[1.12.5] TechTrees: QUARTIX 3.10, TETRIX 2.26, SIMPLEX 1.36

[theJesuit]

3 hours ago, zulu354 said:

On my way to check it out. Thanks for your effort. =)

EDIT:

Just recognised some overlapping in the techt tree:

You're welcome!

Just as @Taki117 has noted, you have another TechTree installed.   My guess is the Community TechTree.  They are not compatible sorry - so its one or the other.

However have no fear!  There will be a solution at some point, SIMPLEX TechTree 2.0 will include additional nodes.  If you look back there are some initial designs, but I'm moving closer to the current one.  This won't be CTT compatible, more inspired and I'm hoping to create my own icons.  If not I'll borrow some.  There will be additional branches for stations, mining, and other late game specialisation, with another four tiers or so.  Before then I may send Nertia a patch to put CTT into the Simplex Tech Tree, but I'm still working my head around it and haven't' discussed it.

Peace.

[zulu354]

Thanks for the reply. Yep, CTT was installed. Could be I've overseen it when I played around with different Tech Trees. Will give it a new try at all.

[theJesuit]

Hi all,

I am aware that with a new normal career save with kerbalism 2.2.0 that it is basically impossible to progress to even tier 1 without MASSIVE grind.  I'm looking at how this might be addressed... either with a patch for kerbalism in the techtree , or helping with balancing out kerbalism itself.

Peace.

[theJesuit]

Hi all,

I'm planning a 1.8.1 patch just for the updated 1.7 parts.  Should be ready by this weekend.

I'm then going to do a balance release across other SIMPLEX mods.

PSA for Kerbalism 2.2.0.  When these officially drops there will be a change in how science is collected and the amount of science available at the KSC using KEI (i.e. none).  This will have implications for those who play with the SIMPLEX TechTree, especially on 50% science.  What I plan to do, is add a config file into kerbalism itself for when SIMPLEX TechTree is installed.  This will buff slightly the amount of science available in biomes on kerbin's surface and in atmoshperic flight over Kerbin, but keep everything else the same.  Kerbalism's science balance is geared towards stock based tech trees where the first two nodes are worth 5 sciences points, as opposed to Simplex with five at 15 points each.

Plans for SIMPLEX TechTree 2.0  Still on going.  This is more likely to a week after Easter.  There may be some changes to the cost of nodes in tiers, with distinct early, mid and late game sets  I'm currently considering this:

Tier 1: 10 (5 nodes - currently 5 at 15)
Tier 2: 30 (12 nodes - current 10 at 45)
Tier 3: 90 (12 nodes - current 10 at 90)

Tier 4: 120 (13 nodes - current 11 at 160)
Tier 5: 240 (13 nodes - current 10 at 300)
Tier 6: 480 (16 nodes - current 11 at 550)

Tier 7: 720 (15 nodes - current 5 at 1000)
Tier 8: 1080 (13 nodes)
Tier 9: 1620 (12 nodes)

Final: 2700 (5 nodes)

Currently:
Stock requires 18,648 science to complete the TechTree
SIMPLEX requires 17,235 science to complete the TechTree

with the additional extension  it will require 71,630 science to complete that will require KSPIE,
so without this KSPIE and so only the Near Future Suite, , i'd expect around 25,000 or so.

Peace.

[theJesuit]

Hi all, the important bit is this:

1.9 just dropped to add support for Breaking Ground, and updating Near Future Solar.  The engine nerf has been adjusted a little - a tweak really.

 

In other news...

also, a slight teaser - this is pretty much how the current tree translates to 2.0.

Spoiler

You may first notice that icons have changed.  This are all sourced (except for the one to the right of commandModules) from the stock game.

Some have had their icons changed for other icons (looking at you nano-lathing and aerodynamics).

A quick run down:

• Branch 1: AERODYNAMICS branching to:
  Fuel tanks
  Aerodynamics (wings, nose cones, fairings etc)
• Branch 2: PROPULSION branching to:
  Airplane! engines
  Rocket Engines
  Flight Stability to going to Precision Propulsion
• Branch 3: ELECTRICS branching to:
  Electrical systems (batteries solar panels and heat stuff which may move)
  Probes and Comms 
• Branch 4: ENGINEERING branching to:
  Engineering (all the odds and sods, parachutes, heat shields etc etc, landing gear)
  Construction (parts like hulls and decouplers)
• Branch 5: CREWED branching to:
  Crew support (life support)
  commandPods
  LandingPods

I have plans for 3 more tiers which I think will be enough.  This will be the 2.0 with additional nodes.  But in the meantime, enjoy 1.9!

Peace.

[Taki117]

I assume this no longer works with 1.6.x?

[theJesuit]

7 hours ago, Taki117 said:

I assume this no longer works with 1.6.x?

Yes it will.

Peace.

[Slav]

Hello,

awesome mod! I am playing it with Realism Overhaul and a bunch of other mods, with my goal being to have a career as historically accurate as possible. 

I have one suggestion though: I am using the B9 Procedural Wings - Fork mod and I noticed that all of its wings are way high in the tree, node "Advanced Aerodynamics". While this may be appropriate for the space plane (or even supersonic) wing kind, I really feel the basic (early) wing  kind should be at node "Stability" or "Aerodynamics".

Would you mind fixing that?

Thanks!

[theJesuit]

1 hour ago, Slav said:

Hello,

awesome mod! I am playing it with Realism Overhaul and a bunch of other mods, with my goal being to have a career as historically accurate as possible. 

I have one suggestion though: I am using the B9 Procedural Wings - Fork mod and I noticed that all of its wings are way high in the tree, node "Advanced Aerodynamics". While this may be appropriate for the space plane (or even supersonic) wing kind, I really feel the basic (early) wing  kind should be at node "Stability" or "Aerodynamics".

Would you mind fixing that?

Thanks!

Not a problem.  So you want support for B9 procedural wings right?  I'll look into it.

[Slav]

15 minutes ago, theJesuit said:

Not a problem.  So you want support for B9 procedural wings right?  I'll look into it.

Haha, yes, basically I was looking for a more realistic alternative to CTT, which can be combined with RO and RP0. So the more mods are supported, the better!

Thanks again!

[theJesuit]

3 hours ago, Slav said:

Haha, yes, basically I was looking for a more realistic alternative to CTT, which can be combined with RO and RP0. So the more mods are supported, the better!

Thanks again!

Yup.  The 2.0 is being worked on now.

The 2.0 will actually be launched under a new name, Tetrix Tech Tree.  It will support Nertia's mods and eventually KSPIE.

It will have additional nodes, see above posts for a quick rundown.  If I get a chance today I'll put up where I'm at with it.

Peace.

[theJesuit]

Hi everyone.

Tetrix is kinda almost ready for an initial release.  For the first time I've added Kerbal Planetary Base systems as well.  I've done most of Nertia's part mods and even drawn some new icons. I was hoping not to as I'm a priest not a graphic artist or a coder... but I'm okay with the way they turned out.  

The tree isn't 'full' yet though.  I guess that will come with a KSPIE retrofit.

I'm also going to change the cost of the nodes.  Tier 1 starts at 15 points and every node will double.  15 30 60 then upgrade R&D for 120 240 480 then upgrade again for the final three tiers of 960 1920 and 3840.  The final tier 9 will reduce to 5 to replicate the tier 1.  The recommendation will still be to play on 50% science. 

Do people want a Beta release?  Due to MM and save game issues sometimes the techtree breaks if it is modified during a save.

Peace.

Edited June 24, 2019 by theJesuit
Politeness

[FreeThinker]

@theJesuit Please put link to source files on OP

Edited July 1, 2019 by FreeThinker

[theJesuit]

2 hours ago, FreeThinker said:

@theJesuit Please put link to source files on OP

The source files are what they are.  It is only .cfg files.  If icons or textures are present then they are also what they are.  There is no spoon source to speak of.

Peace.

[theJesuit]

Hi everyone,

Yes, I will put this on GitHub at some point, along with the TETRIX TechTree which is the name of the 2.0.  I've changed name as it moves away from stock only nodes, and node values.

So, here is the Tetrix TechTree, a couple of icons need redoing:

Also, I've had a first run at the KSPIE integration - phew.  220 parts.  Still need to rework the upgrades. 49 parts needing upgrades.  KSPIE will need a small update of one file to make everything sweet as.  Here are where things are currently (after a 1.1 pass).  The release will be when I have finished how the upgrades will work with KSPIE as there are not enough tiers for the current raft of upgrades.  I have some thoughts on this, a similar system to the SIMPLEX Propulsion upgrades, but I haven't implemented this yet. 

In addition to all the mods SimplexTechTree has, pretty much all of Nertia's mods are supported: NearFuture, KerbalAtomics, MkIV spaceplane, FarFuture etc.  The Stevie_D IXS warpship, Spacedocks, and Roverdude's Alcubierre Warpdrive are also supported, and before release, Deep Freeze, and possibly OPT.  OPT may be in the first update.

So, as you can see five main trunks of

1. Propulsion
   - aero engines (for plane people)
   - rocketry (for rocket people and eventually integrates with the aero engines at tier 7
   - precsion propulsion splits at tier 4, heads into ion and nuclear and continues to develop
2. Electrical Systems
   - electrics (solar, splitting with nuclear electrics (stock RTG)  this carries up eventually fusion, with the nuclear propulsion splitting off from the rtg)
   - probes and communications eventually pairing with the non-nuclear electric systems
3. Engineering and Construction
   - flight control, continuing to actuators and resource exploitation
   - engineering (landing legs, wheels, heat shields, pretty much anything so that you can landing legs and wheels without crew.  This is a change from where things were placed in Simplex)
   - construction (girders, docking, decouplers, mounts, etc)
4. Tank and Aerodynamic Systems
   - tanks (size steps: 1.25, 1.25, MP+0.625+1.875, 2.5, 3.75, 5, 7.5, 10, ???)
   - xenon and argon tanks step out in tiers 6 and 7
   - aerodynamics (nose cones, fairings, wings, cargo bays, hull sections, etc.)
5. Crewed
   - Support (crew cabins, life support et. al.)
   - Landing and Science (landing pods, ladders, labs)
   - Command (command modules)

The tier 9 end points of the 5 trunks mirror the tier 1 beginning.  They are Interstellar Propulsion, Codified Field Forces and Singularity Oversight, Quantum Engineering, Astronautical Systems, Interstellar Colonization.  The energy/electrics one is 

The idea behind this is that each KSC R&D level will have three tiers.  As such the tier node values have changed.  I'm considered altering the end values to make them "more pleasing", but the idea is that each tier simply doubles the cost:15 < 30

R&D level 1: 15  <  30  <  60 - early flight techs

R&D level 2: 120 <  240 <  480 - ending at around the present age with nukes, ions, and beginning of long term habitation

R&D level 3: 960 <  1920  <  3840 - moving into the future

Giving a total requirement of 87915 science to unlock the tree.  My recommendation is to play with 50% science.  This is effectively doubling the cost of each node, but still allowing for the three sets of three tiers to sit nicely at the upgrade levels.  I didn't want to adjust the science points for experiments, 

Update and released, possibly next weekend, but that always slips.

Peace.

[Wjolcz]

This mod is like that Historical Progression Tech Tree!? :O

YESSSSSSSS! Time to start a new career save!

Edited July 9, 2019 by Wjolcz

[theJesuit]

7 minutes ago, Wjolcz said:

This mod is like that Historical Progression Tech Tree!? :O

YESSSSSSSS! Time to start a new career save!

Have fun and enjoy!

Peace.

[theJesuit]

Hi everyone,

TETRIX is just about there.  So close.  FreeThinker has been amazingly patient in checking so much of the KSPIE integration and we are pleased with the result in the upgrade nodes.  OPT is done with checks from JadeofMaar.

This evening I've patched Kerbalism 3.0.2 and the new sciencey stuff. Whilst I had a small hand in its development I never quite got the hang of patching it properly till now. I'll probably have a go at updating Simplex to 1.10 to cater for Kerbalism once I've done Tetrix.

The science parts have also been moved so that for stock science pretty much each branch has two experiments at some point and each tier has twoish too.  I may look at designing my own experiments at a later point to round off the tech tree in a nice way.

I just need to do some testing with the movement of some experiments to make sure that you can actually get to space on 50% science - in science mode, without all the contract science...

Peace.

[subyng]

Love this mod! Finally a tech tree that makes sense! My only critique is that sometimes two nodes in different branches are too dependent on each other. For example, it doesnt make sense to unlock 2.5m engines without 2.5m fuel tanks. Effectively trying to unlock the next "tier" of rocket takes twice the number of points.

 

[theJesuit]

 

2 hours ago, subyng said:

Love this mod! Finally a tech tree that makes sense! My only critique is that sometimes two nodes in different branches are too dependent on each other. For example, it doesnt make sense to unlock 2.5m engines without 2.5m fuel tanks. Effectively trying to unlock the next "tier" of rocket takes twice the number of points.

 

Cheers.  It is true that, for the most part, you need a couple of nods to do anything. The real exceptions are jet engines and intakes, and the probes and comms. 

There isn't a good line to deliniate where it should stop when you think about it you could just have about half a dozen nodes as you need a command pod or probe with tanks AND engines so they should all be in one node.

In saying this the logic is that tank construction is a different set of principles to engine building I guess.  This way you can potentially unlock any size tank if you only ever want to use the swivel for an entire career. 

Peace.

[Bombaatu]

Any chance that you'll add support for the Wild Blue suite of mods? (Pathfinder, MOLE, DSEV, etc)

[theJesuit]

 

1 hour ago, Bombaatu said:

Any chance that you'll add support for the Wild Blue suite of mods? (Pathfinder, MOLE, DSEV, etc)

You ask and I'll support.  Do you want it with Simplex as it currently is or just with the upcoming and soon to be released extended Tetrix? Or both?

Probably will do both.  I'll do them at the same time as BDB.  

Peace.

[Ryujin no Mai]

As soon as you feel Tetrix is ready-ish for realease, I'd like to try my hand at expanding mod support.

• USI Constellation (MKS, LS, Exp and others)
• More Nertea's mods if they aren't all covered
• CactEye
• Tantares
• CRE
• Tundra Exploration and Technologies
• And more

[theJesuit]

8 hours ago, Ryujin no Mai said:

As soon as you feel Tetrix is ready-ish for realease, I'd like to try my hand at expanding mod support.

• USI Constellation (MKS, LS, Exp and others)
• More Nertea's mods if they aren't all covered
• CactEye
• Tantares
• CRE
• Tundra Exploration and Technologies
• And more

That would be awesome.  I think I may just publish.  I'm stuck in getting KSPIE sorted - I haven't had time to work on it but all the parts are in place... it's the updates which seem funky.

Look for release in the next 24 hours.

Peace.

[Ryujin no Mai]

5 hours ago, theJesuit said:

I'm stuck in getting KSPIE sorted - I haven't had time to work on it but all the parts are in place... it's the updates which seem funky.

You could also just merge some upgrades together? It's a bit more involved... But enough MM magic should do it.

5 hours ago, theJesuit said:

Look for release in the next 24 hours.

Nice!!!

Edited August 31, 2019 by Ryujin no Mai