KSP Weekly: A Corned Beef Sandwich

[Mako]

1 hour ago, skellyboy said:

doesn't it say there trying to work in mods for the console?

 

That sounds extremely unlikely. To date, as far as I'm aware only 2 of the highest profile games from one of the biggest studios has managed to convince Microsoft and Sony to allow mods on their consoles. KSP, even under Take-Two Interactive, is unlikely to have as much influence as major titles from Bethesda.

That being said, if somehow Microsoft and/or Sony did allow Squad/Take-Two to add mod support, it seems likely that mods that run code, such as MechJeb, would not be allowed. I base this on the restrictions placed upon Skyrim and Fallout mods. In fact, I believe Sony doesn't even allow assets other than those built into the game to be loaded, so Sony wouldn't even allow part pack mods.

I see a lot of people hoping for or asking for mod support on consoles, and while I completely understand the desire for them, I don't understand why people think it is possible. I might be a little less negative on my evaluation of the situation if I saw any examples of mods on consoles besides the two gigantic, hugely popular games from Bethesda, but until that happens I remain pessimistic on the topic of mods on consoles. That goes for any game, not just KSP.

[CobaltWolf]

19 minutes ago, Mako said:

That sounds extremely unlikely. To date, as far as I'm aware only 2 of the highest profile games from one of the biggest studios has managed to convince Microsoft and Sony to allow mods on their consoles. KSP, even under Take-Two Interactive, is unlikely to have as much influence as major titles from Bethesda.

That being said, if somehow Microsoft and/or Sony did allow Squad/Take-Two to add mod support, it seems likely that mods that run code, such as MechJeb, would not be allowed. I base this on the restrictions placed upon Skyrim and Fallout mods. In fact, I believe Sony doesn't even allow assets other than those built into the game to be loaded, so Sony wouldn't even allow part pack mods.

I see a lot of people hoping for or asking for mod support on consoles, and while I completely understand the desire for them, I don't understand why people think it is possible. I might be a little less negative on my evaluation of the situation if I saw any examples of mods on consoles besides the two gigantic, hugely popular games from Bethesda, but until that happens I remain pessimistic on the topic of mods on consoles. That goes for any game, not just KSP.

As much as I sympathize with console players, at the end of the day the principles of console gaming are more or less diametrically opposed to modding. As you mentioned, trying to mod for consoles would be very restrictive and limiting because they can't conceivably give users the same level of control and access (who here hasn't written a custom MM patch?), not to mention you're now working against hardware constraints.

[SG Aero]

Well who says they have to tell Sony? Screw them. Just put it in there send out a pm to everyone talking about the mods as well as an installation guide, and bam. Don’t never needs to know. Plus as a bonus they could work around the asset thing by leaving a bunch of blank assets that they can replace as they add new parts.

[Angelo Kerman]

MOLE has had engine clustering for awhile, and it’s nice to see the stock game gaining the ability too. If we get segmented SRBs that improve performance with additional segments and wet worshops and inflatable crew parts that don’t allow you to add crew in the editor when deflated, I’d be happy.

Edited January 24, 2018 by Angel-125

[Mako]

22 hours ago, ShadowGoat said:

Well who says they have to tell Sony? Screw them. Just put it in there send out a pm to everyone talking about the mods as well as an installation guide, and bam. Don’t never needs to know. Plus as a bonus they could work around the asset thing by leaving a bunch of blank assets that they can replace as they add new parts.

You do realize there's a certification process that software goes through before being published on consoles, right? Based on some of the stuff I've seen on Sony's platform, I'd say the certification process is not there to guarantee the quality or value of the product. Obviously it's there to ensure that the software being published will at the very least run. More importantly the certification process is there to make sure the software can't compromise the system (for example by running unauthorized code). By hardware/OS design and by being strict with the software they allow, Microsoft and Sony have reduced the risk of software-only hacks on their platforms.

The nice thing about consoles is that unlike a computer you rarely have to worry about some unexpected bit of code running and possibly doing nefarious things. This is by design, and I doubt a developer could just add hooks to let mods load without it being noticed by the platform makers. And while modern consoles are pretty much just uniform-hardware PCs with a custom OS, I doubt the file system is such that end users could just replace assets with new versions to load like you can on PC. I'm sure there's ways to do it, possibly involving additional hardware to facilitate memory modification or something, but by and large these systems are locked down to prevent problems for both the platform maker and the end user.

A reliable, stable platform often requires some compromises in features and flexibility. Microsoft and Sony want their consoles to be reliable, stable platforms. I imagine that they would immediately pull any software that could potentially run unauthorized code if it were found after being published to the store. If your plan somehow wasn't foiled in certification checks it likely would be shortly after launch.

Edited January 24, 2018 by Mako

[SG Aero]

Dang. A serious technical response to an absurd hypothetical scenario. Well done. While I primarily intended the prior comment to be a joke, you have responded quite nicely. Well done sir.

[skellyboy]

would it be possible for the popular mods to be released as dlc or an update?

[Adelaar]

On the subject of parts: These new shrouds look the part! But one thing comes to mind; Will there ever be an option to change the look (and more importantly) the colour of parts to finally be able to make a coherent - and awesome - looking rocket instead of a product of Jeb's scrapyard?

[Sufficient Anonymity]

4 hours ago, Adelaar said:

Will there ever be an option to change the look (and more importantly) the colour of parts to finally be able to make a coherent - and awesome - looking rocket instead of a product of Jeb's scrapyard?

Yes - there's fairing and tank reskins shown in the post below. I just hope that the engines and 1.25m tanks get updated too.

 

[Mako]

@ShadowGoat

The joke flew right over my head and then I went and did what I always do: write way too thorough a response. The topic of modding on consoles can do that to me; it's one of the main reasons the PC is so appealing to me for games and I'd love to see them work on consoles. The reality, unfortunately but understandably, is that Microsoft, Sony, and Nintendo want something else for their systems.

Thank you for the kind words. I feel it's more than I deserve for missing the joke.

[GoSlash27]

On 1/19/2018 at 4:38 PM, SQUAD said:

I've got a dopey grin on my face...

Best,
-Slashy

[mattinoz]

11 hours ago, GoSlash27 said:

I've got a dopey grin on my face...

Best,
-Slashy

 

Is it wrong that the thing I like most about this is no more force driving up through the engines?

 

[Agarwel]

On 22. 1. 2018 at 5:36 PM, Mako said:

That sounds extremely unlikely. To date, as far as I'm aware only 2 of the highest profile games from one of the biggest studios has managed to convince Microsoft and Sony to allow mods on their consoles. KSP, even under Take-Two Interactive, is unlikely to have as much influence as major titles from Bethesda

And I would just add, that even this modding is limited (at least on PS4) . You can not basically mod the game. You can just reshuffle the assets in the editor and create some scripts with existing variables and game mechanics. You can not mod the game in sence of changing it. You can mod it in a same way you can "mod" the LitleBigPlanet by using level creator to do new levels. You can add new dungeon (combined from existing parts), you can change damage of weapons, you can chagne enemy placement. You can not do graphical overhaul.

And because modding of games like Kerbal is mainly abotu adding new stuff and new features, I would not expect it to be realistic.

[Adelaar]

20 hours ago, SufficientAnonymity said:

Yes - there's fairing and tank reskins shown in the post below. I just hope that the engines and 1.25m tanks get updated too.

 

Thanks! I must've missed that in my absence...

[Socraticat]

On 1/19/2018 at 2:38 PM, SQUAD said:

After months over a year (did you forget some of us have been waiting for enough months to add up to a year) of hard work hand in hand with our friends at BlitWorks, we have been able to provide console players a faithful and worthy version of KSP on both PS4 and Xbox One.  This is a lie. These past few days we have been carefully watching the response from the community while providing assistance with some controls and functions, and the whole team is jubilant to see that it has been predominantly positive (Happy to download it, sad when they've played it, bet you saw that coming and showed the good news in anticipation of hiding the bad). However, it is through your constructive criticism, feedback, suggestions and bug reports we are receiving that we’ll be able to solve the issues and bugs that have been showing up. So, yes, there is a patch planned (WILL IT TAKE MORE OR LESS THAN 30 DAYS? I'LL TAKE A REFUND IF YOU WANT ME TO WAIT ANOTHER YEAR) that will address many of the issues we’re discovering as part of our ongoing support plan for the Enhanced Edition. In the meantime, remember that posting on the Console Project of the Bugtracker with as much detail as possible is the best way to make sure we see and fix them, so please do report anything you find. As always, we appreciate all of your feedback!  The best way to handle this is to not have the consumer do your QA testing.

I think there are 2 types of KSP players. Players that make Space Stations, and those that do not. This outrage comes from console gamers that make up that subsection of your gaming population in the former category.

There's a vast lack of response in the bugtracker about progress on these gamebreaking issues. Corrupted saves, unresponsive UI, Jumbled controls, and unreliable performance. As I read this kind of babble that shows up in the weekly I can't help but think that this game is somebody's cash cow built off of a faulty product. Sell it to the masses, apologize for bugs, resolve by promising an update, wait a year to fulfill contract obligations (avoiding breach of contract by providing an update) and hopefully skate by statute of limitations when people get tired of waiting for an update. When the update comes out, Lather, Rinse, Repeat (and on a grander scale, I might say, once the game opens with language support).

Can you all explain to me how language support is a good idea right now? You developers would really rather make the faulty product more readily available than operational?

It's really a good plan to give multiple countries an unfinished product? I'm sure you won't have problems with the bugtracker when you have multiple languages coming in with technical details. I'm sure that will make it easier to fix /s.

Oh, I get it... we sell to a broad market, soak up an influx of cash, and put out another apology explanation/excuse for why it's an unfinished product.

These posts just barely better than blatant disrespect to console players.

I'm not going to say thank you. I'm calling you on this crap. You've wasted my time and severely shattered my trust with SQUAD, BLIT, Microsoft, and gaming in general.

 

Don't forget to promise me another update in a year. That'll make me feel better.