Colonization Discussion Thread (split from SpaceX)

[kerbiloid]

3 hours ago, tater said:

If you've got spaceships, who needs nukes?

 

3 hours ago, tater said:

Grab a near Mars icy asteroid, and throw that

with nukes.

[Mad Rocket Scientist]

4 hours ago, James Kerman said:

Apparently Elon wishes to nuke the poles (gasp):

https://www.zmescience.com/science/elon-musk-mars-terraforming-03243/

Well, that will only release the water vapor and CO2 in the ice caps, which the study says isn't enough.

3 hours ago, tater said:

If you've got spaceships, who needs nukes? Grab a near Mars icy asteroid, and throw that, instead.

In the short term nukes are probably easier. On the other hand, they're less effective.

But it does offer a good way of nuclear disarmament, two countries could agree to launch an equal amount of nukes at mars, which removes the question of hiding them instead of dismantling them, doesn't contaminate any humans, and accomplishes possibly the most useful thing nukes could ever be used for.

[kerbiloid]

3 hours ago, Mad Rocket Scientist said:

two countries could agree to launch an equal amount of nukes at mars, which removes the question of hiding them instead of dismantling them

and raises a question: how many of them were sent into high elliptic orbit to unexpectedly return 10 years later on the partner's territory.

Also rockets usually have ~95% reliability, so if launch 3000 nukes, ~150 of them will fall back.

Edited July 31, 2018 by kerbiloid

[Xd the great]

1 hour ago, kerbiloid said:

and raises a question: how many of them were sent into high elliptic orbit to unexpectedly return 10 years later on the partner's territory.

Also rockets usually have ~95% reliability, so if launch 3000 nukes, ~150 of them will fall back.

There is something called flight termination system.

 

It might rain death over place though.

[kerbiloid]

2 minutes ago, Xd the great said:

There is something called flight termination system.

And where do the nukes fly then?

[Xd the great]

2 minutes ago, kerbiloid said:

And where do the nukes fly then?

Parachutes, LES, or just go boom.

Relaunch later.

[kerbiloid]

10 minutes ago, Xd the great said:

Parachutes, LES

Warheads have neither chutes, nor LES.
So, you would launch them in heavy capsules with chutes and LES (like I'm planning to do this in my KSP, lol)
This would require an absolutely enormous amounts of launches.

150 booms of plutonium looks nice.

Edited July 31, 2018 by kerbiloid

[James Kerman]

I like @tater's idea better than nukes but I still believe the planetary protection officer would have a problem with it.

The other problem is the lack of magnetosphere.

[zolotiyeruki]

Nukes don't spontaneously go off if they hit the ground.  In fact, like space, Nuclear Is Hard.  The worst you're likely to get in case of a launch failure is the bomb hitting the ground and the explosives (not the nuclear payload) going off.

[tater]

37 minutes ago, zolotiyeruki said:

Nukes don't spontaneously go off if they hit the ground.  In fact, like space, Nuclear Is Hard.  The worst you're likely to get in case of a launch failure is the bomb hitting the ground and the explosives (not the nuclear payload) going off.

What does this have to do with anything? Nukes fired at Mars for this purpose would obviously be fused to do what was required for the desired goal (ground burst or air burst). I still think throwing ice would make more sense, though (assuming 0.38g is worth bothering about).

[kerbiloid]

1 hour ago, zolotiyeruki said:

Nukes don't spontaneously go off if they hit the ground.

Nukes spread around plutonium if hit the ground or burn in atmosphere.
And ~150 of 3000 will be lost if launch them into space.

[Mad Rocket Scientist]

12 hours ago, kerbiloid said:

and raises a question: how many of them were sent into high elliptic orbit to unexpectedly return 10 years later on the partner's territory.

I imagine they would be very closely tracked by both countries. With 10 years, it's easy to launch something on an intercept course. Plus, FTS systems could be installed under the supervision of both countries, set up so either country could destroy the nuke.

12 hours ago, kerbiloid said:

Also rockets usually have ~95% reliability, so if launch 3000 nukes, ~150 of them will fall back.

True, but by the time terraforming mars could be very seriously considered, the reliability of rockets will hopefully have improved, at least to the point where flying rockets with nukes would be considered as (in)sane as flying military aircraft with nukes. Maybe we'll even have space elevators or orbital rings by then.

[Xd the great]

Bruh, just use magnets to create a magnetic field.

[James Kerman]

I started looking into what would be required to protect the Martian atmosphere from the solar wind but it seems NASA has a good idea here:
 

Quote

According to NASA Planetary Science Division director Jim Green, a powerful magnetic dipole positioned at the Mars L1 Lagrange Point could potentially deflect the solar wind like a natural magnetic field.

https://www.extremetech.com/extreme/245369-nasa-proposes-building-artificial-magnetic-field-restore-mars-atmosphere
Paper Here: https://www.hou.usra.edu/meetings/V2050/pdf/8250.pdf

Quote

Green and his colleagues admit this idea is “fanciful,” but it’s not completely outside the realm of possibility. We might have the ability to build a magnetic shield for Mars in the next few decades.

 

[Spaceception]

On 7/30/2018 at 8:17 PM, tater said:

If you've got spaceships, who needs nukes? Grab a near Mars icy asteroid, and throw that, instead.

All the boom, with none of the radiation! And bonus ice and Co2 as well, it's a win-win!

[Xd the great]

Desmos?

[kerbiloid]

Spoiler

3 hours ago, Xd the great said:

Desmos?

Especially Deimos dislikes when they call him Desmos.

desmos: a band, bond

Original Word: δεσμός, οῦ, ὁ
Part of Speech: Noun, Masculine; Noun, Neuter
Transliteration: desmos
Phonetic Spelling: (des-mon')
Short Definition: a bond, chain
Definition: a bond, chain, imprisonment; a string or ligament, an impediment, infirmity.

 

[Xd the great]

1 hour ago, kerbiloid said:

  Hide contents

Especially Deimos dislikes when they call him Desmos.

desmos: a band, bond

Original Word: δεσμός, οῦ, ὁ
Part of Speech: Noun, Masculine; Noun, Neuter
Transliteration: desmos
Phonetic Spelling: (des-mon')
Short Definition: a bond, chain
Definition: a bond, chain, imprisonment; a string or ligament, an impediment, infirmity.

 

Ok..

[Spaceception]

So I've been thinking most of the day while wet vacuuming (Not much else to do) of what SpaceX should/could do before they set off on colonizing Mars. 

Before colonizing, I think they should establish a scientific base on the surface that can get back to Earth if need be. This will have the crew study the effects of humans living in lower gee for over a year, and study the procreation/development of different animals to try and get an idea if people can actually survive without too many problems.

The second thing is what SpaceX should do in the event of it being too dangerous to live there (And some of you can probably already guess), but I think, using the BFR's capability, they should establish mining bases on the Moon (Maybe Mars), to set up orbital colonies instead. Get our eggs out of one basket, but getting around the problem of living on a planet with weak gravity. People could still live short term on the Moon and Mars, but only for less than a year at a time. Most of the time, they would live in space.

The BFR would also be an excellent way of doing exploratory missions to the outer planets. With refueling, a smaller crew, larger cargo, and a tether system between two ships to provide gravity, it could be a good way to do up close, long-term surveys of places like Europa, Enceladus, and Titan. Instead of finding out new things about these bodies, and needing a brand-new craft for various discoveries with years in between to get them there, they could manufacture new probes and landers on-site according to their needs.
By the time this is viable to get them there, space manufacturing and 3D printing in space should be good enough for that to work. Maybe they can "dock" with one the Asteroid Moons to do this,

Or, that's too overkill, and I'm getting ahead of myself.

[Xd the great]

1 hour ago, Spaceception said:

So I've been thinking most of the day while wet vacuuming (Not much else to do) of what SpaceX should/could do before they set off on colonizing Mars. 

Before colonizing, I think they should establish a scientific base on the surface that can get back to Earth if need be. This will have the crew study the effects of humans living in lower gee for over a year, and study the procreation/development of different animals to try and get an idea if people can actually survive without too many problems.

The second thing is what SpaceX should do in the event of it being too dangerous to live there (And some of you can probably already guess), but I think, using the BFR's capability, they should establish mining bases on the Moon (Maybe Mars), to set up orbital colonies instead. Get our eggs out of one basket, but getting around the problem of living on a planet with weak gravity. People could still live short term on the Moon and Mars, but only for less than a year at a time. Most of the time, they would live in space.

The BFR would also be an excellent way of doing exploratory missions to the outer planets. With refueling, a smaller crew, larger cargo, and a tether system between two ships to provide gravity, it could be a good way to do up close, long-term surveys of places like Europa, Enceladus, and Titan. Instead of finding out new things about these bodies, and needing a brand-new craft for various discoveries with years in between to get them there, they could manufacture new probes and landers on-site according to their needs.
By the time this is viable to get them there, space manufacturing and 3D printing in space should be good enough for that to work. Maybe they can "dock" with one the Asteroid Moons to do this,

Or, that's too overkill, and I'm getting ahead of myself.

They will set a mining colony on mars. The bfs cannot go from LEO to Mard and back without refueling.

I am interested about the abort procedure. How will they have a free return trajectory from mars in case something apollo 13 happens?

[sh1pman]

17 minutes ago, Xd the great said:

I am interested about the abort procedure. How will they have a free return trajectory from mars in case something apollo 13 happens?

There’s no free return from Mars. You’d need to wait 3-4 months for the return window, otherwise you’ll get stranded in solar orbit forever. In case something bad happens, the crew will have to fix it.

[Xd the great]

7 minutes ago, sh1pman said:

There’s no free return from Mars. You’d need to wait 3-4 months for the return window, otherwise you’ll get stranded in solar orbit forever. In case something bad happens, the crew will have to fix it.

Ehhh... so they will always need an engine to do an abort.

[mikegarrison]

8 minutes ago, sh1pman said:

There’s no free return from Mars. You’d need to wait 3-4 months for the return window, otherwise you’ll get stranded in solar orbit forever. In case something bad happens, the crew will have to fix it.

The outstanding British TV show Star Cops featured one episode where a spaceship crew had to help investigate their own deaths (murder or accident?). Their engines had an unscheduled burn and left them without fuel on a trajectory that was going to take them too far away from anywhere to get rescued. So they were already considered "dead" even as they ran diagnostics on their ship.

[sh1pman]

1 minute ago, mikegarrison said:

The outstanding British TV show Star Cops featured one episode where a spaceship crew had to help investigate their own deaths (murder or accident?). Their engines had an unscheduled burn and left them without fuel on a trajectory that was going to take them too far away from anywhere to get rescued. So they were already considered "dead" even as they ran diagnostics on their ship.

Yea, terrible situation to be in. If I were them, I’d exit the spaceship with no spacesuit after finishing the diagnostics. Hmm, would I explode or freeze first?

[mikegarrison]

5 minutes ago, sh1pman said:

Yea, terrible situation to be in. If I were them, I’d exit the spaceship with no spacesuit after finishing the diagnostics. Hmm, would I explode or freeze first?

That was their plan, yes. However, <spoilers> intervened.

Spoiler

It turned out the whole thing was deliberate sabotage. A researcher was studying cryogenic preservation techniques and his request to do human testing had been refused. So he sabotaged this ship that was carrying his experimental equipment and set it up so that their only chance of survival was to use his system. He ended up being caught, but they were going to have to wait several years  for the ship to be recoverable to find out if the charges would be assault or murder....