[1.3.1] Interstellar Flight Inc. - Kerbal Life Support Mod Development thread

[jpkerman]

 My need for a LS mod is simply to give a limiting factor to missions other than the infinite shelf life a Kerbal has in a can around the Mun.  IFLS did this.  I believe an optional depth to the mod would offer it a wider user base and support the work even if i may not use it.  My main two points are:
  1.  I always felt the argument that a greenhouse only needs EC to produce infinite LS overlooks an arrangement that the greenhouse is a Closed loop system of seeds/plants/growth medium/O2-CO2 exchange and foodstuff production that used the EC for growth lamps/heat-cool/ electrolysis.  I envisioned that it may need occasional restock of Greenhouse Supplies which would keep IFLS as a simplified two component mod, LS and GHS to keep Kerbals alive. A Greenhouse with GHS + EC = LS.  It was not simply making LS from only EC, there were Greenhouse components being abstracted.

  2. I use Dang It! as a malfunction mod.  All resources can leak or fail (including LS) so I have to have backup or plans for aborting a mission/escape pods.  I would like to ask that as you design an enhanced IFLS if you would keep this mod in mind and provide that if I do not play with the slurry/sludge (or whatever you finish with) options that a background processing does not let Dang It! create leaks in tanks or resources that I have no access to repair in the game.  In effect that not turning the options 'on' will be recognized by Dang It!

   Thank you for keeping this mod and all the others you safeguard alive.  I truly do not know how you keep it all up.  You seem to be the Dr. Frankenstein of mods by bringing so many dead mods back to life.

Edited November 20, 2017 by jpkerman

[linuxgurugamer]

Sludge and slurry are internal mechanics.  All you need to thing about is LifeSupport.  The idea here is to allow the mod to work as it was originally written, but to allow for additional playability options if the player desires without having to go to a different Life Support mod

[theJesuit]

Hi @linuxgurugamer,

I'm getting ready to begin a new career, and ditching Kerbalism in favour of Kerbal Health and IFILS.  Given that it takes me several weeks to move through a career, do you think will the 'Enhanced' version be able to dropped in over the top of an existing install with IFI being used?

Peace.

[linuxgurugamer]

56 minutes ago, theJesuit said:

Hi @linuxgurugamer,

I'm getting ready to begin a new career, and ditching Kerbalism in favour of Kerbal Health and IFILS.  Given that it takes me several weeks to move through a career, do you think will the 'Enhanced' version be able to dropped in over the top of an existing install with IFI being used?

Peace.

Yes.  It will be upgradable via the settings page.

[linuxgurugamer]

I've now added the three levels of life support to the settings page, so that you can select which level you want to play with.  They are all upwardly compatible

I'm now working on the technology tree.  All parts will be in the life support branch, which will start with Biosciences, then split into two branches for the next two levels and finally merge back into a final node.

[linuxgurugamer]

Update:  I now have a config for the Community Tech Tree

 

I hope to release a beta Sunday evening

[linuxgurugamer]

Finally!!!!!

Alpha release now available, along with a new release thread here:

 

[linuxgurugamer]

Just updated to Alpha-2, details in the release thread:

•     Added the PartModules into the release build to avoid unnecessary warning/errors in the log file
•     Updated the part configs for the tanks to share the textures, reduces memory usage and loading time
•     Replaced textures for the slurry and sludge tanks 
•     Added OrganicSlurry and Sludge to LS display, only displayed if LS mode allows
•     Fixed bug where Slurry and Sludge tanks were launching full
•     Add Slurry rate and Sludge rate (rate/day of processing)

[linuxgurugamer]

Alpha 3 is released

[linuxgurugamer]

Alpha 4 is released, getting close to a very solid beta

[linuxgurugamer]

I just released the first beta, we are out of alpha.

Details in the release thread, but you can get it here:

https://github.com/linuxgurugamer/IFI-Life-Support/releases/tag/3.4.0.4

[flart]

if sometime it go to release and will get habitation (like USI), then it will become best LS mod.

 

Edited December 4, 2017 by flart

[linuxgurugamer]

25 minutes ago, flart said:

if sometime it go to release and will get habitation (like USI), then it will become best LS mod.

 

Not sure about habitation, but it is now in beta, release will be soon if no issues show up

I know there are some generic habitation mods out there, I may eventually add configs for things like those.

But the whole idea behind this is KISS - Keep It Simple Stupid,

and whatever I end up doing, has to stay simple

[flart]

There is my thoughts:

• wondering, why someone need more then 100%? You have 1LS and 100% recycle — you can feed all Kerbin  
• "day remaining" and "rate" are not realtime. if you have 100% recycle — ∞ days remaining, not LS/kerbals days
  3 kerbals, no recycle or recycle disabled, or no EC for recycle —  LS rate = -3, slurry rate = 3,  sludge rate = 0, 
  3 kerbals, Greenhouse                                                                     —  LS rate = -0.3, slurry rate = 0,  sludge rate = 0.3, 
  3 kerbals, Greenhouse + MicroBiome                                           —  LS rate = 0    , slurry rate = 0,  sludge rate = 0, 
• Status Display at VAB for building vessel?
• realtime days remaining is cool, and correct realtime rates replases process time

About Keep It Simple Stupid:
I was thinking what slurry and sludge are pure virtual, shows up only at Status Display and part's info. Not in resource panel. 
That idea was canceled?

Edited December 4, 2017 by flart

[linuxgurugamer]

4 minutes ago, flart said:

There is my thoughts:

• Why someone need more then 100%? You have 1LS and 100% recycle — you can feed all Kerbin  
• "day remaining" and "rate" are not realtime. if you have 100% recycle — ∞ day remaining, not LS/kerbals
  3 kerbals, no recycle or recycle disabled, or no EC for recycle —  LS rate = -3, slurry rate = 3,  sludge rate = 0, 
  3 kerbals, Greenhouse                                                                     —  LS rate = -0.3, slurry rate = 0,  sludge rate = 0.3, 
  3 kerbals, Greenhouse + MicroBiome                                           —  LS rate = 0    , slurry rate = 0,  sludge rate = 0, 
• Status Display at VAB for building vessel?
• realtime day remaining is cool, but correct realtime rates replases process time

About Keep It Simple Stupid:
I was thinking what slurry and sludge are pure virtual, shows up only at Status Display and part's info. Not in resource panel. 
That idea was canceled?

Days remaining is if there is no recycling.  It's the amount of days remaining of LS only.

Rate is the rate at which the recycling is done, per day of that particular resource

No status at VAB at this time, sorry.

The OrganicSlurry and Sludge are there in the advanced modes.  If you go to classic mode, then they won't show up.

Read the OP of the release thread, it goes into the reasoning in more detail.

[linuxgurugamer]

I'll probably add support for this in the Tokumak Industries hab pack eventually, but I need to figure out  what it's going to do, beyond the current recycling

 

[flart]

1 hour ago, linuxgurugamer said:

Days remaining is if there is no recycling.  It's the amount of days remaining of LS only.

Rate is the rate at which the recycling is done, per day of that particular resource

I am pretty sure what everyone can divide LS/kerbals by themself, realtime rate and remaining days are harder to do, but more valuable information to user:

it helps not to forget enable recycle, and figure out what's going on.

1 hour ago, linuxgurugamer said:

The OrganicSlurry and Sludge are there in the advanced modes.  If you go to classic mode, then they won't show up.

 Yes, if you use mode without OrganicSlurry or Sludge, they are not show up at resource manager.

I am talking about the different thing: 99% time of flight you need to worry about all kind of fuel, EC, LS, because you don't want your kerbals dead. And you usually don't worry about Sludge, Slurry, Mulch, Fertilizer, etc.

1% time of flight you want  to manage (check) your Life Support system, and use special status display for that. There all Life Support system resource shows up. So you don't really need them clutter up your resource panel! 

That what I am talking about — for advanced modes to make Slurry and Sludge totally hidden, like compressed O2 for Extreme mode. It still would be available at status display, but not at resource panel. Therefore retire tanks for Slurry and Sludge — KISS — Keep It Simple Stupid.

Edited December 4, 2017 by flart

[linuxgurugamer]

That is what classic mode is.

It does make sense to have an abbreviated panel.

Sluyr and Sludge tanks arent needed if syffucient recyclers are attached to the vessel in question, but if someone wants to do an extended mission without the recyclers, but to be able to recycle eventually, they will need the tanks.

[linuxgurugamer]

4 hours ago, flart said:

1% time of flight you want  to manage (check) your Life Support system, and use special status display for that. There all Life Support system resource shows up. So you don't really need them clutter up your resource panel! 

So, I was thinking about this, and think you have a point.

So I added an option in the settings to display  the OrganicSlurry and Sludge in the resource panel, so, if you don't want it, you can disable it.

[theJesuit]

11 minutes ago, linuxgurugamer said:

So, I was thinking about this, and think you have a point.

So I added an option in the settings to display  the OrganicSlurry and Sludge in the resource panel, so, if you don't want it, you can disable it.

To be fair I think that was your original intention Linuxgurugamer, and it may have been my suggestion that swayed you to fully displayed reources.

The toggle is a great option.  

Peace. 

[flart]

9 hours ago, linuxgurugamer said:

but if someone wants to do an extended mission without the recyclers, but to be able to recycle eventually, they will need the tanks.

a toggle,  what add slurry and sludge tanks for these guys?

9 hours ago, flart said:

realtime rate and remaining days (like USI) are harder to do, but more valuable information to user:

it helps not to forget enable recycle, and figure out what's going on.

what do you think about this?

[linuxgurugamer]

3 hours ago, flart said:

a toggle,  what add slurry and sludge tanks for these guys?

what do you think about this?

Read the OP, it seems you have not read the OP in full.  I'll quote the relevant section:

Quote

The mod is designed so that you can switch between the different modes of operation at any time without causing problems.  So, you can start off at the Classic mode, and over time change it to Enhanced, Advanced and Extreme.  If you feel that the higher modes are too difficult, you can easily change it back to a lower mode.  Any existing ships will continue to operate in the mode they were designed in; ie:  If you have a ship/colony which is using the Enhanced mode and has greenhouses, and then switch back to Classic, the greenhouses will continue to work, etc

 

[linuxgurugamer]

Once this is done, and it's very close now, I'll be starting to think about habitats.  I don't intend to add any parts, there are sufficient habitat mods around, but I will  be writing configs for them, starting with the Tokamak Refurbished Parts.

So I'm looking for some ideas as to what you think various habitats should do regarding life support.

I've identified the following minor issues which need addressing, all related to the status display window:

• Fix status display of EVA kerbals to status window using EVA values for the status, currently using vessel values for the status
• For eval kerbals, don't' show sludge or slurry
• if no recyclers, don't show recycle rates

Beyond this, I have nothing else for the initial release; unless I hear more, I expect to be able to reelase this over the coming weekend

Edited December 5, 2017 by linuxgurugamer

[linuxgurugamer]

11 hours ago, theJesuit said:

To be fair I think that was your original intention Linuxgurugamer, and it may have been my suggestion that swayed you to fully displayed reources.

The toggle is a great option.  

Peace. 

It may have helped but I was running into the issue of how to make it all work.  This seemed like the best solution, to have higher levels need the additional resources.

And the toggle was a great suggestion, see the latest beta to be able to use it.

[flart]

8 hours ago, linuxgurugamer said:

Read the OP, it seems you have not read the OP in full

I had read release-OP and all this dev-thread.

I understand what I can hide slurry and sludge tanks (SST) at lower modes together with recycle parts and resources at panel.

But similar to resource-thing, I don't really need SST because I won't "to do an extended mission without the recyclers, but to be able to recycle eventually"

but I need extended mode for recycling.

So you propose:

1. toggle extended mode, build 100% recycle ship (and see SST at VAB, which I don't want to see)
2. launch vessel
3. toggle classic mode for not see SST at VAB.
4. for every new 100%-recycling vessel GOTO 1

Or I can just:

1. toggle extended mode and don't show SST at VAB
2. launch vessels
3. if I wanted SST I would untoggle don't show SST at VAB

That why I think this second new toggle is a good idea.