WHAT ATMOSPHERIC PLANET HAVE RETURNED FROM?

[EndTraveler]

just please fill out the poll so I can balance planet Atmo which may or may not be made in a planet pack

Edited April 19, 2018 by EndTraveler

[LordFerret]

Huh?

[Vanamonde]

Thread title edited for clarity. 

[Superfluous J]

12 minutes ago, Vanamonde said:

Thread title edited for clarity. 

Thanks, bruh.

[KerikBalm]

Quote

has much more ... gravity than jool.

Jool's surface gravity is rather low, making it more like a Saturn analogue than a Jupiter analogue.

Are you talking about the "size of the gravity well" or the acceleration due to gravity at the surface?

As for a denser atmosphere, without modified engines, you can't return from the surface of Jool because none of the engines produce enough thrust at 15 atmospheres IIRC.

Maybe the mammoth and aerospike can lift themselves, but any such vessel would be too much for a normal computer to handle.

Practically speaking, the most you can do is a Jool "limbo" (see how low into its atmosphere you can go and still get back up), or one way probes down into the abyss

[pandaman]

Duna, for me...  So far.

Shouldn't you add Laythe to this list. I know it's technically a moon, but...

[soulsource]

1 hour ago, KerikBalm said:

Jool's surface gravity is rather low, making it more like a Saturn analogue than a Jupiter analogue.

Are you talking about the "size of the gravity well" or the acceleration due to gravity at the surface?

As for a denser atmosphere, without modified engines, you can't return from the surface of Jool because none of the engines produce enough thrust at 15 atmospheres IIRC.

Maybe the mammoth and aerospike can lift themselves, but any such vessel would be too much for a normal computer to handle.

Practically speaking, the most you can do is a Jool "limbo" (see how low into its atmosphere you can go and still get back up), or one way probes down into the abyss

Not that I have ever attempted it, but shouldn't it still be possible to use the little thrust one gets for aerodynamic flight? Anyhow, I thought the Joolian surface cannot be reached as all probes will sooner or later explode on the descent?

 

Back on topic of balancing an atmosphere. You'll also have to ask people if they play with or without FAR, as without FAR drag is unrealistically high, so return missions are more difficult.

[AVaughan]

Well there are a couple of Jool "landing" videos on Youtube.

Bradley Whistance "The Odyssey by Bill; Book 22: "Landing" on Jool and returning" (Returning from below the zero altitude).

 

 

 

Matthew Karr "KSP: A Manned "Surface" Return from Jool". (Returning from about 2450 metres).

 

[KerikBalm]

1 hour ago, soulsource said:

Not that I have ever attempted it, but shouldn't it still be possible to use the little thrust one gets for aerodynamic flight? Anyhow, I thought the Joolian surface cannot be reached as all probes will sooner or later explode on the descent?

Well, from surface, I mean - altitude. It has no hard surface, and stuff does explode after getting into negative altitude numbers (sidenote, I've thought about giving it a liquid surface to represent a supercritical fluid)

The small amount of thrust could allow for atmospheric flight, in this case you can take the craft L/D and multiply that by TWR, and that needs to be above 1. This would still require a ludicrously huge craft beyond the capability of our computers, and massive numbers of staging (i'm not sure the craft would even work structurally)

Videos prior to 1.0 shouldn't really be used, as before 1.0, thrust did not vary with Isp (instead rocket engines consumed more fuel at low altitude, instead of producing less thrust, so TWR was the same at 15 atmospheres or in a vacuum).

Various "exploity" ways can be used (like abusing reaction wheels for stock propellers, as in on video posted by @AVaughan , and at least until 1.4.3 comes out, one can used the bugged fairings to make a craft that can drop its perapsis down to zero, and return back to space without suffering any drag losses.

*Edit* fired up KSP and used KER to display thrust of engines at 0 altitude on Jool.... nope atmospheric flight is not possible with stock parts

Aerospike: Thrust: 0.001 kN

Vector: 0.003 kN

Mammoth: 0.013 kN 

Now the mammoth is 15 tons, it would need ~15 kN of thrust to have a 1:1 TWR at 0.1 G. At 0.8 G (jool surface gravity), it would need ~120 kN of thrust to have a 1:1 TWR.  0.013/120 = 0.000108 TWR. Required L/D for atmospheric flight would be about 920:1.

Not possible to do with a rocket design. You'll need a propeller that abuses reaction wheels, or a dragless fairing exploit

Edited April 19, 2018 by KerikBalm

[EndTraveler]

that odyssey video gave me all the info i need to say that a planet Atmo landing is possible. adding new question

[LordFerret]

It won't let me vote in #2 without voting in #1, so I didn't vote. But, closest I've been is 144422k; Or something like that. Happy trails.

[MythicalHeFF]

Eve skrub 

Closest I ever got to Kerbol without cheats is around 500,000km

Edited April 19, 2018 by Jack Joseph Kerman

[EndTraveler]

thx for all the info! planet Atmo is possible!