Air Superiority Competition Unlimited Re-Continued - Now in KSP 1.4 and BDA 1.2!

[Box of Stardust]

@dundun92 I don't know how you built your Du-2As, but the main fuel tanks aren't feeding fuel, and you have like, a minute of flight time. And the Du-7 also has like, no fuel.

Edited August 7, 2018 by Box of Stardust

[Joseph Kerman]

I still got no reply

 

[Guest]

  On 8/7/2018 at 5:27 AM, Box of Stardust said:

@dundun92 I don't know how you built your Du-2As, but the main fuel tanks aren't feeding fuel, and you have like, a minute of flight time. And the Du-7 also has like, no fuel.

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Weird... I did it against the HSC and it had plenty of fuel... Let him update it and keep his place on the board.

Edited August 7, 2018 by Guest

[Guest]

  On 8/7/2018 at 5:27 AM, Box of Stardust said:

@dundun92 I don't know how you built your Du-2As, but the main fuel tanks aren't feeding fuel, and you have like, a minute of flight time. And the Du-7 also has like, no fuel.

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what... it out lasts the pegasys in my testing... ru using the block 35/55?

[Guest]

  On 8/7/2018 at 8:50 AM, Joseph Kerman said:

I still got no reply

 

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Sorry Joseph... What's wrong?

[Guest]

@Box of Stardust, the du-2 block 35/55 has ~5 mins of full AB... try downloading them again. i updated them with the latest file from my laptop. also, just forget the du-7. the du-2 is superior anyway.

Edited August 7, 2018 by Guest

[Joseph Kerman]

@dundun93 Ahem... my plane...

[Box of Stardust]

  On 8/7/2018 at 10:53 PM, dundun92 said:

@Box of Stardust, the du-2 block 35/55 has ~5 mins of full AB... try downloading them again. i updated them with the latest file from my laptop. also, just forget the du-7. the du-2 is superior anyway.

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Okay. I just base fuel times off of the KER reading; decent time is 15+ minutes of dry thrust. Not sure if I checked the 35/55 yet. Also, if you set the engines to afterburner.

And if you want the Du-7 gone, then so be it.

  On 8/7/2018 at 11:25 PM, Joseph Kerman said:

@dundun93 Ahem... my plane...

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Yes, there is a queue and leaderboard for everyone to view. 

Edited August 7, 2018 by Box of Stardust

[ZLM-Master]

Hi all ! Just working on a hybrid X-Fighter . Shape still in W.I.P . Global perfs seems better , but tuning is not ready .

No link for now , No replacement for now too !

Coming soon ....

[Guest]

Houston, we have a problem with the latest BDA update...

@Box of Stardust, the latest BDA update need to banned. For once, it adds an EMP "death ray" that will fry any electronics on enemy aircraft. And they even have one that can be carried on a missile... this will make drone combat virtually impossible. Not to mention anything that uses EC. And, it has reloable missile rails. Yup, no need for 10 sidewinders. Just put 1, and have it reload. This needs to be banned, specifically the EMP shenanigans. The reloading missile rails aren't the best, but at least it isn't too spammy.

To quote @SpannerMonkey(smce):

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The EMP module must be added to a missile in order that it function as such . The module  is simple and the only configurable element is proximity, which translates for you guys as effective range.  There is no drop off, it is a hard edged effect,  in the example below a vehicle at 90 meters from explosion will be disabled , a vehicle at 110 mtrs will not.  It works by removing the ability to store and generate electric charge and affects all systems.  Surface craft will stop moving, and aircraft will fall  out of the sky. All BDA equip is also disabled , so it is effective on crewed or un crewed craft     Most important.  There is no reset  once affected by a pulse the craft is dead.

 

Edited August 8, 2018 by Guest

[SpannerMonkey(smce)]

@dundun92

Hi,  lets  clear up  these misunderstandings.
There is no death ray, and there will not be one. 
There is a module that can be fitted to missiles , and is currently fitted in only two missiles, uniquely named, in the BDA parts collection.  Its a simple matter to ban use of two missiles just like you do lasers.  
The reloadable rail cannot be reloaded by AI, and therefore is of no use in AI comps, the AI will treat it as single fire only. 
Also as mentioned in thread and the bit you didn't quote is that even in manual use there is a limit to the amount of times it can be reloaded. It is not an infinite supply of missiles, add to that , that there is no reloadable missile part in BDA . The module is provided mainly to be used by weapon mod makers.
Perhaps a bit of an over reaction on your part.

[Guest]

  On 8/8/2018 at 6:25 PM, SpannerMonkey(smce) said:

@dundun92

Hi,  lets  clear up  these misunderstandings.
There is no death ray, and there will not be one. 
There is a module that can be fitted to missiles , and is currently fitted in only two missiles, uniquely named, in the BDA parts collection.  Its a simple matter to ban use of two missiles just like you do lasers.  
The reloadable rail cannot be reloaded by AI, and therefore is of no use in AI comps, the AI will treat it as single fire only. 
Also as mentioned in thread and the bit you didn't quote is that even in manual use there is a limit to the amount of times it can be reloaded. It is not an infinite supply of missiles, add to that , that there is no reloadable missile part in BDA . The module is provided mainly to be used by weapon mod makers.
Perhaps a bit of an over reaction on your part.

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oh... thx for clearing that up

[Guest]

  On 8/8/2018 at 5:57 PM, dundun92 said:

Houston, we have a problem

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LOL thats funny!

[Guest]

  On 8/7/2018 at 11:27 PM, Box of Stardust said:

queue and leaderboard for everyone to view.  

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I don't think he knows where to go. You may need to explain.

[Xd the great]

  On 8/9/2018 at 2:25 AM, dundun93 said:

I don't think he knows where to go. You may need to explain.

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Go to the first post and click on the link.

[ZLM-Master]

Yop . 

... Is there already someone who make a Team Jetfighter Battle ?

Two dude in the team A against two other in the team B ....

... Should had strategic team play ... & two crafts setup .... well .... just meditate .....

... just ....

........ meditate .....

... MMmmmmm ....

[Box of Stardust]

So a lot of battles have happened, but I just haven't had the time to edit/speed them up and upload them until now.

 

First up, @ZLM-Master's X-Fighter Hunter goes on re-advancement against the PEGASys-D6. Can it win in the 5v5 rematch format?

Battle:

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After Action Report:

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Battle Report:

Analysis:

It was still pretty close, but I learned a lot more about these two planes and their flaws. I actually ran two more matches after these two, and PEGASys absolutely dominated one of them something like 4-1, and the other was fought to parity 2-2 before both teams ran out of fuel. So I think the edge still goes to the PEGASys.

First about the X-Fighter. It was alluded to the first time, but I'll say it straight this time: it has problems with roll control. It overshoots its intended roll input a lot. Next, I don't know if it still has friendly fire problems with missiles; there was just too much going on in these battles to notice. Maybe, maybe not.

Next, on its survivability. Its very small size is definitely an asset, but missiles screw up its day. While it's still able to continue flying despite taking missile hits, again, losing those Delta Deluxe wings asymmetrically hampers its stability to the point of losing combat effectiveness. However, losing all of them means nothing upsets its stability, so... that was one of the lucky ones.

It's also able to out-turn the PEGASys thanks to using its full pitch potential. Thrust is good, but just not enough against the extremely fast D6.

As for the PEGASys, it has its own flaws that caused me to reduce its Flight AI rating on the stats sheet as well. It just never uses its max pitch. I don't remember if it did when it was first programmed in an earlier patch of BDA 1.2, but its first battle against the X-Fighter shows it maneuvering in roughly the same way. It just never maximizes its pitch, which is how it loses targets it's following.

Still, its extreme durability still shows. Many PEGASys are damaged to the point of losing half the main body (and therefore a lot of fuel reserve), but they're still in the fight near-fully even after taking a missile hit that would render most other aircraft out of the fight. Its survivability is definitely its best asset, followed by high thrust to weight for incredible acceleration.

I stopped recording kills because it doesn't really matter in the 5v5 re-advancement matches, only losses matter, and actual kills are hard to keep track of. In this battle, most of the losses were due to crashes. A few were due to pilot error, but most of them were due to battle damage (more on the X-Fighter's side, flying into the ocean; PEGASys could survive to a glide, but also usually destroyed on impact).

X-Fighter Hunter loses the re-advancement, and remains in spot #2, while PEGASys-D6 holds the #1 spot.

 

Next battle is two manned fighters trying to see who stays on top. @dundun93's ASW-MI(D) goes up against @53miner53's Fighter 3 Mk4:

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After Action Report:

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Battle Report:

Analysis:

While one is very fast, the other is very slow. However, the ASW-MI(D) is much better in a turning fight, but only when the F3-4s would stay within range. In the end, the F3-4s could out run and escape when it needed to, while the ASW-MI(D) could only make moves when the F3-4s would let it.

Also, the ASW-MI(D) had a very odd behavioral quirk where they would not actually turn in to fight, but continue to fly straight until targets flew by close enough. I'm not really sure what causes this.

 

Next battle, we have a newcomer. @MDZhB's Alice Doll drone goes up against @dundun92's IV-7F to start.

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After Action Report:

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Battle Report:

Analysis:

The Alice Doll is good on the offensive, as long as it doesn't damage itself. A lot of its problems were just missiles detonating on itself. But when it was on guns, it maneuvered well and fired on targets effectively. It helps that the IV-7F is a bit of a well-sized, somewhat clumsy target.

The Doll's second weakness is endurance. Only 200 units of fuel to feed two Panther engines. It stays off of the burner for a decent amount of time, which helps, but not enough. It has some problems taking hits, but doesn't seem too bad losing the Delta Deluxe winglets; it's still able to fly pretty decently for the level of performance it's competing relative to.

Still, the IV-7F isn't too bothered getting its rear control surfaces destroyed, as long as it still has its canards, which are far more essential control surfaces in terms of controlling the plane. It puts up an effective enough fight to win it this close battle.

IV-7F holds the #6 spot, and the Alice Doll advances downwards.

 

Next battle:

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@MDZhB's Alice Doll continues downward against @53miner53's Fighter 3 Mk4:

 

 

After Action Report:

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Battle Report:

Analysis:

Two very zippy planes face each other in this battle.

And to be honest, I ran more battles than what's shown here. The totaled results were confusing and varied greatly, especially since the Fighter 3 Mk4 is not a consistent fighter. Sometimes it occasionally killed itself launching the RBS. The way it flew and turned into the initial attack was inconsistent.

The Alice Doll is inconsistent as well. There were some matches where it killed itself trying to launch a Sidewinder.

Here's what I noticed: with a fully optimal start, the F3-4s had a fair chance. If they got split up, their chances dropped.

There were times when the F3-4s would lose control and spin out in a sort of stall, hanging in the air to get shot at.

Both of these planes had a tendency to zoom straight into the ocean.

And of course, the randomness of how effective missile hits will be. Like in that last match, where every missile hit on an F3-4 was absolutely devastating; the third kill was so quick, the missile is only visible for like, two frames.

So, I went with these results. Check the aircraft stats sheet to make your own decisions about them.

 

@ZLM-Master's Support Light Guard is next, going up against the Lure Target. Small, light drone, vs big fish lure with lots of missiles.

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After Action Report:

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Battle Report:

Analysis:

Analysis:

The Lure Target strikes again! Continuing to prove its worth in being a good baseline for a good fighter.

If you'll look at the stats sheet, the Support Light Guard is actually rated pretty well in most regards. However, its two lowest stats are two major flaws: it is very slow, and it only has two Sidewinders, which means very little staying power.

It's quite comparable to the P-5a Flash in most regards, actually. However, the P-5a Flash has higher thrust-to-weight, allowing it to maintain some control over the fight. The SLG, however, cannot. It is very underpowered by ASC standards, and so the Lure Target was able to control the fight.

It also has only two missiles. When the SLG can't even catch up to its target, its only time it can do damage is when a target passes by. No good.

The Support Light Guard has to continue downwards against the Tier 2 board! Also, I'm considering promoting the Lure Target to 'official test aircraft'. You'd think it's an easy drone to beat, but if you don't build right, it'll kick you down...

Next battle:

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@ZLM-Master's Support Light Guard goes up against @dundun92's IV-7F:

 

 

After Action Report:

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Battle Report:

Analysis:

Thrust is a really important characteristic of a plane. It's one of the fundamentals in good fighter design, probably more than maneuverability.

Even though the SLG is more maneuverable than the IV-7F, the IV-7F can just run away.

Also, the SLG is again, low on armament, while the IV-7F has a good amount of weapons.

The Support Light Guard continues downwards, with the IV-7F defending its #6 spot.

 

Next battle:

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@ZLM-Master's Support Light Guard vs @MDZhB's Alice Doll:

 

 

After Action Report:

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Analysis:

Well, ouch. That was painfully quick.

We're back to thrust issues. The Alice Doll is just so much faster and hits hard. The maneuverability advantage of the SLG did not come into play much at all. The AD went in with quick strikes and overwhelmed the SLG.

So the Alice Doll has its first successful defense in its first defensive match, and the Support Light Guard will continue to go downwards on the board...

 

And that's all I've recorded! More to come, with a few heavy hitters on the bottom end of the queue...

[Joseph Kerman]

update, update

[Box of Stardust]

  On 8/11/2018 at 4:06 AM, Joseph Kerman said:

update, update

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big link in the first post so you can stay up to date with everything

 

[Guest]

in order to help newcomers(and even to help experienced players), i have created a guide for making competitive BDArmory fighter jets. it is not finished yet, and suggestions/additions are totally welcome.

@Xd the great.

Edited August 11, 2018 by Guest

[Guest]

@Box of Stardust can u replace the Du-2A Block 55s spot in the qeue with this?

https://kerbalx.com/dundun92/Du-11

AND THIS IS TOTALLY NOT A COPY OF THE  PEGASYS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!(for real, its not) it also uses [REDACTED] to give quick, snappy roll control. it can stop its roll almost instantly.

Edited August 11, 2018 by Guest

[Box of Stardust]

  On 8/11/2018 at 11:49 PM, dundun92 said:

AND THIS IS TOTALLY NOT A COPY OF THE  PEGASYS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!(for real, its not) it also uses [REDACTED] to give quick, snappy roll control. it can stop its roll almost instantly.

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Haha, lol. I'll believe you on that, since it probably still won't take missile hits like a PEGASys/Basilisk would (their defining feature, really), but I'm sure it'll still be cool.

Plus it gives a good reason to not have two really similar planes in the queue.

[Box of Stardust]

Well, I'm off to do a lot of battles, because I really want to see the Du-11 and Basilisk-C4 slug it out. I've looked at the Du-11 in the SPH, and so far everything I can rate off of quantifiable analysis has it equal to the Basilisk (stats sheet updated to reflect these values). Except durability. So, we've yet to see which has better maneuverability and flight control.

[Xd the great]

Wait, in theory can we use the emp weapons?

[Box of Stardust]

  On 8/12/2018 at 1:42 AM, Xd the great said:

Wait, in theory can we use the emp weapons?

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If/when BDA implements those, then most likely no. We tend to ban things that break the spirit of creating the ultimate dogfighting machine. But of course, we'll test them out first and see what really is what, and if it warrants banning.

Though we are the least limited in all BDA dogfighting competitions I know of, we still limit super crazy things because, well... here's the first time the rules got pushed, all the way 2 years ago in one of the first big BDA competitions I remember of:

Which was awesome and hilarious, but completely shutting down the enemy team with not much effort turns out to really make the idea of the competition pretty pointless.

We like to push the boundaries of what's possible with BDA combat aircraft here, and there are times when we realize we've crossed a line that would be considered no longer acceptable. This was the last one we've come across:

It's kind of a silently agreed upon thing to just not put a lot of guns on a plane, because that just got really dumb; Gunbrick was pushing the limit, and worked because of BDA 1.0's quirks at the time. I've actually re-made Gunbrick for BDA 1.2 and it still sort of works, actually, but I'm going to hold off on it for now until I see what the HSC does... If you want a good read, I suggest you read through the previous thread (link in main post) to see the tale of Gunbrick and the progression of that train of thought. And just lots of fun battles.

Edited August 12, 2018 by Box of Stardust