Star Wars Episode VIII (8) the Last Jedi Discussion

[tater]

50 minutes ago, kerbiloid said:

(I don't have SW right at hands, so...)

1. When they are flying along the surface of Death Star, their speed visually doesn't differ from a plane speed along the earth objects.

This is true. In combat, they actually move very slowly.

They got to the Death Star in well under 15 minutes, however, and it was in orbit around the primary planet (their base on a moon).

Call it a light-second away. 300,000km in under 15 min.

 

50 minutes ago, kerbiloid said:

2. DS diameter, iirc, 110 km, and they are flying along the surface for a minute or more.
3. When Luke dives into the tunnel, his speed doesn't change significantly, and we can watch on a display how he is moving to the DS core. With the diameter given we can get exact speed value.

... right in the way of an orbital object.

Yeah, as I said, in actual combat, they fly around like ww2 aircraft, and similar speeds. Clearly they are capable of going vastly faster, as they can cross large distances quickly.

[kerbiloid]

16 minutes ago, tater said:

This is true. In combat, they actually move very slowly.

They got to the Death Star in well under 15 minutes, however, and it was in orbit around the primary planet (their base on a moon).

Call it a light-second away. 300,000km in under 15 min.

Yes, but maybe they move/jump to the Death Star not accelerating, but, say, by local alcubierring. Then their "physical" speed stays the same.

***
Just to mention, one of three greatest space games for me (Elite, KSP, Tie Fighter)

Spoiler

 

 

[tater]

I have that and X-Wing, lol. Great fun.

They show them flying along in space. I never got the impression that they had more than just sublight and hyperspace drives.

[Vanamonde]

Isn't the subject of this thread supposed to be the recent movie? How about we get back to that and leave the other stuff for other threads, guys? 

[DDE]

4 hours ago, Vanamonde said:

Isn't the subject of this thread supposed to be the recent movie? How about we get back to that and leave the other stuff for other threads, guys? 

Hard sci-fi fans collide with SW. This was rather inevitable.

Search your feelings, you know it to be true.

[ChrisSpace]

12 hours ago, GoSlash27 said:

 

 

An example of "human > computer". Of course, not a really good example, considering he was drunk at the time...

Best,
-Slashy

 

[DAL59]

16 hours ago, tater said:

The expanse isn’t realistic, either. Since it pretends to be, I can’t watch it.

Why not?  There's brachistochrones and newtonian physics.  Its the most realistic one.  

[tater]

28 minutes ago, DAL59 said:

Why not?  There's brachistochrones and newtonian physics.  Its the most realistic one.  

I gave it another try at some point and saw an episode with some sort of "slingshot" near Jupiter that was as realistic as the least realistic Star Wars maneuvers I've ever seen. He was moving at warp speed. Something that probably should have taken many weeks took seconds. "Realistic." Right. I gave it another shot, and that's what I got in return. I'd rather watch Star Wars and not pay attention to reality.

A SF work is only as realistic as the least realistic element.

[DAL59]

3 hours ago, tater said:

I gave it another try at some point and saw an episode with some sort of "slingshot" near Jupiter that was as realistic as the least realistic Star Wars maneuvers I've ever seen. He was moving at warp speed. Something that probably should have taken many weeks took seconds. "Realistic." Right. I gave it another shot, and that's what I got in return. I'd rather watch Star Wars and not pay attention to reality.

A SF work is only as realistic as the least realistic element.

What episode was that?  

[Cheif Operations Director]

Ok guys with all due respect can we stop talking about physics and more the plot of a Episode 8 not the orbital Velocity of Xwings! It ridiculous now who cares in "proton torpedos" are possible or not this is a movie where you can levitate objects by putting out your hand ok? I don't think it really matters. Maby most of these technologies with be possible some day... maby not personally I really don't care about gravity sling shots nor the velocity of X wings or shield or anything of the such. Let's just talk about plot point please. Our thoughts predictions etc

This is the one place on the KSP Forums where we don't need to talk about Physics

With accuracy

[tater]

2 minutes ago, DAL59 said:

What episode was that?  

No idea. I watched it randomly after not watching it. I know people that like it, it just didn't grab me.

 

On topic, what's next for this arc? I think Kylo Ren really needs his own giant, spherical station, right? Because that's how SW rolls.

[DAL59]

Okay.  While I understand why some people don't like VIII, you have to admit, it has continued Star Wars' reputation of always having the best special effects and soundtrack.

 

8 minutes ago, tater said:

No idea. I watched it randomly after not watching it. I know people that like it, it just didn't grab me.

 

On topic, what's next for this arc? I think Kylo Ren really needs his own giant, spherical station, right? Because that's how SW rolls.

Found it.  Yeah, that's pretty bad.  Scott Manly actually talked about that.  It was a valid trajectory, but would take an entire year.  

Also, I think the "Ganymede mirrors agriculture" is inspired by  

[tater]

As I said above, I didn't dislike it, I watched SW Ep VIII with some interest, and preferred it to the last one (VII). It just really lacked something to me. I was never deeply engaged in it, and somehow didn't care all that much, even as I watched it... it's hard to explain. I was honestly more substantially more moved by the death of K-2SO in Rogue One than, well, anything in VIII, and Luke dies.

[Bill Phil]

3 hours ago, tater said:

I gave it another try at some point and saw an episode with some sort of "slingshot" near Jupiter that was as realistic as the least realistic Star Wars maneuvers I've ever seen. He was moving at warp speed. Something that probably should have taken many weeks took seconds. "Realistic." Right. I gave it another shot, and that's what I got in return. I'd rather watch Star Wars and not pay attention to reality.

A SF work is only as realistic as the least realistic element.

I wouldn't call a sci fi work realistic until the spaceships have radiators. 2001: ASO gets a pass since they were explicitly removed so as to not confuse the audience (though that movie has alien monoliths...). At least they were conscious of radiators.

[cubinator]

I think Kylo Ren was very conflicted after killing Snoke, and was afraid to stop being evil. I think he may take on a more neutral stand as he continues to find himself. Probably he and Rey will become closer, and blur the line a bit between Jedi and Sith as good Force and evil Force. 

I also think Chirrut in Rogue One alludes to this, as he can use the Force but is independent.

[Cheif Operations Director]

23 minutes ago, DAL59 said:

Okay.  While I understand why some people don't like VIII, you have to admit, it has continued Star Wars' reputation of always having the best special effects and soundtrack.

What soundtrack? Because all I heard were cheap songs I could write. No main theme for the first order like the empire. I don't want the best CGI I want the best plot. Same for video games. If the game is good enough in graphics for me to play it and it's the bets game around I'm fine with it. I don't want a movie I want a game. In my opinion their is more character development in the campaign of Star War Battlefront II than their is in Ep VIII. All we see is a loser Luke. Luke is the hero not some couch potato! I mean he has become a farmer. Not study the force be just farms milk and awaits his death. That's what he hated uncle Owens farm. He is worse than Vader in his depression and PTSD and Vader killed children and his wife who he killed the children for! And why because some student with "raw power" aka Disney needs a successor to being the most powerful dark side user knocking him unconscious and kills his academy? What could like have done he was injured! Luke knows this! So instead of helping fox the galaxy from the evil of the first order he retires. The first order is the Empire! He gave his life, his hand, his strength, his freind Biggs and much more to defeat and he goes and retires. If their is one this ep 4-5-6 shows us is that Luke will seek revenge he isn't like the Jedi of Old. Even if he didn't think like that then and went to Ach to he learned it then so he would be comfortable using the dark side to destroy the first order. Again Rey just gets lucky and has "Raw Power" again Disney just needs a lead charchter who is powerful. They don't develop Rey's character nor snokes, nor leias, Finn, Poe, or really anyone else accept destroy the one character left. Disney is so eager to dispense of the older characters because they actors are getting old and are scared one might die like Carrie fisher. And I understand that but they don't give anyone a heros death. From 4-6 Han went from their and scoundrel to compassion and hero and then now in 7 he is bad to his old ways because his ship got stolen... really. Chewbacca gets no freinds or backstory, Luke also follows Hans path and becomes some loser of a Island. Leia becomes some Commander of a force that will never beat the First Order without more help. We don't see any charachter development. No reason for Rey's power but luck. Oh wait their is no luck just the force oh well I guess the force lottery fell on Rey to be the most powerful Jedi ever because and be gifted Raw Strenght like no other in the history of the galaxy...

A long time ago in a galaxy far far far away...

Star Wars

Episdoe IX

The force lottery

Rey from JAKKU got lucky and it more powerful than the chosen one...

She can crash Entire planets by using the force and not be tired at all.

the extent of her RAW STRENGTH also her too kill everyone in the first order and new republic by lifting out her hand and create a new Galactic Regime...

The Galactic Kingdom of Force Weilders

The Galactic Kingdom is headed by Queen Rey who rules like a Disney Princess...

the end

The charachter development of Iden Versio and Del is better than Episode VIII. I learned more about Luke in that game then I did in Episode VIII. I would feel more sad if Iden Versio died than if Rey dies. That how bad the charachter development is

The charachter development of Iden Versio and Del is better than Episode VIII. I learned more about Luke in that game then I did in Episode VIII. I would feel more sad if Iden Versio died than if Rey dies. That how bad the charachter develolment

If anyone can name one thing we learn about a charachter that doesn't destroy what we know about the force before this episode that is significant I will be impressed 

[tater]

Lucas gutted Han’s progression in his own re-edit.

I get the criticisms on the movie, and agree with many, but blaming Disney makes no sense. Lucas (not Disney) made the prequels, which were terrible.

[Cheif Operations Director]

10 minutes ago, tater said:

Lucas gutted Han’s progression in his own re-edit.

I get the criticisms on the movie, and agree with many, but blaming Disney makes no sense. Lucas (not Disney) made the prequels, which were terrible.

What was so terrible about them. 

Other than the Padme Anakin and jar jar

18 minutes ago, tater said:

Lucas gutted Han’s progression in his own re-edit.

I get the criticisms on the movie, and agree with many, but blaming Disney makes no sense. Lucas (not Disney) made the prequels, which were terrible.

I'm mad at Disney for not making the force into a lottery system. Maby you will get lucky and win

[DDE]

1 hour ago, Cheif Operations Director said:

They don't develop Rey's character nor snokes, nor leias, Finn, Poe, or really anyone else accept destroy the one character left. Disney is so eager to dispense of the older characters because they actors are getting old and are scared one might die like Carrie fisher.

I'm afraid there's more to that. The new director is an edgelord. JJ Abrams was at least sorta trying to make a Star Wars movie; TLJ gleefully rips the franchise apart, leaving giant skidmarks in the process. Rey not being a Skywalker guts Lucas's basic narrative of a virtuous aristocracy, for example.

[Cheif Operations Director]

3 minutes ago, DDE said:

I'm afraid there's more to that. The new director is an edgelord. JJ Abrams was at least sorta trying to make a Star Wars movie; TLJ gleefully rips the franchise apart, leaving giant skidmarks in the process. Rey not being a Skywalker guts Lucas's basic narrative of a virtuous aristocracy, for example.

Again I don't care if Rey is that powerful but I want a reason for her power

[tater]

42 minutes ago, Cheif Operations Director said:

What was so terrible about them. 

Other than the Padme Anakin and jar jar

Everything. Characterization, for one.

Quote

I'm mad at Disney for not making the force into a lottery system. Maby you will get lucky and win

No, Lucas did that with his mitoclorian (sp?) nonsense. Some people have more force than others.

That's fine, I guess, but if you do that, follow through with story. Some beings are then objectively better than others. Substantially better. In the Lucas universe, there are wizards. They can be improved via going to Hogwarts (training), but they are none the less wizards, and vs muggles, muggles lose, every time. That's the Lucas universe, and both sides are therefore bad, IMO. Instead of good vs evil, it should shade things more, since the Rebellion is only one bad wizard away from being the Empire by a different name---a civilization run by the tiny minority who are wizards.

The first movie mentioned the Force as somethng more democratic. Something everywhere. It gave the impression that everyone has it, or at least implied that. Han ddin't have it because he's a skeptic, not because he literally didn't have it.

15 minutes ago, DDE said:

I'm afraid there's more to that. The new director is an edgelord. JJ Abrams was at least sorta trying to make a Star Wars movie; TLJ gleefully rips the franchise apart, leaving giant skidmarks in the process. Rey not being a Skywalker guts Lucas's basic narrative of a virtuous aristocracy, for example.

More importantly, he's not a character anymore. Yeah, he'll be like Ben and Yoda, a ghost... guess his arc continues with him as a ghost. Course I always assumed the ghosts were more like internal monologue rather than actual ghosts. No more Skywalkers, except a possible uncanny valley Leia.

Just read a wiki page on the stupid force organisms Lucas willed into being. (barfy kid at home behind me, least he finished his LEGO Saturn V first!)

11 minutes ago, Cheif Operations Director said:

Again I don't care if Rey is that powerful but I want a reason for her power

She got infected with a midclorian. There you go, she now has the force. Maybe a million of them built codos in her, now she's super powerful. Thanks, George!

Edited December 29, 2017 by tater

[Cheif Operations Director]

1 minute ago, tater said:

Everything. Characterization, for one.

No, Lucas did that with his mitoclorian (sp?) nonsense. Some people have more force than others.

That's fine, but if you do that, follow through with story. Some being are then objectively better than others. Substantially better. In the Lucas universe, there are wizards. They can be improved via going to Hogwarts, but they are none the less wizards, and vs muggles, muggles lose, every time. That's the Lucas universe, and both sides are therefore bad, IMO. Instead of good vs evil, it should shade things more, since the Rebellion is only one bad wizard away from being the Empire by a different name---a civilization run by the tiny minority who are wizards.

The first movie mentioned the Force as somethng more democratic. Something everywhere. It gave the impression that everyone has it, or at least implied that. Han ddin't have it because he's a skeptic, not because he literally didn't have it.

Yes but mitoclorians need training! Again I don't care if she is that powerful by episode IX but see is that powerful at VII. I'm not saying it's not possible in Star Wars but I mean it's 1 in a thousands of trillions Chance. I mean Anakin needed training right? He had a prophecy and the highest amount of mitoclorians ever. He wasn't just lucky he was the chosen one. So why is Rey this powerful for no reason she isn't the chosen one so why would the force let her be that powerful. If she can split a cliff down the middle why just not split kylo in half? My point is the force wouldn't let her be that powerful. Why doesn't she just kill Anakin in the force and take the place as the chosen one? BECAUSE SHE ISNT! 

Yes the force is a lottery but not the power ball. You can win up to so many mitoclorians. You can't win a billion just maby a couple hundred or thousand. Their like the convenience store sratch tickets only award up to some much. It isn't some powerball where you can hit a jackpot. The only time you get the jackpot is if you have a prophecy like Anakin.

I mean mace winds had less mitoclorians but could beat Anakin in Ep III why because he had training and could beat him because he MASTERED Vapad. Anakin was untrained in it so he would have lost. So why does Rey who is just a nobody get that lucky in such a crucial time in the galaxy she wasn't born during stability but unrest. I mean it's like she couldn't have been born during a more crucial time to the galaxy with that much power. It's 1 in a thousand times trillion chance of her power let alone the time she was born. No body is that lucky. 

[tater]

Wookipedia has nothing about training being required. It has a quote from Liam Neeson's character (not memorable enough for me to ever have known his name) saying that someone (Anakin, I presume) had the highest concentration of them he had ever heard of.

She grows up in isolation... maybe she meditated a lot in her spare time, and somehow that mindfulness made her amenable to easy learning. Handwaving Rey's power is pretty trivial given the very low bar of disbelief suspension required to find SW story lines compelling.

I know my kids would argue many of my ideas about this. My son watched the Clone Wars, etc. I'm much less invested in SW even though it was a very important film to me as an 11 YO kid. At that time I didn't dissect it, I just loved it. As I read more and more SF, I cherry picked stuff I liked in SW, and chucked out the rest (I used elements of SW as inspirations for Traveller RPG games back in the day).

Anyone who hasn't watched the redlettermedia stuff on the SW prequels really should, they are simultaneously trenchant, and hilarious.

[PakledHostage]

 

56 minutes ago, Cheif Operations Director said:

What was so terrible about them. 

Other than the Padme Anakin and jar jar

 

Mitoclorians

Schloky plots

etc...

Edited December 29, 2017 by PakledHostage
Spelling

[Cheif Operations Director]

2 minutes ago, tater said:

Wookipedia has nothing about training being required. It has a quote from Liam Neeson's character (not memorable enough for me to ever have known his name) saying that someone (Anakin, I presume) had the highest concentration of them he had ever heard of.

She grows up in isolation... maybe she meditated a lot in her spare time, and somehow that mindfulness made her amenable to easy learning. Handwaving Rey's power is pretty trivial given the very low bar of disbelief suspension required to find SW story lines compelling.

I know my kids would argue many of my ideas about this. My son watched the Clone Wars, etc. I'm much less invested in SW even though it was a very important film to me as an 11 YO kid. At that time I didn't dissect it, I just loved it. As I read more and more SF, I cherry picked stuff I liked in SW, and chucked out the rest (I used elements of SW as inspirations for Traveller RPG games back in the day).

Anyone who hasn't watched the redlettermedia stuff on the SW prequels really should, they are simultaneously trenchant, and hilarious.

Yes exactly Anakin had the highest count ONLY BECAUSE HE WAS THE CHOSEN ONE!

Rey is a nobody and you can't get infected with a mitoclorians