Star Wars Episode VIII (8) the Last Jedi Discussion

[GoSlash27]

4 hours ago, DDE said:

I doubt it. TLJ takes joy in utterly tearing apart every franchise convention, such as SW being a family drama. It fits with their other actions for Rey to actually be a nobody.

Yes, in the process, they jettison every last bit of foreshadowing in TFA.

DDE,

 They may well have done this, but if so it's a huge "screw you" to the viewer. It'd be like having the big Luke reveal at the end of VII and then not having him appear at all in VIII. The foreshadowing is a bit too prominent and detailed for them to just hand- wave it away like that.

Happy New Year,
-Slashy

[Cheif Operations Director]

9 hours ago, MiffedStarfish said:

My personal theory for hyperspace tracking is that they’re doing it through an implant in Finn. It makes sense as the resistance only started being tracked as Finn was aboard, while also clearing up a discrepancy in that tracking through hyperspace has been said to be impossible many times before, the only way of doing it was to attach a tracker to the ship. It also seems like implanting tech into the heads of their troops in childhood would be a very First Order thing to do. The very technology is stated in the film as a “cloaked binary beacon”, which would explain how the resistance didn’t find it while healing Finn.

The inquisitior used a Hyper Space tracker 

7 hours ago, DAL59 said:

Homeworld.  

A Star Wars game.

On console or Mobile

[DAL59]

23 minutes ago, Cheif Operations Director said:

A Star Wars game.

There's a star wars mod.

 

[Bill Phil]

14 hours ago, DAL59 said:

Homeworld.  

Star Wars: Empire at War

[MiffedStarfish]

12 hours ago, Cheif Operations Director said:

The inquisitior used a Hyper Space tracker 

I know. Just it was played in the film as something more than a tracker, and I think some ships had sensors which catalogued the total mass of the ship and compared it to normal, therefore revealing and trackers. I think Slave 1 was upgraded to do this.

[Cheif Operations Director]

On 12/31/2017 at 5:59 PM, DAL59 said:

There's a star wars mod.

 

I mean all emersive. Not just Fire! Like conectrate fire here. Interdictor cruiser, orbital bombardment with some ground assault. Like a Star Wars General/Adirmal thing. Mainly focused in space but some on ground like aerial objectives for ground like destroy sheild generator launch TIE. Etc

[GoSlash27]

Kinda sad, but after getting served this steaming pile of a movie and hearing about all the production problems with Solo.... I think I'll just wait for the audience reviews before going to see it.

Looking forward to Ready Player One tho'
-Slashy

[Red Shirt]

Read a few pages of reviews on RT. Seems they either really enjoyed the movie or, like here, had major issues with the movie. So I started polling folks locally that have seen it. They unanimously loved it. When I asked about the controversy they had a deer in the headlight look, meaning they had no idea. One of my friends who actually was aware of the reviews told me he goes to escape and he is not enough of a fanboy to let the problems stop him from enjoying. I still haven't seen it so it remains to be seen which side of the fence I'll land. 

[StrandedonEarth]

12 hours ago, Red Shirt said:

One of my friends who actually was aware of the reviews told me he goes to escape and he is not enough of a fanboy to let the problems stop him from enjoying.

I think I'm more like that. I really try hard not to think about whatever TV show or movie I'm watching, because then it just falls apart. I want to just sit back and enjoy the show, suspending disbelief and, if necessary, thought. Of course, some shows totally wallop you over the head with plot holes that can be impossible to ignore.

So as a spectacle, I'd say it was pretty good, despite Rose. But no, it doesn't bear too much thinking about, or it falls apart like the sand around a Sarlacc's mouth.

[Cheif Operations Director]

1 minute ago, StrandedonEarth said:

I think I'm more like that. I really try hard not to think about whatever TV show or movie I'm watching, because then it just falls apart. I want to just sit back and enjoy the show, suspending disbelief and, if necessary, thought. Of course, some shows totally wallop you over the head with plot holes that can be impossible to ignore.

So as a spectacle, I'd say it was pretty good, despite Rose. But no, it doesn't bear too much thinking about, or it falls apart like the sand around a Sarlacc's mouth.

Ok he is what annoys me Star Wars isn't suppose to be like that... Disney authorises books about single charachters. It's expansive and filled with lore. It can't have plot holes that big 

[KSK]

On ‎31‎/‎12‎/‎2017 at 4:23 AM, Cheif Operations Director said:

I don't care about her ancestory. But I just want a reason for her power.

The Force seeks balance. That's why it created Anakin. Unfortunately the Jedi were rather too hung up on their prophecy of a Chosen One bringing balance to the Force without really considering that the Force was out of balance in favor of the Light Side. Ooops.

As stated by Luke in The Last Jedi, for a while there was balance.  A powerful Jedi (himself) balanced out by a powerful Dark side user (Snoke). Then Ben Solo was turned by Snoke becoming Kylo Ren and putting the Force out of balance again. Rey was gifted with her power by the Force itself, as a counterbalance to Kylo Ren. In fact you might almost say that the Force awakened through Rey.

You can see how evenly they're matched in the Force arm-wrestling  lightsaber breaking scene.

Alternative but similar explanation - Rey was a counter to both the rise of Kylo Ren as a Dark Force user and Luke shutting himself away from the Force. For that matter I'm willing to bet that Snoke's origin story is something similar - he emerged as a Dark side counterbalance to Luke.

Yeah, it's all a bit deus ex machina but at least it's consistent with Anakin's backstory.

 

 

 

[Cheif Operations Director]

11 minutes ago, KSK said:

The Force seeks balance. That's why it created Anakin. Unfortunately the Jedi were rather too hung up on their prophecy of a Chosen One bringing balance to the Force without really considering that the Force was out of balance in favor of the Light Side. Ooops.

As stated by Luke in The Last Jedi, for a while there was balance.  A powerful Jedi (himself) balanced out by a powerful Dark side user (Snoke). Then Ben Solo was turned by Snoke becoming Kylo Ren and putting the Force out of balance again. Rey was gifted with her power by the Force itself, as a counterbalance to Kylo Ren. In fact you might almost say that the Force awakened through Rey.

You can see how evenly they're matched in the Force arm-wrestling  lightsaber breaking scene.

Alternative but similar explanation - Rey was a counter to both the rise of Kylo Ren as a Dark Force user and Luke shutting himself away from the Force. For that matter I'm willing to bet that Snoke's origin story is something similar - he emerged as a Dark side counterbalance to Luke.

Yeah, it's all a bit deus ex machina but at least it's consistent with Anakin's backstory.

 

 

 

If she is a counter fine... but she still needs to be trained. Again I don't care for her power level as long as she is actually trained.

[KSK]

9 hours ago, Cheif Operations Director said:

Ok he is what annoys me Star Wars isn't suppose to be like that... Disney authorises books about single charachters. It's expansive and filled with lore. It can't have plot holes that big 

Sure it can. Star Wars was a mashup homage to all the kinds of movies that George Lucas liked. It's entirely based on Rule of Cool and almost nothing about it makes much sense once you look beneath the surface spectacle. That doesn't matter - in the end it's a simple story of the Good Space Guys vs the Bad Space Guys, neither of whom are given much if any backstory because neither of them really need one.

It's why the original trilogy worked so well and (one reason) why the prequel trilogy was so lackluster. They were trying to retrofit some somewhat plausible background onto a set of films that were never intended to have one and never written with one in mind.

 

[Cheif Operations Director]

2 minutes ago, KSK said:

Sure it can. Star Wars was a mashup homage to all the kinds of movies that George Lucas liked. It's entirely based on Rule of Cool and almost nothing about it makes much sense once you look beneath the surface spectacle. That doesn't matter - in the end it's a simple story of the Good Space Guys vs the Bad Space Guys, neither of whom are given much if any backstory because neither of them really need one.

It's why the original trilogy worked so well and (one reason) why the prequel trilogy was so lackluster. They were trying to retrofit some somewhat plausible background onto a set of films that were never intended to have one and never written with one in mind.

 

Yes that's why they created the clone wars and rebels!

[KSK]

28 minutes ago, Cheif Operations Director said:

If she is a counter fine... but she still needs to be trained. Again I don't care for her power level as long as she is actually trained.

No - she really doesn't.

When we're introduced to Anakin, he's clearly strong in the Force (can't remember if it's in the book or the film but Qui-Gonn outright states that he (Anakin) must have Jedi reflexes if he can pilot Pods). It's equally clear that he hasn't received any training at that point.

Edit:  We're also told in the film that Anakin has been piloting Pods for some time. So his Jedi reflexes aren't some flash of Force power in response to a threat, as seen when Luke summons his lightsaber to free himself from the ice in Episode V.

Luke received a bare minimum of training, certainly compared to the Old Republic Jedi who were inducted into the Order for training from early childhood. We also know that he rushed off to face Vader without completing his training - and then returns to Yoda in Episode VI to complete it, only to be told that he knows all he needs to know. So he gained a lot of strength (or at least ability) in the Force (enough to beat Vader when they fought again) based on what? It sure wasn't training.

Rey is just continuing that theme. Strong in the Force without training (as seen previously with Anakin), turns into a major Force user with minimal training (as seen previously with Luke). You might not like it but it's entirely consistent with everything we've seen so far in the films.

Edited January 3, 2018 by KSK

[MrWalrus123]

I'm just glad it wasn't too much like episode 5. The trailer made it seem like that it was going to be a clone of episode 5, similar to how episode 7 was based off of episode 4.

Edited January 3, 2018 by MrWalrus123

[Cheif Operations Director]

4 hours ago, KSK said:

No - she really doesn't.

When we're introduced to Anakin, he's clearly strong in the Force (can't remember if it's in the book or the film but Qui-Gonn outright states that he (Anakin) must have Jedi reflexes if he can pilot Pods). It's equally clear that he hasn't received any training at that point.

Edit:  We're also told in the film that Anakin has been piloting Pods for some time. So his Jedi reflexes aren't some flash of Force power in response to a threat, as seen when Luke summons his lightsaber to free himself from the ice in Episode V.

Luke received a bare minimum of training, certainly compared to the Old Republic Jedi who were inducted into the Order for training from early childhood. We also know that he rushed off to face Vader without completing his training - and then returns to Yoda in Episode VI to complete it, only to be told that he knows all he needs to know. So he gained a lot of strength (or at least ability) in the Force (enough to beat Vader when they fought again) based on what? It sure wasn't training.

Rey is just continuing that theme. Strong in the Force without training (as seen previously with Anakin), turns into a major Force user with minimal training (as seen previously with Luke). You might not like it but it's entirely consistent with everything we've seen so far in the films.

They had a purpose in the force... Rey has none. Are you suggesting each pilot is force sensitive? So what some people are just naturals at things podracing is possible and is ENHANCED by the force. Luke built his own lightsaber so he obviously did more training that we saw in the movies. Yes luke does it after what a minute or two? Again Hoth wasnt built overnight. So he most likly trained then as well. What if Luke just grabbed the lightsaber in Ep IV and dueled vader and choped off part of his mask... Would you be fine with that? Thats whats Rey does. Its unnatural. Again who would win the professional fencer or the 1 month in fencer? Luke trained of the falcon... Rey didn't. I mean in Ep VIII She is still training with swinging the sword around as seen with the rock. She just beat Kylo Ren! It contradicts! Having a hobby and being good at it and then it being enhanced by the force is different that a battle using force powers.

Im decent at model rocketry its a hobby. Doesnt mean im a Rocket Scientist.

[DDE]

4 hours ago, Cheif Operations Director said:

If she is a counter fine... but she still needs to be trained. Again I don't care for her power level as long as she is actually trained.

Sadly it's internally consistent with that theory that she wouldn't need any training. To my mind, she's actually very little like Anakin. Heck, the old canon even wrote him off as a Sith machination gone wrong, and by your logic, he's a born Sith; Rey is a whole different surprise package, and if the Force is spontaneously acquiring agency through her, there is absolutely no limit how far she'll get Sued.

[KSK]

46 minutes ago, Cheif Operations Director said:

They had a purpose in the force... Rey has none.

As I mentioned in my earlier post - she has a plausible purpose in the Force as a Light side counter to Kylo.

46 minutes ago, Cheif Operations Director said:

Are you suggesting each pilot is force sensitive?

No. I'm using a line from Episode 1.

46 minutes ago, Cheif Operations Director said:

Luke built his own lightsaber so he obviously did more training

Given that we never see him build it and we don't know where he learned to build it or who (unlikely) he learned from, this isn't obvious at all.

46 minutes ago, Cheif Operations Director said:

Again who would win the professional fencer or the 1 month in fencer?

Irrelevant. From Episode 4 - the Force guides your actions but also obeys your commands. Any analogy between real world swordplay (or any other physical ability for that matter) and a Force user equivalent is suspect for that reason alone.

46 minutes ago, Cheif Operations Director said:

Luke trained of the falcon

Luke was shown he could use the Force. To quote the film - he took his first step into a larger world. It was an important first step but that's about it. Most of Luke's training in Episodes IV and V was basically teaching him to get past his self-doubt, trust his feelings and trust in the Force. Rey had almost exactly the opposite problem - the Force was with her whether she liked it or not.

Edited January 3, 2018 by KSK

[kerbiloid]

39 minutes ago, Cheif Operations Director said:

They had a purpose in the force... Rey has none.

Everybody had a purpose in The Ring... Frodo had none.

That's why he was chosen by a white-bearded old hippy to carry The Ring to the volcano.
There he had met the speaking birds, lost the ring, and his finger was bitten off by a naked midget with pale skin.

So.
 

Spoiler

white-bearded old hippy

(A? The?) Ring


speaking (or at least looking so) birds

She would beware of volcanoes...

... and pale naked midgets

 

28 minutes ago, KSK said:

Given that we never see him build it and we don't know where he learned to build it or who (unlikely) he learned from, this isn't obvious at all.

Practice.

Spoiler

 

[MiffedStarfish]

1 hour ago, KSK said:

Luke built his own lightsaber so he obviously did more training

He copy pasted it from obi wan’s, using instructions in his journal.

[KSK]

On 1/2/2018 at 11:10 AM, GoSlash27 said:

Kinda sad, but after getting served this steaming pile of a movie and hearing about all the production problems with Solo.... I think I'll just wait for the audience reviews before going to see it.

Looking forward to Ready Player One tho'
-Slashy

Oof - now there's a film that I'll be waiting for the reviews of before going to see it. The bombardment of 80s references was fun for a while but overall I didn't think much of the book. Too much of the irritating aspects of geek culture for my tastes and I thought the OASIS was wasted as a giant MMO. 

A younger, WoW playing me would probably have enjoyed it a lot more though.

Edited January 3, 2018 by KSK

[Cheif Operations Director]

I wanted a reason for her power. I didn't get one. She is more powerful than the chosen one! Just because? I just want a reason. Anakin was superior to Obi Wan and who One. The better trained. The main problem we see with most new Jedi is the lack of skill BECUASE of the lack of dicipline. Now it's not discipline and tons of skill what's left to explore ir Rey's charachter Development OTHER THAN LORE. By lore I mean parents, Jakku, what ever. Even if she was the daughter of luke I would be more forgiving but still mad that she was that powerful with no training. She just needed training and Disney gave us none. Why does Rey get to be more powerful than anyone else in all of Star Wars. Imagine Rey when she is trained. She could implode a small moon... This would be fine if she was the chosen one BUT SHE ISNT she is a nobody charachter who is Force sensitive. That level of force sensitivity is reserved for special force weilders like Bendu, Anakin, and the Mortis Charachters of SWCW. Bendu is pretty much a rock so... I would throw Luke in their too but he is he son of the chosen one so it's understandable. I want a reason we got none! I wanted her just to be trained! Nope. I'm only asking for a scene in the force awakens showing her training or something she just can't self teach! Come on. Why now why wasn't she born during the Republic Era. If she is so powerful why wasn't she the chosen one. Ehh! Why now in the story of Star Wars. The only reason is that Disney wants her to be a Hyper powerful person. With no explanation. No training. No linage which isn't even nessicary just a nice way to explain something. No prophecy. No Discipline. That's it. Just a Disney Princess with a lightsaber. No reason for her power. It's frustrating. All other Jedi are force sensitive but it only comes out in training and they can get bested by Clones with Guns. The select few were lucky, extremely powerful like Yoda, Well trained Like Obi Wan... Or the chosen one so yea. Might I remind you all of those Charachters have been trained for DECADES. Yoda almost for a millennium. Mace used his high skill and aggressive nature to counter Palpatine with Vapad. He trained specifically in it. Now Rey beats Kylo, the long time student of Snoke who obviously is a Palpatine level charachter of not more. Sure Snoke paralyzed Rey but she was dumb in her decisions and honestly Kylo did it too in the force awakens. And they he turns around and beats him. These are force powers YODA DIDNT KNOW! It truly is the old trilogy just bigger and better and more modern.

That's the problem

 

I just want a reason that is all. Just a sentence that makes sense saying why.

[Cheif Operations Director]

[snip]

Tell me how Rey fits into this universe of Star Wars without destroying the need for Force Users to be destroyed... ONE EXAMPLE! 

[snip]

Yoda was WELL TRAINED so he could wield a lightsaber well

Edited January 4, 2018 by Snark
Redacted by moderator

[harrisjosh2711]

[snip]

Throughout the starwars series we see several of the most talented Jedi in the universe lose in battle due to their lack of training. First would be when Luke lost his hand to Darth Vader. The Second when Anakin lost, practically his life, to Obi-Wan Kenobi. When Qui Wan Ginn and Obi-won face darth maul he essentially dominates both of them before killing Qui Wan Ginn and barley falling to Obi-won. Both Anaikin and Obi-won lose to count Dooku only having their lives saved when Yoda arrived (Count Dooku escapes with his life) Then we get the Ren chick who has absolutely no training go super saiyan jedi and wipes out a syth all by her self...... Come on! The dark side has more power than the light side. The only jedi I can recall having the power to use force lighting was Yoda. All the syth have that power.- This is the old movies.

In the new movie we have Ren who lord knows isn't in any danger of loosing her life. She can kill a syth who has been groomed to assume the empire in her sleep having never so much as touched a light saber before.

[snip]

Everyone knows Ren is going to win. I honestly wonder if JJ Abrams has ever even seen the old star wars. Because what we have now is a joke. If you can explain to me how this Ren stuff makes sense in accordance with the old movies please do.

[snip]

Edited January 4, 2018 by Snark
Redacted by moderator