Wolfhound & Cheetah engine thrust off-center

[Tyko]

The thrust of the Wolfhound and Cheetah are off-center and causing a craft to spin sideways. It's thrust must not be aligned with the intended direction of thrust

Steps to reproduce -

• Build a simple rocket with a command pod, fuel tank and a Wolfhound.
• F12 it into space
• leave SAS off and fire the engine (if you leave SAS on it's powerful enough to overcome the sideways thrust)
• my ship starts to rotate clockwise and keeps rotating faster

Are others seeing this?

Edited March 14, 2018 by Tyko

[Temeter]

Yep, the Thrust axis is off center.

[Tyko]

1 hour ago, Temeter said:

Yep, the Thrust axis is off center.

The Cheetah is off-center too...just ran through all the engines

[Temeter]

Patch and DLC seem to have lots of bugs

[Rocket In My Pocket]

I gotta admit, it's kind of sad that this 15$ DLC made by  a professional company seems to have worse quality control than your average free mod.

Can we at least expect a quick patch to fix this and many other glaring issues?

[Cpt Kerbalkrunch]

An obvious rush-job on the release. I don't wanna sound like an apologist, but I'm gonna give Squad a bit of a pass on the timing. Pretty obvious the word came down from on high to release before the end of the fiscal year. Ready or not, here it comes kind of thing. I imagine we'll be seeing 1.4.8 at some point.

 

[Rocket In My Pocket]

10 minutes ago, Cpt Kerbalkrunch said:

An obvious rush-job on the release. I don't wanna sound like an apologist, but I'm gonna give Squad a bit of a pass on the timing. Pretty obvious the word came down from on high to release before the end of the fiscal year. Ready or not, here it comes kind of thing. I imagine we'll be seeing 1.4.8 at some point.

Yeah, I hope you're right.

I'm a bit disappointed though, after listening to all the complaints before and after release that they were just "strapping some mods together with a mission planner" for 15$, and me telling people that "they were wrong, and that sure, mods added some of this stuff, but now it was official and it would have that extra level of polish and integration only Squad can give it" ;then the content is actually inferior in quality and polish to aforementioned mods? Even the balance/integration is better in most mods as well, some of these new engines have no clear place in the "meta", some are straight up variants of existing engines with no meaningful differences. The "Apollo lander" makes the Mk2 Lander Can completely irrelevant, as if the new Mk1-3 Command Pod hadn't already done that last week lol.

Maybe my expectations were too high? Idk. A quick patch addressing these issues would certainly go a long way towards making me feel better about it though.

Edited March 14, 2018 by Rocket In My Pocket

[klesh]

1 hour ago, Temeter said:

Yep, the Thrust axis is off center.

 

 

The Wolfhound itself looks to be offcenter to me:

 

Edited March 14, 2018 by klesh

[Cpt Kerbalkrunch]

I think the Wolfhound's entire existence should be in question. The numbers were so eye-popping, it was the first thing I tried. I didn't notice an off-center thrust, but that's probably because I was knocked over by its abilities. An engine that weighs less than a Nerv, with 6x the thrust, and still has over 400isp? I put the thing in orbit and it was unreal. The Energizer Bunny of lf/o engines. It just kept burning. Not a fan.

Edited March 14, 2018 by Cpt Kerbalkrunch

[Shadowmage]

4 hours ago, Cpt Kerbalkrunch said:

An engine that weighs less than a Nerv, with 6x the thrust, and still has over 400isp?

My thoughts exactly.  Well, close.  My first thought on seeing the ISP was -- 'So... stock has LH2 now?'.  Only no, it still burns LFO.

But then the ISP on the stock/MH J-2 is down in the 'stock' range.  Its like someone got the numbers on those two engines mixed up.  J-2 should be ~415, AJ-10-137 should be ~315

[Wjolcz]

I've noticed that with Wolfhound too. When I flew a very simple probe to orbit it just went nuts and started spinning like crazy. Thought it was a gimbal issue so I turned it down but then I ran out of fuel and I haven't had a chance to check it since yesterday.

[Tyko]

1 hour ago, Shadowmage said:

My thoughts exactly.  Well, close.  My first thought on seeing the ISP was -- 'So... stock has LH2 now?'.  Only no, it still burns LFO.

But then the ISP on the stock/MH J-2 is down in the 'stock' range.  Its like someone got the numbers on those two engines mixed up.  J-2 should be ~415, AJ-10-137 should be ~315

Agreed...I might have to do a personal balance pass of the new engines. I was thinking 385 vac ISP - this is 10% better than the Poodle. This would make it a top tier engine without breaking into the 400's.

@RoverDude - any insights into the decision to give Wolfhound an unusually high ISP?

Edited March 14, 2018 by Tyko

[SnailsAttack]

This whole update feels kinda off to me. I feel like it was really rushed and that many aspects of it weren't thought through.

[Temeter]

On 14.3.2018 at 10:43 PM, SnailsAttack said:

This whole update feels kinda off to me. I feel like it was really rushed and that many aspects of it weren't thought through.

Yep, there are a lot of small bugs and problems. But most of that stuff is minor, the thing that truly bothers is how the DLC mission system does not work for career contracts or in sandbox, which seems like a giant oversight. Having missions be an artificial savestate is the most lazy and pointless way to implement stuff like that.

Really disappointed in that regard. I hope they are going to update that, but I'm not sure if they are going to attempt such a massive update via 'free updates'.

[Superfluous J]

50 minutes ago, Temeter said:

the thing that truly bothers is how the DLC mission system does not work for career contracts or in sandbox

Here let me fix that for you.

I gotta say I'm pretty much bummed about this whole debacle, enough to step away for a while. I haven't really been playing KSP much and I was hoping that some new content that'd been polished for over a year would be just the thing to draw me back in. This pack has done just the opposite.

[Temeter]

14 minutes ago, 5thHorseman said:

Here let me fix that for you.

I gotta say I'm pretty much bummed about this whole debacle, enough to step away for a while. I haven't really been playing KSP much and I was hoping that some new content that'd been polished for over a year would be just the thing to draw me back in. This pack has done just the opposite.

I was optimistic too. To me, KSP is mostly fine by itself and half-hearted features like the part switcher are still a small plus, but seeing DLC being rushed this way makes it look as if the current dev team's priorities - or at least those of their leadership - are completely off.

Particuarly if you make a system like the mission builder, you should be aware that modding is the thing that makes KSP great. Otherwise you wouldn't create this DLC in the first place, and the idea itself is pretty great. Implementing something like this could finally make career interesting and add some spontaneous objectives to Sandbox, suddenly you got things to do on other planets, and your skills are being challenged! But to then completely cordon it off from the actual game, in this limited fashion...

Idk, it's just frustrating to me.

Edited March 16, 2018 by Temeter

[Cpt Kerbalkrunch]

13 minutes ago, Temeter said:

I was optimistic too. To me, KSP is mostly fine by itself and half-hearted features like the part switcher are still a small plus, but seeing DLC being rushed this way makes it look as if the current dev team's priorities - or at least those of their leadership - are completely off.

Particuarly if you make a system like the mission builder, you should be aware that modding is the thing that makes KSP great. Otherwise you wouldn't create this DLC in the first place, and the idea itself is pretty great. Implementing something like this could finally make career interesting and add some spontaneous objectives to Sandbox, suddenly you got things to do on other planets, and your skills are being challenged! But to then completely cordon it off from the actual game, in this limited fashion...

Idk, it's just frustrating to me.

My thoughts are pretty much the same. It wasn't a "No Man's Sky" level of debacle, but it wasn't good. There's a lot that needs to be addressed. I'm eagerly anticipating today's KSP Weekly. How many of these issues will they admit to, and how many will they attempt to gloss over? They'll surely spin the release as a success (and it probably was financially), but the problems definitely outnumber the positives.

Though it's head-scratchingly separate from the rest of the game (as everyone has pointed out), I still think the mission builder could save the whole thing. I've been playing around with it the last 2 nights, and it seems to have tons of potential. It still needs some clean-up and polish (sad to say after a year of development, but I'm willing to give a bit more leeway here; it must've been quite a job putting something so complicated together), but I can already see it's going to be fantastic. Can't wait to see what patches and updates are offered down the road. And if modders are able to get their hands on it, there's no telling what they'll be able to do. So, for now, I'll remain hopeful.

[PGTART]

i hope the extra funding by releasing this  update will improve the game a bit more.
But a next time  just create proposals on patron or so, i think many people would like this game to work (a bit) better.
 

[klesh]

For those of you disappointed that the Mission Builder doesn't touch career/sandbox... didn't you know that before it was released?  They made that pretty clear during development, and I was underwhelmed by it then, as I don't care for community challenges etc.

[Kerbart]

7 minutes ago, klesh said:

For those of you disappointed that the Mission Builder doesn't touch career/sandbox... didn't you know that before it was released?  They made that pretty clear during development, and I was underwhelmed by it then, as I don't care for community challenges etc.

Fitting missions into Career was not something I expected, nor does it disappoint. It seems very hard to me to integrate the two, and it would make the missions very bug-prone and sketchy to use, probably with some very counterintuitive mechanics in there.

Ooooh, wait...

Now we’re talking about what is disappointing:

• Despite many “working hard to find all the bugs” text that was listed in the weekly updates, Missions are riddled with bugs. I’m not saying that I was expecting bug-free — leave it to the community to uncover esoteric Heisenbugs — but my god, encountering them within five minutes on the first flight of the first mission? It really makes me wonder what was tested.
• No clickable windows in IVA’s
• The issue listed in this post which I find incredibly hard to dismiss as a figment of imagination. Sure it could be intended this way. But if it walks like a duck, and quacks like a duck, and swims like a duck...

I will be very disappointed if none of this gets fixed. But I’m sure Squad will do the right thing.

 

[Phreakish]

On 3/14/2018 at 4:09 AM, Tyko said:

The thrust of the Wolfhound and Cheetah are off-center and causing a craft to spin sideways. It's thrust must not be aligned with the intended direction of thrust

Steps to reproduce -

• Build a simple rocket with a command pod, fuel tank and a Wolfhound.
• F12 it into space
• leave SAS off and fire the engine (if you leave SAS on it's powerful enough to overcome the sideways thrust)
• my ship starts to rotate clockwise and keeps rotating faster

Are others seeing this?

Can confirm I'm seeing this as well. No mods of any kind. Any time I turn off SAS, it's a whirlygig. 

Tried with multiple pods, tanks, etc to rule out odd interactions with certain parts. The engines are definitely off-axis.

[g00bd0g]

Cannot believe SQUAD is releasing this crap, do they even care anymore?

[SnailsAttack]

On 3/16/2018 at 5:52 AM, Temeter said:

Yep, there are a lot of small bugs and problems. But most of that stuff is minor, the thing that truly bothers is how the DLC mission system does not work for career contracts or in sandbox, which seems like a giant oversight. Having missions be an artificial savestate is the most lazy and pointless way to implement stuff like that.

Really disappointed in that regard. I hope they are going to update that, but I'm not sure if they are going to attempt such a massive update via 'free updates'.

Yes, the bugs and problems are mostly minor, but there are a lot of them. Like... a ton. If you even just skim through the suggestion subform you'll see just how many there are.

[invision]

i love KSP but feel this DLC was a huge let down, so many bugs, mission maker isnt what i expected and doesnt work like i expected too. the engines are meh and new items all could be had in mods done better for free.hopefully they will square it away but doubtful after the console mess and now this.

[invision]

so i just used the wolf hound and alt f12 to space and went behind kerblin to see how far it can go on a mid range tank and PFFT it can leave the solar system, it is off center too if you dont SAS it spins the craft.