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Air Superiority Fighter Competition Continued

exbyde

By exbyde
in KSP1 Challenges & Mission ideas

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Piatzin

Piatzin

Posted
Posted
1 minute ago, dundun92 said:

Ur plane needs it. Even the Du-5R and TFD 2.1 have it!

I don't read every single post in this thread :P Lately I've been caught up with homework and missed about ten pages lol

What's the MLRS?

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Posted
Posted
11 minutes ago, Earthlinger said:

I don't read every single post in this thread :P Lately I've been caught up with homework and missed about ten pages lol

What's the MLRS?

It allows routing without getting a lock basically. 

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Wolf5698

Wolf5698

Posted
Posted
1 hour ago, Box of Stardust said:

Up next is @Wolf5698's Jaguar, facing off against #5 spot, @dundun92's Du-3.

 

 

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Analysis:

The opposite problem of the Cake. It gets its missiles off thanks to being heat-seekers, but the plane just wasn't competing much in the gun merge. Partially because the AI always has to take time to switch to guns if it's getting heat locks, which costs valuable time. It was also slow, which meant spending more time in the merge, where the Du-3s are at their deadliest.

Also- also also also- control surfaces, my dude. You need to spam big, meaty control surfaces. The Jaguars were just too sluggish to turn around and fight if they managed to survive the merge.

 

The jaguar should have been more manuverable. I had to impose a AOA limit on the AI so that it wouldn’t spin out. The limit was way more then what it was doing

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Box of Stardust

Box of Stardust

Posted
Posted (edited)

Last battle for now: @goduranus's Vampire Squirrel continues the climb up the leaderboard, facing off against my Viper-ASP MkIIc.

 

 

 

Spoiler

Extended analysis:

Unlike the first time the Vipers faced off against the Squirrels, this time the dogfights are a bit closer- and it's actually thanks to the MLRS. My tactical decisions make my aircraft weak in the previous merge meta, but the MLRS does away with the initial merge, eliminating that weakness, especially the always-dangerous friendly-fire Sidewinder that hounded the Viper in its run. Interestingly, the Vampire Squirrel is also now tuned the similarly as Viper and PEGASys with its weapon ranges.

Battle 1 ends with an exciting conclusion, with the last aircraft of both teams surviving a collision! It was almost grounds for an 8v8 if each aircraft were just a meter closer together; you can see the extent of damage done through the aircraft part counts, with the VS going from 53 to 49 and the Viper going from 75 to 73. However, the Squirrel, despite losing a canard, a wing, and an elevator, still had enough stability to keep guns on target.

Battle 2 is a bit less exciting, but both teams still come down to their last aircraft. Still, it was almost a 2v3 victory, as the MLRS operator fatality flaw rears its head again taking one VS out early.

In the end, the Viper put up a fight, but its less-perfected tuning leaves its full potential untapped; it doesn't take turns as hardly and smoothly as it could. The Vampire Squirrel is more refined, putting it a pace ahead of the Viper, and is enough to give it the #4 to be continued spot!

 

Current leaderboard:

1 TFD mod A
2 Rabid Squirrel
3 PEGASys-D3 (to be continued)
4 Vampire Squirrel (to be continued)
5 Viper-ASP MkIIc
6 Du-3

 

Edited by Box of Stardust
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goduranus

goduranus

Posted
Posted

Hey, @Box of Stardust, thanks for running the dogfights.

Noticed Vampire Squirrel had pilots in the command seat. Could you not spawn the pilots? they actually increase drag, and might be the reason why VS is exploding so much cuz the MLRS might be hitting the pilot's head collision box.  VesselMover's spawn menu has a checkbox to deselect spawn with crew.

Thought I fixed tipping on the runway, but realized that I didn't upload the fixed version.

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Box of Stardust

Box of Stardust

Posted
Posted (edited)
3 minutes ago, goduranus said:

Hey, @Box of Stardust, thanks for running the dogfights.

Noticed Vampire Squirrel had pilots in the command seat. Could you not spawn the pilots? they actually increase drag, and might be the reason why VS is exploding so much cuz the MLRS might be hitting the pilot's head collision box.  VesselMover's spawn menu has a checkbox to deselect spawn with crew.

Thought I fixed tipping on the runway, but realized that I didn't upload the fixed version.

Guhh... I always forget to turn off spawn pilots, because I know your Squirrels can run autonomously. That'll probably be for @exbyde though, since I can't test the VS further.

Now that you mention it, I did a lot of testing of my Basilisk against your VS, and it never really killed itself during testing, so it probably was the spawned pilots.

TFD 2.1 on the other hand...

Edited by Box of Stardust
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Box of Stardust

Box of Stardust

Posted
Posted

You guys are in for a treat, because I still have tons of free time.

First up is @dundun92 vs himself, with the Du-5R going up against the Du-3. With an even nuttier-looking plane than the original Du-5R that was first posted. And... some crazy-looking MLRS that's slightly derivative of the VS one.

 

Spoiler

Analysis:

wat

Well. That's a first.

Du-3s won without firing a shot.

I guess that weird-looking thing does exactly what you'd expect it to do.

I'm gonna pass on this for now and retest it later with a redesign... and then maybe figure out how to test the roster against it later when something else gets past the Du-3.

 

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53miner53

53miner53

Posted
Posted
10 minutes ago, Box of Stardust said:

You guys are in for a treat, because I still have tons of free time.

First up is @dundun92 vs himself, with the Du-5R going up against the Du-3. With an even nuttier-looking plane than the original Du-5R that was first posted. And... some crazy-looking MLRS that's slightly derivative of the VS one.

 

  Hide contents

Analysis:

wat

Well. That's a first.

Du-3s won without firing a shot.

I guess that weird-looking thing does exactly what you'd expect it to do.

I'm gonna pass on this for now and retest it later with a redesign... and then maybe figure out how to test the roster against it later when something else gets past the Du-3.

 

Spoiler

Planes launch MLRS and flares: explode in a big fireball. :D that deserves an honorable mention. 

 

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Box of Stardust

Box of Stardust

Posted
Posted (edited)
4 minutes ago, 53miner53 said:
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Planes launch MLRS and flares: explode in a big fireball. :D that deserves an honorable mention. 

 

@dundun92 apparently designed the Du-3 so that it would be his top creation, with the ability to cause other aircraft by him to commit seppuku when faced against it.

@Mukita12 your F-16 doesn't have a Flight AI and a Weapon Manager, so it can't be tested.

Edited by Box of Stardust
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Posted
Posted
4 hours ago, Box of Stardust said:

TFD 2.1 on the other hand

whats wrong

Dont time warp with the TFD 2.1. Also @exbyde could you raise the min altitude on the TFD 2.1 to 400?

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Posted
Posted
4 hours ago, goduranus said:

Hey, @Box of Stardust, thanks for running the dogfights.

Noticed Vampire Squirrel had pilots in the command seat. Could you not spawn the pilots? they actually increase drag, and might be the reason why VS is exploding so much cuz the MLRS might be hitting the pilot's head collision box.  VesselMover's spawn menu has a checkbox to deselect spawn with crew.

Thought I fixed tipping on the runway, but realized that I didn't upload the fixed version.

Can the VS beat the TFD 2.1?

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Box of Stardust

Box of Stardust

Posted
Posted (edited)

Okay, so this next test is a bit of... an interesting one.

It's my Gunbrick going up against @dundun92's Du-3, or as I like to term it, Du-3 vs hyper-Du-3. Sorta. The Gunbrick kinda flies like a brick; not really super agile.

Anyways, due to the nature of these aircraft, and my obsessive pursuit for fairness, it was really hard to get fair fights because of the differences aircraft formation can make in results for this particular match up.

So, you all get not 3, but 12 matches of Air Jousting Competition. The level of excitement is up to you to decide. As per usual, analysis at the end.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Spoiler

Analysis:

Statistical significance says: Gunbrick wins over Du-3, something like 9-3 or 10-2, I forget. Again, for fairness, battles were conducted with aircraft taking off from both airfields and spectating was done on both sides. To note: the KSC launch put aircraft in tighter formations than the Island Airfield, probably due to how I space aicraft out on the island (it's hard to judge distance without reference lines like the KSC runway).

Throwing twice the amount of 20mm down range as the Du-3 on a platform that is slimmer in frontal profile and extremely stable to fly, the Du-3s just can't win in the initial merge, and in this gun-based air jousting tournament, the merge is everything (hence, jousting competition). Gunbrick can survive the return corridor of fire not just because of a slim profile, but also due to its symmetrical design that gives it flight redundancy when gunfire does manage to skim a layer or two off of it.

The Du-3 wins when formation variance comes into play, throwing fighters from either team out of formation and giving them a chance to survive. Numerical superiority is pretty straightforward in this battle.

Gunbrick is... well, kind of a brick when it needs to turn. Du-3 turns faster, so if there's not enough distance between the two after the merge, Gunbrick is just too slow to get onto target.

In general, tighter formations will tend to lose simply because it's easier to focus fire on them. Especially if one plane is almost lined right up behind another. However, on that note, the excessive volume of fire and flight redundant symmetry from Gunbrick does still allow it to win occasionally despite rear-row teamkills on the lead aircraft.

This gives Gunbrick the 'temporary' #6 spot and will go up against Viper in #5, which will showcase a different kind of battle.

Current leaderboard as of this post:

1 TFD mod A
2 Rabid Squirrel
3 PEGASys-D3 (to be continued)
4 Vampire Squirrel (to be continued)
5 Viper-ASP MkIIc
'temporary' 6 Gunbrick

 

Edited by Box of Stardust
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Posted
Posted
3 hours ago, Box of Stardust said:

@dundun92 apparently designed the Du-3 so that it would be his top creation, with the ability to cause other aircraft by him to commit seppuku when faced against it.

@Mukita12 your F-16 doesn't have a Flight AI and a Weapon Manager, so it can't be tested.

Er, that was unexpected. I mean, it shouldn't have destroyed itself like, er, that.

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goduranus

goduranus

Posted
Posted

I watched some old Rabid Squirrel videos and restored it to what I believe are old settings. So here's PEGASys vs Rabid Squirrel

Spoiler

PEGASys seems superior to Rabid Squirrel, particularly in its survivability evident in the first match, where it could continue flying despite losing many of the wing pieces

 

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