Lets play KSP, or wel just forget it.

[PGTART]

Sorry for my relate reply but these problems i see are NOT related to hardware.
Nor software drivers, or antivirus (..but if it would be, then fix THAT dependency).
This PC was bought for Video Editing, 8 cores 3 GHz and SSD's Nvidea graphics etc.

I bought History expansion pack, i support the game.
I rather think its time that the devs start to think of optimizing this game.

Also its slow when moving into or leaving Vab, this game has issues

Here a list of installed mods, I dont see a reason to blame it on Mod Usage (ea game would be boring without them).
"ModuleManager"
 "ShuttleLiftingBodyCormorantAeronology"
 "NearFuturePropulsion"
"MechJeb2"
"USI-EXP"
"USI-LS"
"CommunityTechTree"
"KIS"
 "KSP-AVC"
 "MechJebEmbeddedUniversalFree"
"NearFutureElectrical-Core"
"USI-FTT"
"RasterPropMonitor"
"PrakasaAeroworks"
 "Karbonite"
"CommunityResourcePack"
 "TweakScale"
"USI-MKSLite"
"USITools"
"SmokeScreen"
"Firespitter"
"NearFutureSolar-Core"
"NearFutureProps"
"KarbonitePlus"
 "InfernalRobotics"
 "ModularFlightIntegrator"
 "NearFutureSolar"
"KAS"
"InfernalRobotics-LegacyParts"
"FerramAerospaceResearch"
"USI-UKS-Shared"
"USI-Core"
"FirespitterCore"
"USI-SRV"
"NearFutureSpacecraft"
 "RasterPropMonitor-Core"
 "Chatterer"
"NearFutureElectrical"
 "NearFutureConstruction"
 "FirespitterResourcesConfig"
 "B9PartSwitch"
 

[purpleivan]

31 minutes ago, PGTART said:

Here a list of installed mods, I dont see a reason to blame it on Mod Usage (ea game would be boring without them).
 

Sorry but the game being "boring without them" does not guarantee that any random collections of mods that people choose to install will player nice together/not create loading issues. With a couple of exceptions (one of which was stated to be due to lower end hardware being used at the time), people responding to this thread are not experiencing the kind of loading time issues that you are having.

As a suggestion, try some loading speed tests with some of the mods removed, that might pin down a specific one as being at issue. That might shed some light on the situation, although it's not guaranteed, as it may be that some mods in combination is creating an issue.

Yes the developers are responsible for setting the framework for the addition of mods to the game. However they are not, and realistically cannot, be responsible for ensuring that any combination of the hundreds of them will be quick to load.

Just to get some kind of baseline, how long does it take you to load a vanilla install of the game.

[Tonka Crash]

Work laptop: Dell Latitude e5570 [email protected], 32GB RAM, 500GB SATA SSD

Bone Stock KSP: 57 Seconds   Normal Configuration: 59 Mods 3202 Patches: 2 minutes, 18 Seconds.

Updated for home system:

Home Computer: Hades Canyon NUC [email protected] 16GB RAM, 500GB NVMe SSD

Bone Stock KSP: 42 Seconds   Normal Configuration: 61 Mods 3200 Patches: 1 minute, 44 Seconds,

 

Edited September 6, 2018 by Tonka Crash

[Kerbinchaser]

5 minutes for me. About 150 mods. Figures. 

[PGTART]

Well the list of mods has been changed over time, and its just slow ever.
There dont seam to be conflicts in the mod combinations either.
Its the way how this program works, how it deals with loading data.
Jst do one binary blob data cache load, and dont do 100;s of partial file loads.
Ask user if some mods should be excluded from cache but keep it just one file.
The cache could be compressed on disk (unpacking is often faster then disk IO itself).
Unless mods are added/updated cache could load once in memory and start game (as like a VM was pauzed and started again)

[Zeiss Ikon]

@PGTART With eight cores, I presume you're running either AMD or a Xeon server CPU.  I have an AMD FX-8350 (8 cores, 4.1 GHz turbo), load from SSD, and have nVidia GTx750, and even when my mods are cached it takes several minutes (haven't timed it exactly) to start my RSS/RO/RP-1/Principia game.  MUCH faster to start a stock game, of course; not having to load 8+ GB of extra parts makes a biggish difference.

There's an unavoidable trade-off here, though -- if you want lots of mods to keep the game from being "boring" (matter of opinion, I played for a year and a half with no mods other than Better Burn Time and never got beyond Duna flyby and landing on Gilly), it's going to take longer to start.

Worth noting that putting all the mods into a single cache file could cause problems; in some ways it'd be like leaving the game running.  I find (with 58 mods and 55,849 patches for RO) that my 1.3.1 game will get glitchy after 5-6 hours, and crash after seven or so.  Loading it all fresh from the original files makes it work "like new" again.

[Sharpy]

Oh c'mon. Switch the computer on, start KSP, go unpack groceries, use the bathroom, make a tea, plug the phone and netbook into chargers, etc etc. Didn't count how long it loads, but I'd guesstimate 8 minutes or so, easily filled.

Mod it till it breaks too. It was around a minute without mods.

[PGTART]

Some analysis, i wrote a program to read filesize as per type in all mod dirs  (coded in C#).

The total was just 720MB, as i told earlier i do video editing, for me thats a small size.
Performing a copy or so of a file that size takes just a few secconds.
On a system width 24GB of memory copying that to memory is even faster (only 1 time disk IO).
Well some data has to be copied to GPU as well ..but that wouldnt explain the huge delays. (if.... it's done properly).

Analysis shows filetype , the size, and the count of that type
Here is the result :

.dds 399,00 Mb 1036
.mu 149,00 Mb 1114
.png 120,00 Mb 711
.wav 45,00 Mb 53
.mbm 26,00 Mb 33
.ksp 11,00 Mb 155
.tif 10,00 Mb 1
.ogg 10,00 Mb 254
.dll 6,00 Mb 43
.pdf 3,00 Mb 1
.cfg 3,00 Mb 1341
.tga 1,00 Mb 14
.pdb 1,00 Mb 8
.truecolor 321,00 Kb 28
.txt 271,00 Kb 76
.mdb 196,00 Kb 5
.md 66,00 Kb 4
.log 22,00 Kb 1
.version 17,00 Kb 30
.craft 15,00 Kb 1
._cfg 8,00 Kb 2
.nocfg 6,00 Kb 2
.xml 3,00 Kb 9
.Bac 1,00 Kb 1
.config 0,00 Kb 2
.meta 0,00 Kb 1
.pos 0,00 Kb 5
Total size of it all = 792,00 Mb

[maceemiller]

forget playing ksp....never!

seriously though,  I play with the RSS mod currently and have about 30 mods.

it takes around 3 to 4 minutes to load up which isnt too bad I think on my :-

HP Elite Book 8440p -- 2.4 GHZ -- 8GB RAM -- NVIDIA NVS 300m .....a complete spud!!

i run it on a separate partition on Windows 7 running on full graphic settings without too much lag.

maybe background issues....not defraged........

in any case... this game is more than worth the wait ;p

 

 

Edited September 6, 2018 by maceemiller

[PGTART]

Just for the fun of it, take some large video file,  ea 1Gig or so, and copy it to another disk, and time this.
Since disk IO is slow (yes even SSD), (as compared to running CPU memory instructions).

If all were optimal coded and if some caching mechanism was used,  that time can be, "if all was well coded",    be the time the game would need to load.
I'm speaking here as a developer, i'd advice KSP devs to create such a caching system.

For most files its not needed to read line by line the settings, eventually once red its a binary blob of data (save that, and offer to load from that).
With some exceptions ea save games.

Also check the code for other dependancies (intializations of core parts) that could cause loading delays.

[Zeiss Ikon]

Well, perhaps you should apply for those software engineer positions Squad has been advertising.

 

[Kernel Kraken]

Try CCleaner. It's a useful tool for clearing useless junk in the disk. You might get faster loading times. It was recently hacked though, so try to see if it's still useless.

[Ultimate Steve]

Hehehehehehehehe.

Back when I played on a laptop, KSP RSS RO RP-0 0.90 took 45 minutes to load.

[Snark]

Moving to Technical Support for modded KSP.

@PGTART, if I understand you correctly, your basic issue is "I'm running KSP with <certain set of mods> and the game takes 10+ minutes to start up", correct?

Out of curiosity, how long does it take to start up if you just run the stock game, with no mods installed?

(No, I'm not suggesting that you run the stock game-- I'm just asking to get a data point.  i.e. is it the game itself that's slow to load on your system, or is it all the mods that are slowing it down.  That's useful to know, when trying to narrow down the problem.)

[Xd the great]

Well, @Snark has a point. Also, try uninstalling visual mods and parts mods.

[PGTART]

Its not a point... properly caching is the answer.
i can easily copy 10 gig in under a minute between SSD's, while these Mods are only  700mb.
It also means i kan put 10Gig in under a minute in memory too (as i do often when editing video)
With a proper caching mechanism this game could load in a minute.
The absence of such a caching system, requires the game to load and convert and to verify stuff, each game start.
Sadly it seams of no interest to ksp devs.

 

[Gargamel]

40 minutes ago, PGTART said:

Sadly it seams of no interest to ksp devs.

Yet again, another complaint that suggests that the devs completely strip the game down to it's bare bones, or even starting anew, and rebuilding it from basically scratch.   KSP2 anyone?   I'm not knocking on your complaint/comment.   You just have to understand the base of the game when it was originally written, it was not created by a full dev team designing a game, it was a dev team that was created around a growing game.   They, back in the early days, obviously made some choices they would not make again.  And the current dev team is now stuck dealing with these limitations.  Some of these fixes, including better loading algorythms, are really not feasibly fixed without just starting over from scratch, and that's a whole other discussion. 

[PGTART]

@Gargamel
Don't put words in my mouth that i never spoke, dont frame me.
I'm into development as well, when I see poor designs or broken stuff, i'll improve it, that's work what coders 'should' do.

I can only guess that current development is too much driven at 'new markets', and they're forgetting something valuable.
Their current market, I don't know the wages of the coders, but i would assume that a game like KSP, could have a continuous income, and serious Fan developers. So use part of  the income for continuously improving, and make KSP2 or KSP 1.5.0
In development one cannot be stuck by poor decisions (only by poor management), just let coders do what they are best at.

 

[Kernel Kraken]

I feel like it's your mods. I have seven mods installed and I get minute load times, but that seems like a lot.

[Tyko]

On 9/12/2018 at 2:29 PM, PGTART said:

@Gargamel
Don't put words in my mouth that i never spoke, dont frame me.
I'm into development as well, when I see poor designs or broken stuff, i'll improve it, that's work what coders 'should' do.

I can only guess that current development is too much driven at 'new markets', and they're forgetting something valuable.
Their current market, I don't know the wages of the coders, but i would assume that a game like KSP, could have a continuous income, and serious Fan developers. So use part of  the income for continuously improving, and make KSP2 or KSP 1.5.0
In development one cannot be stuck by poor decisions (only by poor management), just let coders do what they are best at.

 

with respect, you are drawing conclusions about the game dev's motivations...that's a lot like "putting words in their mouths".

@SQUAD has continued to invest a lot of effort into improving the game. I don't always agree with what they choose to tackle and ignore, but I can tell they care and they're working. The last several weekly updates gave a lot of info on things they are working on.

I believe @Gargamel's point (not to put words in your mouth ) was that some things are really hard to fix after a game launches and how a game manages memory isn't something that can just be swapped out easily

Edited September 17, 2018 by Tyko

[Gargamel]

1 hour ago, Tyko said:

I believe @Gargamel's point (not to put words in your mouth ) was that some things are really hard to fix after a game launches and how a game manages memory isn't something that can just be swapped out easily

Pretty much, but after his response, I figured I'd be better off in other threads. 

[Sharpy]

Well, it's closer to 15 minutes, not 8, now that I checked.

This is KSP loading...

And this is when I call it quits.

15.4 out of 16GB...