Air Superiority Competition Unlimited Re-Continued - Now in KSP 1.4 and BDA 1.2!

[Xd the great]

7 hours ago, Box of Stardust said:

Have an example craft?

https://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/index.php?/topic/177690-pre-release-145-xd-horrible-weapons-mod/

the test craft.

[Box of Stardust]

Battles:

Spoiler

@MDZhB's Lumia Doll vs @dundun92's IV-7F

 

 

After Action Report:

Spoiler

Battle Report:

Analysis:

This one was a bit of a confusing one. However, I think I know part of the issue here. Some of the AI stuff on the Lumia Doll just... isn't working right. I'm not sure why, but they don't seem to be working properly. Or, they're not working as they originally did...

The LDs are good on the assault, but they're not fast enough due to some weird thing not letting them hit their speed limit. But I'm wondering if this is due to adjustments in BDA programming, which might be making the AI still even smarter, by not lighting the afterburners continuously, and instead, letting the AI cruise at max dry thrust when in a straight line. Something to think about.

However, that hypothesis doesn't make much sense since I think most other planes do light the afterburners despite going in a straight line and they drop below a speed threshold from the max speed. So... I'm not sure.

Since the LDs are not quick enough, they dump a lot of missiles in the initial attack, which actually loses effectiveness pretty quickly, as the IV-7Fs are still in evasive mode.

In the following dogfights, the IV-7Fs still have all of their missiles, and they can pick off the LDs over time. Also, the LDs are pretty large targets, while the IV-7F has a fairly small frontal/rear profile.

The LD also seems to abort giving chase too easily. Not sure why.

The IV-7F holds its spot in this very strange match that should have been more equal...

 

Next battle:

Spoiler

@MDZhB's Lumia Doll vs Alice Doll:

 

 

After Action Report:

Spoiler

Battle Report:

Analysis:

The Lumia Doll has a pretty bad issue with offing itself. This is even after I did the 'missile rail fixes'.

Also, it also occurred to me that sub-optimal weapon ranges are hurting it.

The Alice Doll has the advantage in size primarily, which helps it greatly against the LD that struggles to hit the target. At least, more than normal compared to other fighters; gun accuracy is probably an issue in BDA right now, according to the devs.

 

Next battle:

Spoiler

@MDZhB's Lumia Doll has one last chance, against @ZLM-Master's Support Light Guard:

 

 

After Action Report:

Spoiler

Battle Report:

Analysis:

Firepower and thrust. Lumia Doll has the edge there and can dictate the battle.

Support Light Guard drops off of the board as the Lumia Doll takes its place.

 

Next battle:

Spoiler

@Xd the great's mini drone vs @MDZhB's Lumia Doll, testing from the bottom up as a judge's call.

 

 

After Action Report:

Spoiler

Analysis:

The not so aptly named mini drone flew like a brick and couldn't really engage, and took almost no offensive action during the entire battle. Also, ramjets are a bad engine to use because they run hot and they actually don't provide that much thrust at lower velocities.

The Lumia Doll keeps damaging itself though, but that seems to be a BDA problem now...

 

Next battle:

Spoiler

@Joseph Kerman's D-1 Generation I starts its run from the middle, testing against #6, @53miner53's P-5a Flash:

 

 

After Action Report:

Spoiler

Battle Report:

Analysis:

Hmm... interesting outcome.

The P-5a is a strange plane, because it beats the Lure Target specifically, but the Lure Target beats almost everything else. And I'm pretty sure the D-1 would have lost against the Lure Target if it had gone up against it, since the Lure Target has it beat or matched in all categories except size. But due to the current state of the board, the D-1 had to face the P-5a, and was able to advance. Which is also weird, since the P-5a is equal or better in all categories than the D-1 except for firepower. Might need some revision then?

Now, about the D-1. Those Junos... well, they're okay. The platform as a whole isn't very confidence inspiring, but it apparently gets the job done.

Top mounted missiles though? Man, the D-1 kills itself a lot. In fact, I've spent more time trying to figure out how to make the D-1 stop killing itself than actually running its next battle... I may need to add missile rails for it to launch missiles or something. I've even tried remounting its missiles on the bottom... and it still causes problems. BDA is being really annoying right now.

Still, when the D-1 doesn't kill itself, it shows itself to be a good dogfighter... somehow. It just can't take hits. Like, at all. I haven't seen it survive any damage it's taken. It's very flimsy.

It beat the P-5a though, which means it advances upwards against the Du-4A... which I will discuss below.

 

 

So. I will actually be holding off on running further battles because BDA is being very weird right now. Missiles are exploding on launch a lot, at least on the D-1. It also explodes on other craft occasionally. That's problematic. Even on other craft I'm making... missiles are exploding on the launch craft with frequency, despite following the new 'missile mounting rules'.

A bigger problem is that some parts (I think mostly AP+ parts; the Tiger, mostly) just don't have consistent hitpoints. I can spawn in one team and the Tiger engines will have 26000 hitpoints, while the other team only has 2500 hitpoints on the Tiger engines... or even 1000.

So... yeah. Problems. I haven't fully figured it out yet, if there's anything I can do on my end about it, but I also have to check in with the BDA dev team about it.

[Joseph Kerman]

On 8/23/2018 at 11:54 PM, Box of Stardust said:

So. I will actually be holding off on running further battles because BDA is being very weird right now. Missiles are exploding on launch a lot, at least on the D-1. It also explodes on other craft occasionally. That's problematic. Even on other craft I'm making... missiles are exploding on the launch craft with frequency, despite following the new 'missile mounting rules'.

A bigger problem is that some parts (I think mostly AP+ parts; the Tiger, mostly) just don't have consistent hitpoints. I can spawn in one team and the Tiger engines will have 26000 hitpoints, while the other team only has 2500 hitpoints on the Tiger engines... or even 1000.

So... yeah. Problems. I haven't fully figured it out yet, if there's anything I can do on my end about it, but I also have to check in with the BDA dev team about it.

I never had splodey missiles through the use of AMRAAM's; they tend to affect Sidewinders only. One workaround was to put Decouple Speed all the way up and have a drop time of a half-second.

As for the inconsistent hitpoints... well, let's leave that to the mod devs.

Edited August 26, 2018 by Joseph Kerman

[Joseph Kerman]

@Box of Stardust I think the devs fixed the Sides

[Geoplex_Official]

I have a fast and maneuverable fighter with 4 Vulcan turrets, but has a low endurance

[Geoplex_Official]

are interceptors allowed?

Edited September 26, 2018 by Geoplex_Official

[Xd the great]

On 9/27/2018 at 12:58 AM, Geoplex_Official said:

are interceptors allowed?

yes, but the competition is currently paused, due to bugs.

[Guest]

On 10/19/2018 at 9:23 AM, Xd the great said:

yes, but the competition is currently paused, due to bugs.

It's basically dead...

[Piatzin]

13 hours ago, dundun93 said:

It's basically dead...

My computer overheats and dies when intensive programs are run - KSP included - so I'm out of this competition, unfortunately :(

[Ribby Kerman]

Ooh, Is this still active? I want to try it out. Ill design something

[Joseph Kerman]

ded

[Piatzin]

4 hours ago, Joseph Kerman said:

ded

...Just like Naval Battles

'Tis the end of the military Triad. Duo. Thing.

[jrodriguez]

Hi all,

I was thinking that maybe I can use this thread as a closed beta testing group for the next release of BDArmory for KSP 1.5.1?

https://1drv.ms/u/s!AixZLrjtqp-Rgr4ksM3Yg_1MLvWy-g

Here you can find a bundle of BDA, PRE, VesselMover and DestructionEffects ready to be used for KSP 1.5.1

This beta includes several fixed regarding:
- Better aiming calculations

- Now missiles with 0 detonationDistance are only detonating on collision with the target (this improve the effectiveness of a AGM missiles)

- Better FX performance limiting the number of parallel animations.

-  Safer checks to avoid missiles detonating when fired.

-  Avoid friendly lock of heat missiles.

 

If the feedback from you is ok, I will be releasing this officially.

Edited November 1, 2018 by jrodriguez

[Guest]

On 11/1/2018 at 5:21 AM, jrodriguez said:

Hi all,

I was thinking that maybe I can use this thread as a closed beta testing group for the next release of BDArmory for KSP 1.5.1?

https://1drv.ms/u/s!AixZLrjtqp-Rgr4ksM3Yg_1MLvWy-g

Here you can find a bundle of BDA, PRE, VesselMover and DestructionEffects ready to be used for KSP 1.5.1

This beta includes several fixed regarding:
- Better aiming calculations

- Now missiles with 0 detonationDistance are only detonating on collision with the target (this improve the effectiveness of a AGM missiles)

- Better FX performance limiting the number of parallel animations.

-  Safer checks to avoid missiles detonating when fired.

-  Avoid friendly lock of heat missiles.

 

If the feedback from you is ok, I will be releasing this officially.

Yes! That a great idea. @Box of Stardust do you agree?

Edited November 3, 2018 by Guest

[Guest]

On 11/1/2018 at 5:21 AM, jrodriguez said:

I was thinking that maybe I can use this thread as a closed beta testing group for the next release of BDArmory for KSP 1.5.1?


great idea!. Will be providing feedback as soon as i can.

[Xd the great]

any plans for updating this to ksp v 1.5.1 and associated bdac?

[Joseph Kerman]

ja? @Box of Stardust

[HeroBrian_333]

Is this still kinda alive?

for real?

I thought it would be dead by now...

I'm actually impressed!

Kudos to exbyde and Box of Stardust for keeping my challenge semi-alive.

 

 

[Piatzin]

On 12/2/2018 at 6:01 AM, HeroBrian_333 said:

Is this still kinda alive?

Ehh....it's inching along slowly. It'll probably pass through various resurgences over time

[panzerknoef]

So this thing is entirely dead then? Shame that I'm late to the party, I would've loved to give it a shot... Nobody planning on doing a reboot either? 

[Box of Stardust]

I've been away due to classes and being busy and all that general stuff.

Someone answer me this: has the problems with Sidewinders been fixed? Because if it has, then I'll see to getting back to this maybe within a month or so.

[panzerknoef]

8 hours ago, Box of Stardust said:

I've been away due to classes and being busy and all that general stuff.

Someone answer me this: has the problems with Sidewinders been fixed? Because if it has, then I'll see to getting back to this maybe within a month or so.

I haven't had any issues of late, so I guess it's been fixed

[Piatzin]

So this thread is (was?) incredibly popular, and though it's likely to grind along with some semblance of progress, there's probably not going to be any sort of serious innovation unless someone like @exbyde continuously meets the demands of running dogfights (Exbyde, before you start panicking, no I'm not suggesting you start running things again).

My point is that this thread is inactive due to the nature of the way the competition itself is run. Take my thread on Naval Battles - it's been around longer, and has far less posts, but it receives surges of activity according to people's interest in the concept of wet navy warfare, as opposed to according to how effectively the OP can keep up with submissions.

This thread enters stasis the way it does because its existence relies on someone taking the burden of running dozens of time consuming dogfights. It's just not a sustainable way of running a challenge this popular. Granted, we could get multiple people to run battles, but that's only spreading out the problem, and finding people who possess the time, motivation and hardware to do as such would be difficult.

Someone might pick up the mantle someday, but considering the thread's popularity and focus, I think it might be more convenient to.....reevaluate its aim, and maybe change the nature of what it's about.

Say, perhaps shifting the rules such that people run their own dogfights (1v1 or 3v3, depending on the person's computer quality) in a two-person system, or expanding the discussion to include R&D, etc.

Basically I'm saying that the thread is in danger of going kaput and extinct, and that we should probably do something about it.

[Box of Stardust]

On 12/2/2018 at 12:01 AM, HeroBrian_333 said:

Is this still kinda alive?

for real?

I thought it would be dead by now...

I'm actually impressed!

Kudos to exbyde and Box of Stardust for keeping my challenge semi-alive.

 

 

Well, it seems that the idea of BDA dogfights just won't die, and this thread is the most recent iteration of a nearly-no-holds-barred-go-nuts competition, so... that's why this is around.

It's been in hibernation for a few months though. But at least there's easy access to the competition leaderboard and queue?

 

On 12/18/2018 at 9:01 PM, Earthlinger said:

expanding the discussion to include R&D

I mean, we've always discussed the R&D. At least when we get to a point where it seems like we've reached the current meta's limits, and it's time to innovate again.

 

There was also the suggestion to use this as a BDA beta testing thread, which is a perfectly fine idea, given the nature of what we do in this thread anyways, pushing BDA to its limit.

 

Aaaaanyyways, since it looks like my schedule is generally clear for the next month, expect the 'official' competition to start moving again some time soon.

 

[Box of Stardust]

Okay, so, I've begun looking into finishing the current queue.

Only thing is, BDA 1.2 for KSP 1.4.5 does not have the fixes that were implemented that seem to resolve the major issues we were having.

So that means I'll probably update to the latest version of KSP (I haven't touched the game for almost half a year), which means newest version of BDA, which means things may potentially go wrong when using the older craft. But at least (maybe) missiles will stop killing the craft they are launching from and AP+ parts will have proper hitpoints.