KSP Interstellar Extended Support Thread

[kerbnub]

9 hours ago, wkwied said:

@kerbnub

 

@kerbnub

I'm trying to replicate this, might I ask if you could upload this craft to kerbalx?

https://kerbalx.com/Kerbnub/KSPIE-refueling-warp-SSTO-proof-of-concept

Edit: idk why it says TesserWreck's Fuel Switch on the mod list, that should be Interstellar Fuel Switch.

Ironically in looking at this again, I found a bug that kind of ruins it. Apparently the engine precooler bugs the ISRU menu. It can SSTO from Kerbin fine without the precooler, but if you try on Eve you'll overheat and explode. Or you could keep it and just refuel with the refrigerator; it'll just take a looong time :p

 

Does anyone else get the same or is it just me?

@Freethinker I think if you build any craft with an engine pre-cooler, it will break the KSPIE ISRU menus on the ones that can do the regolith process. To replicate, just build a craft with a command pod, engine precooler, and any of the KSPIE ISRUs that can do the regolith process, and try to open the ISRU menu. I get this: 

Other ISRU types, like the ISRU refrigerator or electrolyzer, are not affected. I'm running the latest KSPIE on KSP 1.6.1.

Edited May 26, 2019 by kerbnub

[FreeThinker]

4 hours ago, khrist0ff said:

I have a lot of electricity in my station and im 100% sure its enough to transmit all the science. Also i dont know if this could be related to the issue but there's a new button i had not seen before called "deploy experiment", when i press it, an error comes up saying "Science lab experiments require a scientist, but doesnt specify where, looks like this module isn't working properly". Btw, im in the newest version of this mod and i havent had this kind of problem before, im sure the antenna is working properly and my electricity is enough ( 3 Super Lithium batteries + solar panels) the problem here is, when i press the "transmit science" button it gets to the 100% mark and even shows the message saying that its done transmitting, but doesnt give me any science points even though the lab is full, help me please.

The problem should be fixed with the latest release where the experiment has been removed. I will provably add the experiment to a different part more suitable for it.

[FreeThinker]

1 hour ago, kerbnub said:

https://kerbalx.com/Kerbnub/KSPIE-refueling-warp-SSTO-proof-of-concept

Edit: idk why it says TesserWreck's Fuel Switch on the mod list, that should be Interstellar Fuel Switch.

Ironically in looking at this again, I found a bug that kind of ruins it. Apparently the engine precooler bugs the ISRU menu. It can SSTO from Kerbin fine without the precooler, but if you try on Eve you'll overheat and explode. Or you could keep it and just refuel with the refrigerator; it'll just take a looong time :p

 

Does anyone else get the same or is it just me?

@Freethinker I think if you build any craft with an engine pre-cooler, it will break the KSPIE ISRU menus on the ones that can do the regolith process. To replicate, just build a craft with a command pod, engine precooler, and any of the KSPIE ISRUs that can do the regolith process, and try to open the ISRU menu. I get this: 

Other ISRU types, like the ISRU refrigerator or electrolyzer, are not affected. I'm running the latest KSPIE on KSP 1.6.1.

I tried to replicate with the latest 1.21.7 in 1.7

It appears to be functioning correctly. So somehing else must be wong. Do you see any KSPIE related exceptions in the log?

[kerbnub]

5 hours ago, FreeThinker said:

I tried to replicate with the latest 1.21.7 in 1.7

It appears to be functioning correctly. So somehing else must be wong. Do you see any KSPIE related exceptions in the log?

yeah I'm getting a lot of 

[EXC 07:06:02.415] NullReferenceException: Object reference not set to an instance of an object
	FNPlugin.AtmosphericIntake.get_IntakeEnabled ()
	FNPlugin.Refinery.SeawaterExtractor.GetTotalLiquidScoopedPerSecond ()
	FNPlugin.Refinery.SeawaterExtractor.IsThereAnyLiquid ()
	FNPlugin.Refinery.SeawaterExtractor.HasActivityRequirements ()
	FNPlugin.Refinery.InterstellarRefineryController.<Window>b__a (IRefineryActivity act)
	System.Collections.Generic.List`1[FNPlugin.Refinery.IRefineryActivity].ForEach (System.Action`1 action)
	FNPlugin.Refinery.InterstellarRefineryController.Window (Int32 window)
	UnityEngine.GUILayout+LayoutedWindow.DoWindow (Int32 windowID)
	UnityEngine.GUI.CallWindowDelegate (UnityEngine.WindowFunction func, Int32 id, Int32 instanceID, UnityEngine.GUISkin _skin, Int32 forceRect, Single width, Single height, UnityEngine.GUIStyle style)

spam when I try to open that window

[wkwied]

4 hours ago, FreeThinker said:

I tried to replicate with the latest 1.21.7 in 1.7

It appears to be functioning correctly. So somehing else must be wong. Do you see any KSPIE related exceptions in the log?

I can also replicate this. I receive the same error above.

I'm running 1.7.0.2483 with the latest version of KSPIE

[FreeThinker]

5 hours ago, kerbnub said:

yeah I'm getting a lot of 

[EXC 07:06:02.415] NullReferenceException: Object reference not set to an instance of an object
	FNPlugin.AtmosphericIntake.get_IntakeEnabled ()
	FNPlugin.Refinery.SeawaterExtractor.GetTotalLiquidScoopedPerSecond ()
	FNPlugin.Refinery.SeawaterExtractor.IsThereAnyLiquid ()
	FNPlugin.Refinery.SeawaterExtractor.HasActivityRequirements ()
	FNPlugin.Refinery.InterstellarRefineryController.<Window>b__a (IRefineryActivity act)
	System.Collections.Generic.List`1[FNPlugin.Refinery.IRefineryActivity].ForEach (System.Action`1 action)
	FNPlugin.Refinery.InterstellarRefineryController.Window (Int32 window)
	UnityEngine.GUILayout+LayoutedWindow.DoWindow (Int32 windowID)
	UnityEngine.GUI.CallWindowDelegate (UnityEngine.WindowFunction func, Int32 id, Int32 instanceID, UnityEngine.GUISkin _skin, Int32 forceRect, Single width, Single height, UnityEngine.GUIStyle style)

spam when I try to open that window

Interesting exception. That tells me your precoller is missing a ModuleResourceIntake (or non stock module inheriting from it), which the AtmosphericIntake assumes is present. Somehow this partmodule has been removed, I'm going to assume another Mod has removed it (and replaced it with something else). It would be intresting to know  which is sabotaging KSPIE and I can write MM script to bypass the problem as I do not realy require ModuleResourceIntake, I only readout certain properties.

Edited May 26, 2019 by FreeThinker

[kerbnub]

1 hour ago, FreeThinker said:

Interesting exception. That tells me your preecoller is missing a ModuleResourceIntake (or non stock module inheriting from it), which the AtmosphericIntake assumes is present. Somehow this partmodule has been removed, I'm going to assume another Mod has removed it (and replaced it with something else). It would be intresting to know  which is sabotaging KSPIE and I can write MM script to bypass the problem as I do not ModuleResourceIntake, I only readout certain properties.

My install wasn't totally bare bones; i'll try with just KSPIE, IFS and its dependencies when I get home.

[flyguybc]

Be interesting to compare both your mod lists since you are both having the issue. Might help y’all narrow it down. 

[wkwied]

I've highlighted the folders included in the KSPIE zip

[Turbo Ben]

@FreeThinker

Me again I'm afraid.

I'm just venturing into nuclear reactors. I have a small craft I'm testing for use as a Laythe/Tylo lander. I have a pebble bed reactor with a thermal power generator attached and using four 1.25m aerospikes on radial tanks. This may be my inexperience with these components, but I've noticed a couple of things.

First, the aerospikes are producing more thrust when I scale them down from 2.5m (145KN) to 1.25m (581KN). It's not a problem, obviously the engines are lighter at 1.25m, but I was just wondering if this was correct? Is it because there is not enough thermal energy to run all four properly when they are at 2.5m?

Second, the mass of the thermal generator is 6t until I connect it to the reactor. It then goes up to 18t which doesn't change if I scale down the thermal generator. If I remove the reactor, or place the generator so it is not directly connected to the reactor, it goes back down to 6t, though obviously it doesn't work then. The craft is 125t fully fueled, so an extra 12t appearing from seemingly nowhere is affecting it's performance quite a lot.

I'm still using 1.21.5 so apologies if this has already been fixed.

Lastly, can anyone advise on radiators? I used curved graphite radiators which work really well in atmosphere, but are are not good enough in space. Which radiators would work best outside the atmosphere? They need to be fairly compact as this is a small craft.

Thanks

 

[flyguybc]

To the Thermal engine question yes. At least as far as my testing has shown. I had a similar problem with my bigger ssto. It has to do with too many engines dissipates how much power it can give you. 

 

Radiators. You need the black graphene ones. If you are doing a career playthrough dedicate some science to getting higher down the heat tree to get some of the more useful ones. There are radiator tail find for example. Remember you can scale them smaller in most cases. Also remember when you are just doing thermal engine you won’t need THAT many radiators in space.  So you don’t necessarily have to get heat in the green in that case.

 

Just keep testing. It’s a little rough figuring it out but once you get it feels immensely rewarding. 

[Drtyhppy2]

2 hours ago, Turbo Ben said:

@FreeThinker

Me again I'm afraid.

I'm just venturing into nuclear reactors. I have a small craft I'm testing for use as a Laythe/Tylo lander. I have a pebble bed reactor with a thermal power generator attached and using four 1.25m aerospikes on radial tanks. This may be my inexperience with these components, but I've noticed a couple of things.

First, the aerospikes are producing more thrust when I scale them down from 2.5m (145KN) to 1.25m (581KN). It's not a problem, obviously the engines are lighter at 1.25m, but I was just wondering if this was correct? Is it because there is not enough thermal energy to run all four properly when they are at 2.5m?

Second, the mass of the thermal generator is 6t until I connect it to the reactor. It then goes up to 18t which doesn't change if I scale down the thermal generator. If I remove the reactor, or place the generator so it is not directly connected to the reactor, it goes back down to 6t, though obviously it doesn't work then. The craft is 125t fully fueled, so an extra 12t appearing from seemingly nowhere is affecting it's performance quite a lot.

I'm still using 1.21.5 so apologies if this has already been fixed.

Lastly, can anyone advise on radiators? I used curved graphite radiators which work really well in atmosphere, but are are not good enough in space. Which radiators would work best outside the atmosphere? They need to be fairly compact as this is a small craft.

Thanks

 

I’d also like to add that the thermal generator’s mass scales with the reactor it’s attached to (the more powerful the reactor the heavier the generator) that’s why it’s mass increases as soon as you attach it. 

Edited May 26, 2019 by Drtyhppy2
Autocorrect’d

[Turbo Ben]

Thanks for the info guys, much appreciated.

Had a bit of time to experiment and run some tests on my craft now, and it's working pretty well. Over 7000dv which should be enough for Tylo and Laythe.

Think I'll ditch the generator, it's a bit overkill for what I need and the mass penalty is too much. Was hoping it would soak away some of the heat from the reactor, but I'm getting my head around radiators a bit now. Didn't realise they work better as they get hotter, so I'm levelling off at about 50% overheat on the reactor. Also didn't realise the reactor reduces output if the engines aren't running, so don't need 4.5GW of cooling! With another node on the tech tree I should be good.

[wkwied]

A question - What does the 'Max secondary power usage', 'electric priority', and 'electric power control' options on several reactors do?

In my testing, I haven't seen any change in any kind of output by changing these options

[khrist0ff]

19 hours ago, FreeThinker said:

The problem should be fixed with the latest release where the experiment has been removed. I will provably add the experiment to a different part more suitable for it.

Thanks for the response. Also, i have encountered another bug which i'm not sure if it's caused by the mod itself, but the thermal ramjet nozzle and the thermal turbojets appear to have a "NaN" TWR, with no Delta-V being detected whatsoever, when i launch a vessel with these engines and activate them, the game becomes really glitchy and every object turns transparent. the only solution i could find to this was to restart the game. its also important to mention that this doesn't happen to the Krusader thermal rocket engine. Here are some images of the issue:  https://imgur.com/a/uDgVJLf 

here's a ksp.log line that could be useful:

[LOG 21:29:44.450] Look rotation viewing vector is zero
[ERR 21:29:44.450] [KSPI]: Error FixedUpdate Value NaN is greater than Decimal.MaxValue or less than Decimal.MinValue Source: mscorlib Stack trace:   at System.Decimal..ctor (Single value) [0x00000] in <filename unknown>:0 
  at System.Decimal.op_Explicit (Single value) [0x00000] in <filename unknown>:0 
  at FNPlugin.ThermalNozzleController.FixedUpdate () [0x00000] in <filename unknown>:0 
  

 

Aside from that and the science lab bug, i haven't had any kind of issues and i consider this mod as my favourite one, being the real-life-based concepts characteristic what i like about it so much. Keep up the good work and i'll keep you informed if i ever encounter any kind of bug in the future.

Edited May 27, 2019 by khrist0ff

[kerbnub]

Well, I tried a barebones version and can't get the ISRU to work right 

Same error. KSP 1.6.1.

KSPIE 1.20.20.3 to be precise (latest 1.6.1 version)

15 hours ago, khrist0ff said:

Thanks for the response. Also, i have encountered another bug which i'm not sure if it's caused by the mod itself, but the thermal ramjet nozzle and the thermal turbojets appear to have a "NaN" TWR, with no Delta-V being detected whatsoever, when i launch a vessel with these engines and activate them, the game becomes really glitchy and every object turns transparent. the only solution i could find to this was to restart the game. its also important to mention that this doesn't happen to the Krusader thermal rocket engine. Here are some images of the issue:  https://imgur.com/a/uDgVJLf 

here's a ksp.log line that could be useful:

[LOG 21:29:44.450] Look rotation viewing vector is zero
[ERR 21:29:44.450] [KSPI]: Error FixedUpdate Value NaN is greater than Decimal.MaxValue or less than Decimal.MinValue Source: mscorlib Stack trace:   at System.Decimal..ctor (Single value) [0x00000] in <filename unknown>:0 
  at System.Decimal.op_Explicit (Single value) [0x00000] in <filename unknown>:0 
  at FNPlugin.ThermalNozzleController.FixedUpdate () [0x00000] in <filename unknown>:0 
  

 

Aside from that and the science lab bug, i haven't had any kind of issues and i consider this mod as my favourite one, being the real-life-based concepts characteristic what i like about it so much. Keep up the good work and i'll keep you informed if i ever encounter any kind of bug in the future.

If you look on the previous page, you'll see other reports of that. Try reverting one version of KSPI

Edited May 27, 2019 by kerbnub
KSPI version 1.20.20.3, not 20.20.3

[FreeThinker]

3 hours ago, khrist0ff said:

Thanks for the response. Also, i have encountered another bug which i'm not sure if it's caused by the mod itself, but the thermal ramjet nozzle and the thermal turbojets appear to have a "NaN" TWR, with no Delta-V being detected whatsoever, when i launch a vessel with these engines and activate them, the game becomes really glitchy and every object turns transparent. the only solution i could find to this was to restart the game. its also important to mention that this doesn't happen to the Krusader thermal rocket engine. Here are some images of the issue:  https://imgur.com/a/uDgVJLf 

here's a ksp.log line that could be useful:

[LOG 21:29:44.450] Look rotation viewing vector is zero
[ERR 21:29:44.450] [KSPI]: Error FixedUpdate Value NaN is greater than Decimal.MaxValue or less than Decimal.MinValue Source: mscorlib Stack trace:   at System.Decimal..ctor (Single value) [0x00000] in <filename unknown>:0 
  at System.Decimal.op_Explicit (Single value) [0x00000] in <filename unknown>:0 
  at FNPlugin.ThermalNozzleController.FixedUpdate () [0x00000] in <filename unknown>:0 
  

 

Aside from that and the science lab bug, i haven't had any kind of issues and i consider this mod as my favourite one, being the real-life-based concepts characteristic what i like about it so much. Keep up the good work and i'll keep you informed if i ever encounter any kind of bug in the future.

This was a bug in KSPIE 1.21.6. I suggest you install KSPIE 1.21.7 where it is fixed

[Drtyhppy2]

3 hours ago, kerbnub said:

Well, I tried a barebones version and can't get the ISRU to work right 

Same error. KSP 1.6.1.

KSPIE 20.20.3 to be precise (latest 1.6.1 version)

Can't reproduce the ISRU/precooler bug in Interstellar version 1.21.6, and a reasonably heavily modded install of KSP 1.4.3 for Mac.

Quote

KSPIE 20.20.3 to be precise (latest 1.6.1 version)

KSPI-E version 20.20.3? Genuinely impressive, sir. That may explain the bug. 

[flyguybc]

@Turbo Ben would you mind sharing a picture of your craft.  I have one that 4k d/v curious how you got to 7 and what it looks like.

[kerbnub]

11 hours ago, Drtyhppy2 said:

Can't reproduce the ISRU/precooler bug in Interstellar version 1.21.6, and a reasonably heavily modded install of KSP 1.4.3 for Mac.

 

KSPI-E version 20.20.3? Genuinely impressive, sir. That may explain the bug. 

Lol, I meant 1.20.20.3

But now I'm confused...... I've been installing KSPI through CKAN, where I assumed it gave me the latest for my KSP version (1.6.1). But my CKAN compatible versions look a lot older.  Is CKAN several patches behind?

 

I don't see any version file in the KSPI folders, so I'm half wondering if it's just a labelling issue. I'll try replacing what I have with a manual KSPI install from the OP here and see how it works.

Edit: it's clearly a newer version (has a kerbalism patch, wooo!), but I still have the same issues with it installed.

Edited May 27, 2019 by kerbnub

[kerbnub]

On 5/26/2019 at 9:13 AM, FreeThinker said:

Interesting exception. That tells me your precoller is missing a ModuleResourceIntake (or non stock module inheriting from it), which the AtmosphericIntake assumes is present. Somehow this partmodule has been removed, I'm going to assume another Mod has removed it (and replaced it with something else). It would be intresting to know  which is sabotaging KSPIE and I can write MM script to bypass the problem as I do not realy require ModuleResourceIntake, I only readout certain properties.

also @wkwied

It seems to be from KSPI itself, in the file \GameData\WarpPlugin\Patches\rapier.cfg

@PART[radialEngineBody]:FOR[WarpPlugin]
{
	@description = A magnificent piece of engineering that pre-cools the air flow from atmospheric engines, preventing overheating at high speeds.

	MODULE
	{
		name = FNModulePreecooler
	}

	MODULE
	{
		name = ModuleSabreHeating
	}

	MODULE
	{
		name = FlatFNRadiator
		isDeployable = false
		convectiveBonus = 50
		radiatorArea = 1
		partMass = 0.15			
	}

	!MODULE[ModuleResourceIntake]{}

	!RESOURCE[IntakeAir]{}
	!RESOURCE[LiquidFuel]{}

	RESOURCE
	{
		name = WasteHeat
		amount = 0
		maxAmount = 1000
	}
}

If I delete or comment out these:

    !MODULE[ModuleResourceIntake]{}

    !RESOURCE[IntakeAir]{}

then the ISRU menu works without errors. This also allows the precooler to work as an intake, which I'm not sure is intended.

 

The engine nacelle also works this way by default, as a precooler + inline intake, without messing up the ISRU menu, by the way. 

I found that the Sabre engine precoolers from B9 also function fine without affecting the ISRUs.

 

[davidle]

@FreeThinker

I'm having a recurring problem with the waste heat system. I can't tell if it's a conflict between mods, or just an issue with KSPIE. I've built several space planes using the B9 Sabre engines for atmospheric propulsion and nuclear lightbulbs for space propulsion. The plane also uses a lot of OPT spaceplane parts. The problem is that using using the nuclear engine for any length of time causes the sabre engines to overheat, along with the adjacent OPT part. The plane is festooned with radiators beyond what is necessary. After a normal burn the radiators are the un-heated color and show cooling at at >5%. My best guess is that the waste heat system is treating the engines as radiators, but I don't know how to diagnose the problem further. Any help is appreciated.

[FreeThinker]

20 hours ago, davidle said:

@FreeThinker

I'm having a recurring problem with the waste heat system. I can't tell if it's a conflict between mods, or just an issue with KSPIE. I've built several space planes using the B9 Sabre engines for atmospheric propulsion and nuclear lightbulbs for space propulsion. The plane also uses a lot of OPT spaceplane parts. The problem is that using using the nuclear engine for any length of time causes the sabre engines to overheat, along with the adjacent OPT part. The plane is festooned with radiators beyond what is necessary. After a normal burn the radiators are the un-heated color and show cooling at at >5%. My best guess is that the waste heat system is treating the engines as radiators, but I don't know how to diagnose the problem further. Any help is appreciated.

I have too little information but have you tried adding preecolers? They reduce heat production in your engines and will  reduce  wasteheat accumulation while in the atmosphere.

23 hours ago, kerbnub said:

also @wkwied

It seems to be from KSPI itself, in the file \GameData\WarpPlugin\Patches\rapier.cfg

@PART[radialEngineBody]:FOR[WarpPlugin]
{
	@description = A magnificent piece of engineering that pre-cools the air flow from atmospheric engines, preventing overheating at high speeds.

	MODULE
	{
		name = FNModulePreecooler
	}

	MODULE
	{
		name = ModuleSabreHeating
	}

	MODULE
	{
		name = FlatFNRadiator
		isDeployable = false
		convectiveBonus = 50
		radiatorArea = 1
		partMass = 0.15			
	}

	!MODULE[ModuleResourceIntake]{}

	!RESOURCE[IntakeAir]{}
	!RESOURCE[LiquidFuel]{}

	RESOURCE
	{
		name = WasteHeat
		amount = 0
		maxAmount = 1000
	}
}

If I delete or comment out these:

    !MODULE[ModuleResourceIntake]{}

    !RESOURCE[IntakeAir]{}

then the ISRU menu works without errors. This also allows the precooler to work as an intake, which I'm not sure is intended.

 

Thanks, I processed it into the next release

Edited May 28, 2019 by FreeThinker

[FreeThinker]

On 5/27/2019 at 7:29 PM, kerbnub said:

Lol, I meant 1.20.20.3

But now I'm confused...... I've been installing KSPI through CKAN, where I assumed it gave me the latest for my KSP version (1.6.1). But my CKAN compatible versions look a lot older.  Is CKAN several patches behind?

 

I don't see any version file in the KSPI folders, so I'm half wondering if it's just a labelling issue. I'll try replacing what I have with a manual KSPI install from the OP here and see how it works.

Edit: it's clearly a newer version (has a kerbalism patch, wooo!), but I still have the same issues with it installed.

Weird, I honestly tough CKAN install framework would automatically look for the most recent version available for a KSP version. In contrast to most other mods, I actually upload every new release for KSPIE for multiple KSP versions to Spacedock. So why wouldn't CKAN make them available for lower KSP versions?

Edited May 28, 2019 by FreeThinker

[flyguybc]

I'm pretty sure ckan is up to date, even though whatever file it looks for the version may not be.  I know this because when he releases one I get a pop up about a day later in cKan.  Also bug troubleshooting we have done has been fixed in cKan updates indicating that it is indeed patching and up to date.  

I will say mine says the wrong version too, but the files are the up to date ones.