[JoeSchmuckatelli]

8 minutes ago, kerbiloid said:

I just can't get why is the Trident at 00:55 bombing Spain?

Missed that.  Although my Russian is a bit rusty (as in never extracted from the bog) so I just skimmed it.  Thanks for the time-stamp. 

Perhaps the guy who made the video got turned down by a Spanish girl that one time?  Hoping that Russia, once adopting the tech would follow his targeting suggestion as well?

[DDE]

4 hours ago, JoeSchmuckatelli said:

American arrogance is nothing new: Russia (as per DDE above) is well versed in being on the receiving end.  To our chagrin, we discover we are wrong at times, and the press serving a reactionary-public likes to hype stuff for readership.  That said, China has been on an aggressive 'steal tech from everyone' campaign for a long while (tech being all IP, from seeds to space tech).  And while the campaign has been successful, the true brilliance was when Deng Xiaoping invited Western Corporations in to simply give away all their IP in exchange for limited access to Chinese markets.

Nor did the developing world start this. Yuri Pasholok, World of Tanks-affiliated historian, once compiled an extensive collection of... inspirations.

Spoiler

For example, in the early 1930s the US Army with its shoestring budget was struggling to operationalize the Light Tank, T1:

In Spring 1931, the Rock Island Arsenal trials a British Vickers E:

In 1932, a T1E4 shows up, followed by the T2. Any similarity is completely accidental; designs protected by US patents!

The Soviets were actually honest by comparison, paying both Vickers (T-26) and Christie (BT), and to give an idea of the sprit of the times, they even thought they could get FDR to approve the construction of Soviet battleships in the US with a $500,000 bribe (it's just too bad their contact had more familial ties to the Soviet leadership than he had contacts in the US Navy, and so he made off with the money).

Heck, I've stumbled over a US-Chinese Jaguar tank project. Textron was literally helping them come up with an upgraded T-55 clone. There was a brief 1980s honeymoon when the West just sold China the defense tech it wanted. Combine this with leakage through places like the Persian Gulf monarchies (UAE is reputed to be a bit of a Russian laundromat for sanctioned kit) and it was trivially easy for them to catch up so long as they could localize the production of underlying high-tech components, which again is easy when everyone offloads their electronics and machinebuilding onto you.

[JoeSchmuckatelli]

19 minutes ago, DDE said:

US-Chinese Jaguar tank project.

We did help the other Chinese nation (Taiwan) with some development. CM-11 Brave Tiger | Military Wiki | Fandom

But after Korea I'm not sure how much mil-tech went officially from West to East.  Perhaps just enough to balance out Sino-Russian tensions.

Also, from WOT: Type 59 Patton (Fake) (tanks-encyclopedia.com)

 

Back to Christie and his suspension: that was the old US arrogance.  He did not have 'the right connections' and so no one took him seriously.

(Also, I'm not naive enough to think the US isn't picking through RU and CN trash and data transmissions for interesting tidbits.  Should - heck pretty much anyone - come up with a good idea... what's the old saying?  I don't care what color the cat is, so long as it catches mice?)

 

Edited November 22, 2021 by JoeSchmuckatelli

[SunlitZelkova]

15 hours ago, DDE said:

Catgirls.

You forgot catgirls.

I wonder, what would this be if it was real? Assuming this aspect of the test completely rules out the HGV theory (making it a spaceplane), might something have been released by the spaceplane in flight? Either purposely or accidentally?

That said, I can't help but think that the top people at FT said, "wow, that HGV article based on spotty sources really made a lot of money. Do it again", and then with no real/realistic news to report on, the reporters had to make something up.

6 hours ago, JoeSchmuckatelli said:

Amusing, however, when folks in China get upset that when their government rattles a saber, someone rattles back.

There isn't anything particularly "saber rattling-ish" about a pure weapons test. If the HGV had splashed down 200 miles off the coast of the US, North Korea-firing-a-missile-over-Japan-style, it would be understandable, but this is nothing really more than the equivalent of the American SM-3 test against an ICBM class target, at least within the context of maintaining strategic stability.

Edited November 22, 2021 by SunlitZelkova

[JoeSchmuckatelli]

25 minutes ago, SunlitZelkova said:

the equivalent of the American SM-3 test against an ICBM class target, at least within the context

It's exactly the same thing. 

Pretty much any nation that anxious about America sees our weapons tests as a rattle.  

(We would be pretty Pollyanna-ish 'who me???' to not recognize it.  Pax Americana) 

[steve9728]

8 hours ago, JoeSchmuckatelli said:

Will you describe what the two pics are showing?  I'm largely unfamiliar with CN stuff.

The first one was KZ-1 (Kuaizhou-1, 快舟, fast boat) launching the Jilin-1 Satellite. It is a kind of satellite constellation of private think tanks that take satellite pictures. A DF-31 missile-based launch vehicle and using solid fuel.

The red Chinese word means "our space". Trust me, the word "we" does not refer specifically to the Chinese (Hell even worse)

This rocket also set a new post-Cold War human space record: rapid successive launches (six hours apart) of the same model in the same place in one day.

And the second one is the CZ-11 (Long March 11) rocket launching {Jilin-1 Gaofen(High resolution)-03C 1,2,3 Video Satellites} and {Jinlin-1 Gaofen-03B 1,2,3,4,5,6 Scan Satellites}. It was happened at 9th Sep. 2019. CZ-11 is solid fuel launch vehicle with fast access to space and emergency launch capability. The launch cycle does not exceed 72 hours, with a minimum launch time of within 24 hours

You can find more at this link below: the company who own the Jilin-1 satellites

http://www.charmingglobe.com/EWeb/index.aspx

[steve9728]

3 hours ago, JoeSchmuckatelli said:

We did help the other Chinese nation (Taiwan) with some development. CM-11 Brave Tiger | Military Wiki | Fandom

But after Korea I'm not sure how much mil-tech went officially from West to East.  Perhaps just enough to balance out Sino-Russian tensions.

Also, from WOT: Type 59 Patton (Fake) (tanks-encyclopedia.com)

 

Back to Christie and his suspension: that was the old US arrogance.  He did not have 'the right connections' and so no one took him seriously.

(Also, I'm not naive enough to think the US isn't picking through RU and CN trash and data transmissions for interesting tidbits.  Should - heck pretty much anyone - come up with a good idea... what's the old saying?  I don't care what color the cat is, so long as it catches mice?)

 

Well millitary things... during the honeymoon period between the US and China, we got civilian version C-130, a dozen of Black Hawk (it really helps a lot at 2008 Sichuan's earthquake), offer a lot of help on how to modify the J-7 plane:it has to some extent contributed to the standardisation and modularisation of Chinese military products. And btw we also grap the L7 tank cannon from UK, SA-342L and SA-321 helicopter from France, some gas turbine tech for ships from Canada(?). Some old retired generals even said on some talk shows that if we hadn't been poor at the time, we would have even wanted to buy the German Leopard I tank. And from Soviet/Russian? Have to say if we don't have them we don't even know how and where to start.

To take two countries that nearly three to four decades ago were thinking of "nuclear surgery" on one side while the other was desperately and frantically building fortifications and digging bomb shelters, and force them into what is now a "new era of comprehensive strategic partnership", one can only wonder how lucky American politicians are that they were not born in a country that has a strict system of accountability for its officials.

"No matter black cat or white cat, a good cat is a good cat when it catches a mouse", said by former Chairmen, Deng Xiaoping

Edited November 23, 2021 by steve9728

[JoeSchmuckatelli]

13 minutes ago, steve9728 said:

one can only wonder how lucky American politicians are that they were not born in a country that has a strict system of accountability for its officials

No matter how perplexing it is to outsiders... it still dismays us.