A clockwork Venusian rover - AREE

[Spaceception]

So I was watching a KSP video about an Eve lander (Matt Lowne), and he mentioned a really interesting project called AREE. Or Automaton Rover for Extreme Environments. And I'm really wondering how I wasn't able to find any thread (Unless it's buried deeply) about this project.  Because instead of using electronics for calculations, it would use a mechanical computer. The rover design would be based around WW1 tanks, and it would transmit data using Morse code. From the first article;

Quote

An orbiting spacecraft could ping the rover using radar. The rover would have a radar target, which if shaped correctly, would act like "stealth technology in reverse," Sauder said. Stealth planes have special shapes that disperse radar signals; Sauder is exploring how to shape these targets to brightly reflect signals instead. Adding a rotating shutter in front of the radar target would allow the rover to turn the bright, reflected spot on and off, communicating much like signal lamps on Navy ships.

 

https://www.nasa.gov/feature/jpl/a-clockwork-rover-for-venus

https://www.nasa.gov/directorates/spacetech/niac/2017_Phase_I_Phase_II/Automaton_Rover_Extreme_Environments

It seems like it wouldn't be fully mechanical, but considering what they're looking at, it's still incredible. It'd be awesome to see an almost 'Steampunk'-esqe lander on Venus someday.

 

Additionally, I wonder what it would entail; using mechanical technology for future space missions. Either as a reliable backup for electronics in case something breaks down, to the more extreme such as an alternative way for sustainable life support systems to make future colonists less dependent on technology. Or to give them ample breathing room as opposed to limited life support like meal bags and CO2 filters.

Edited July 6, 2018 by Spaceception

[Gargamel]

I think you should check the publication date on these articles.   I don't care what they say, that's not the right date. 

While the rover itself may work, they'd be useless.  The goal is to get rid of the electronics that fry too easily on Venus.  So without them, what good would one of these be?  No cameras, no samples, no usable science.   And don't tell me the morse code gimmick would work.  Even if the cameras would survive long enough, how many rez photos are you going to be able to transmit at 1hz?  To amke the thing steam punkishly useful, it'd have to be huge.  And that means heavy, and that means expensive, and that means a giant waste of cash for such a limited use item.

We're better off carpet bombing the planet with short lived cube sat style landers. 

 

[kerbiloid]

Spoiler

7 hours ago, Spaceception said:

The rover design would be based around WW1 tanks

No crew onboard, only well-trained peasants.

(Somebody should feed the steam engine with coal)

Tracks are bad. They will get dry very soon, they will deform and get jammed.

Imho, that's better:
(PrOP = ПрОП, "прибор оценки проходимости", "tool for estimation of terrain travel capability")

PrOP-M.
Delivered to Mars in 1971, connection lost.

Spoiler

https://ru-cosmos.livejournal.com/183565.html
http://www.infuture.ru/news.php?news_id=155
http://insiderobot.blogspot.com/2008/03/blog-post_11.html

Works like this.

Spoiler

PrOP-FP. 
Were on Phobos-1,2. Lost together with them.
Spreads legs, jumps, and rolls. Then again.

Spoiler

 

Or something like this..

Spoiler

 

-

6 hours ago, Gargamel said:

We're better off carpet bombing the planet with short lived cube sat style landers. 

And with heavy nukes. A lot of samples right in the upper atmosphere.

Anyway Venus is the place where things can never go worse.

Edited July 7, 2018 by kerbiloid

[Gargamel]

12 hours ago, kerbiloid said:

And with heavy nukes. A lot of samples right in the upper atmosphere.

Anyway Venus is the place where things can never go worse.

[NSEP]

Why would you need a rover on Venus? The thing will fry within an hour, and probably wont get anywhere, unlike the Moon or Mars, that if done properly, can last for 20 years.

How about we just send an airship/zeppelin there that would drop probes/bombs to collect data and samples from all over Venus? Something like that could explore bits all over the planet within a few months or even weeks. No need for engines too, all it has to do is maintain altitude and be carried by the wind.

There are a whole lot of challenges that come with building a Venus zepellin bomber airship thing, but its more practical than a surface rover to be honest.

[kerbiloid]

Spoiler

7 hours ago, NSEP said:

a Venus zepellin bomber airship

The First Venusian Research Expedition

 

[Gargamel]

What is with everybody wanting to bomb Venus?  When I said carpet bomb Venus, it was a figure of speech!  I meant through out a whole bunch of little landers that will gather data, and melt shortly after.   Not actually bomb the place!   What is with you guys?

[kerbiloid]

Spoiler

41 minutes ago, Gargamel said:

What is with everybody wanting to bomb Venus?  When I said carpet bomb Venus, it was a figure of speech!  I meant through out a whole bunch of little landers that will gather data, and melt shortly after.   Not actually bomb the place!   What is with you guys?

Why bother with a bag of peas when you can take it all at once?

You can collect dust samples from all over the planet without headache.

Just launch a rocket glider to cross the mushroom cloud and immediately return to orbit, if you dislike zeppelines.

Also this is a seismical and atmospherical research.
You'll get a 3d map of both planet and atmosphere.

As a bonus you get several hundred meters deep craters to study with little landers. 
How much time would it take to drill them?

Also, observing long-living isotopes floating in atmosphere for years, you can easily study air flows.

 

Edited July 8, 2018 by kerbiloid

[NSEP]

5 hours ago, Gargamel said:

What is with everybody wanting to bomb Venus?  When I said carpet bomb Venus, it was a figure of speech!  I meant through out a whole bunch of little landers that will gather data, and melt shortly after.   Not actually bomb the place!   What is with you guys?

I meant both.

Bombing Venus is great for collecting dust samples.

[Bill Phil]

10 hours ago, Gargamel said:

What is with everybody wanting to bomb Venus?  When I said carpet bomb Venus, it was a figure of speech!  I meant through out a whole bunch of little landers that will gather data, and melt shortly after.   Not actually bomb the place!   What is with you guys?

Some people still want to nuke Mars...

Welcome to the internet.

As for the topic... yeah, I saw that video by Matt Lowne too. 

It would be much more limited than basically anything else. But it might get something.

[monophonic]

11 hours ago, kerbiloid said:

Also, observing long-living isotopes floating in atmosphere for years, you can easily study air flows.

Yeah, but you have messed up all your isotopic composition experiment results. I don't think the exogeologists will consider that a worthwhile trade even considering the dust samples they got.

[kerbiloid]

Spoiler

30 minutes ago, monophonic said:

Yeah, but you have messed up all your isotopic composition experiment results.

Typically, short-living isotopes decay:
T+1h: 1
T+7h: 1/10
T+48h: 1/100

So, short-living ones won't have been messed.

While long-living isotopes will be giving a measurable picture of global air flows for, say, 1-2 years or so. And it doesn't matter, whose isotopes are where.

And if long-living fallout isotopes can mess with original ones...
Then there had been a nuclear war on Venus.

 

Edited July 8, 2018 by kerbiloid

[LordFerret]

14 hours ago, Gargamel said:

What is with everybody wanting to bomb Venus?  When I said carpet bomb Venus, it was a figure of speech!  I meant through out a whole bunch of little landers that will gather data, and melt shortly after.   Not actually bomb the place!   What is with you guys?

Heh... this reminds me of "Nuke the Moon"

[NSEP]

I don't get why bombing celestial bodies in the name of science is strange and new to you guys.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lander_(spacecraft)#Impactors

Also, don't get 'bomb' and 'nuclear bomb' in a twist. Its like mistaking a fireworks rocket with an ICBM .

[Gargamel]

On 7/7/2018 at 3:59 PM, NSEP said:

The thing will fry within an hour,

Back to the OP... PUT AWAY THOSE BOMBS @Kerbaloid!.... The point of this particular rover is that it is 100% mechanical.   There is nothing to fry, as long as the materials it is made from can take the heat.  The temps at venus's surface are well within the operating range of titanium and it's alloys, which does double duty for mass and strength.   So yeah, there can be a rover, that survives for a long while, on Venus.   But I'm not sure how they would download instructions.....  It would only go in whatever direction it was originally programmed to, straight line or circles, and that's about it.  But beyond that, yeah, it's pointless. 

[monophonic]

1 hour ago, Gargamel said:

But I'm not sure how they would download instructions.....  It would only go in whatever direction it was originally programmed to, straight line or circles, and that's about it.  But beyond that, yeah, it's pointless. 

It would have mechanisms that make it back up and go around if it hits something it cannot climb over. They are also developing silicon carbide based electronics that could withstand the punishment. They have reached 21 hours before failure in a test chamber so far. All this according to the print article I read recently.

[kerbiloid]

2 hours ago, Gargamel said:

But I'm not sure how they would download instructions.....

Should they?

Spoiler

Such rover functionality is anyway limited.

Computers are not always required.
 

Spoiler

I'm not Kerbaloid, I'm another thing.

A typical last error of ghost summoners, mwahahah.

P.S.
Can't find at the moment a relatively old video.
Some group of engineers is testing a giant (2..3 m or so) fully electromechanical running quadruped without a board computer.

P.P.S.
Nuking is not necessary bad.
Sometimes it's a wise compromise between results and equipment lifespan.
When your robot can live for hours, it's a short-term event anyway. Just bombing gives a lot of results at once.

P.P.P.S.
We can put a nuke on the Venusian rover, too. And send it into some cave.
Are there caves on Venus at all?

Edited July 9, 2018 by kerbiloid