[1.3.0] Kerbal Engineer Redux 1.1.3.0 (2017-05-28)

[Mapoko]

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Edited May 7, 2015 by Mapoko

[Padishar]

First off, I've never posted on these forums, but thank you for making an amazing mod. I've turned about 8 people on to the game and I've always said "Go screw around with rockets for a while. Then download Kerbal Engineer and we'll talk." So I've noticed the KER dV calculations are off in the in-flight HUD. By a factor of 2 as far as I can tell. I've tested this three times in the same manner: 1st- rocket to achieve orbit around kerbal, running about 90/80 on the orbit. Then I've tried to hit the mun using the in game system. Generally, with the rocket I built, it says about 30-40 seconds burn. KER says it will take 18-20 seconds(and yes, reading from the right heading, not the 1/2 time). Then I go to burn at half time and end up having to burn the whole 30-40 seconds(basically the stock calculations are correct).

Is anyone else having this problem with KER?

The rocket I'm using is pretty much stock parts with a science jr. in the center and a three fold symmetric mk1 command pod/5 tanks and LV-T45 engines around it. The only non stock is the kerbal engineer part thrown on there. No other mods are installed at the moment. No fairings, none of the new parts.

TL:DR some problems with the in flight KER. Calculations from in game non-atmospheric trajectory do no agree with the in game calculations. In game calculations are correct.

I will run some careful tests of the deltaV calculations a bit later. If the error is really a factor of 2 then I suspect there is a problem with the mass flow rate calculations after the changes that were required for KSP 1.0, e.g. it may be only taking one of the resources into account in some way...

[EmperorZelos]

Would you also know the cause of it not showing up for me?

[bdito]

I would assume it's an installation error or a corrupt file. Delete the KerbalEngineer folder from your GameData folder. Redownload it and reinstall.

[SkyMarshal]

This is probably related to the issue the nuclear spaceplane ran into, but the suicide burn information for nuclear powered vessels is... totally wrong. I pancake'd poor Jeb into the Mun twice before I realised what was happening.

[Qigon]

I'm still on v1.0.16.3 (I update from CKAN only) on KSP 1.0, and I noticed TWR readings are off when trying to launch - I couldn't lift even if TWR read something about 1.5. Activating the second stage made it go up, but not as fast as it should. I'd guess it's related to the dv issue?

Also, terminal speed felt wrong. While using mechjeb to help me ascent with terminal speed on, it would limit my speed to about 100 m/s while KER would say terminal speed was 3x to 5x bigger than my current speed.

[Padishar]

I'm still on v1.0.16.3 (I update from CKAN only) on KSP 1.0, and I noticed TWR readings are off when trying to launch - I couldn't lift even if TWR read something about 1.5. Activating the second stage made it go up, but not as fast as it should. I'd guess it's related to the dv issue?

Also, terminal speed felt wrong. While using mechjeb to help me ascent with terminal speed on, it would limit my speed to about 100 m/s while KER would say terminal speed was 3x to 5x bigger than my current speed.

Firstly, you should update to the latest version and see if the problem persists. If it does then we will need more information so we can reproduce what you are seeing, e.g. details of what engines you are using and the total mass of the vessel at the very least but it would be much more helpful if you could upload a (stock) craft file.

As for terminal velocity, it is definitely higher than 100m/s for any reasonable rocket so I would suspect there is an issue in MJ (though there may also be an issue in KER). Again, more details and/or a craft file will be needed to do anything about it...

[Padishar]

I will run some careful tests of the deltaV calculations a bit later. If the error is really a factor of 2 then I suspect there is a problem with the mass flow rate calculations after the changes that were required for KSP 1.0, e.g. it may be only taking one of the resources into account in some way...

Well, I've run various experiments and haven't seen any issues like you describe. Are you able to upload a save file from just before one of these dodgy burns?

[BudgetHedgehog]

I'm still on v1.0.16.3 (I update from CKAN only) on KSP 1.0, and I noticed TWR readings are off when trying to launch - I couldn't lift even if TWR read something about 1.5. Activating the second stage made it go up, but not as fast as it should. I'd guess it's related to the dv issue?

Chances are you're looking at the vacuum info - press the 'Atmospheric' button when you design your lifter stage to find the pad TWR.

[LordZowy]

Hey all.

Many thanks for continuing to support this mod. I wish it was part of the core game but i'll keep coming back.

I'm having an issue with it in 1.0.2. I'm using the latest 1.0.16.6 but its not showing up in the VAB. Worked fine in 1.0. Is it just me?

[Qigon]

Oops newbie error here! I was used to having similar atm/vac readings for that rocket motor in 0.9 but now they're so inefficient at sea level! So apparently this mystery is solved.

About terminal velocity, I'll have to check later in more detail.

[EmperorZelos]

I would assume it's an installation error or a corrupt file. Delete the KerbalEngineer folder from your GameData folder. Redownload it and reinstall.

I did that, still the same thing

[smunisto]

Seems like I am having some trouble with KER. The craft that produced it was quite funky, and getting the desired orbit was very hard - It's basically a Mainsail stuck to a 2m pod. And I had to set up a free return from Minmus, the margin was less than 0.3 m/s dV. Maybe KER got confused due to the rounding errors?

Here's the output_log

[Padishar]

Seems like I am having some trouble with KER. The craft that produced it was quite funky, and getting the desired orbit was very hard - It's basically a Mainsail stuck to a 2m pod. And I had to set up a free return from Minmus, the margin was less than 0.3 m/s dV. Maybe KER got confused due to the rounding errors?

Here's the output_log

You'll need to give us more information about what your problem actually is, e.g. details of the vessel, what you were trying to do, what happened and what you think should have happened instead. From your description of "a Mainsail stuck to a 2m pod" I wouldn't expect it to have any deltaV.

[smunisto]

Well, I never thought pictures speak more than an output log, but here:

https://bg3.biz/cloud/index.php/s/Itfe2iTJ2cBtziR

That's the craft.

Pic is taken with regard to another issue(Planetshine Exception flood and disappearing auto-shrouds on stock and non-stock parts), but I did use the same craft(in a different game instance) when the issue with KER appeared.

The problem was that after I put it in orbit, it turned out I will not have enough dV to actually land on Minmus due to inefficient ascent and too much wasted dV. What it had enough dV for though was just enough for a free return pass-by Minmus.

And by just enough it means it would be left with 14 dV after the ejection burn from Kerbin(so little for a Mainsail, that if I reduced the engine thrust output via the menu slider, it wouldn't ignite).

So, I made a maneuver node for the ejection burn from Kerbin and that is when I noticed the KER exceptions. After a few switches between the Map and Flight scenes parts of the UI disappeared(for example I got only the maneuver dV bar, no dV and time to node reading), the time acceleration bar was empty, instead of the regular triangular indicators of time warp level, etc.

After this I restarted the game. When I came back, everything was normal again and KER was not spitting up exceptions.

So I thought it was one of those moments where the rounding errors come in effect and this affected KER somehow, because the orbits and maneuver nodes were "twitching" in their favorite way when the maneuvers are too tightly planned(within less than 1 m/s)

[Padishar]

Well, your output log doesn't have any kind of description of what you were doing or what your vessel is like. However, in this case, your log does show that you were getting various exceptions in KER and core game code though it doesn't look like this was caused by KER in any way.

It appears that the various exceptions in your log are related to the stock game having a problem with the vessel's orbit.

KerbalEngineer -> at ManeuverNode.GetBurnVector (.Orbit currentOrbit) [0x00000] in <filename unknown>:0

at KerbalEngineer.Flight.Readouts.Orbital.ManoeuvreNode.ManoeuvreProcessor.Update () [0x00000] in <filename unknown>:0

at KerbalEngineer.Flight.FlightEngineerCore.UpdateModules () [0x00000] in <filename unknown>:0

This is an exception being caught by KER and reported. The exception is happening inside core KSP code that is supposed to return the burn vector of a manoeuvre node object.

NullReferenceException: Object reference not set to an instance of an object

at ManeuverNode.GetBurnVector (.Orbit currentOrbit) [0x00000] in <filename unknown>:0

at NavBallBurnVector.LateUpdate () [0x00000] in <filename unknown>:0

This is the same exception as the above one but in totally core KSP code (NavBallBurnVector is the KSP class that handles the burn gauge around the right side of the navball).

ArgumentOutOfRangeException: Argument is out of range.

Parameter name: index

at System.Collections.Generic.List`1[PatchRendering].get_Item (Int32 index) [0x00000] in <filename unknown>:0

at OrbitTargeter.ReferencePatchSelect () [0x00000] in <filename unknown>:0

at OrbitTargeter.LateUpdate () [0x00000] in <filename unknown>:0

This is another exception in core KSP code when it tries to get an invalid item out of a list (index either negative or greater than the length of the list)

The line of KER code that results in the exception looks like this (and I suspect the line in NavBallBurnVector.LateUpdate looks very similar):

            TotalDeltaV = node.GetBurnVector(FlightGlobals.ship_orbit).magnitude;

Other functions/properties of the node object work fine so I suspect that either the FlightGlobals.ship_orbit is null or the object it refers to is corrupted in some way. The KER code could be made more tolerant of this bad state but this wouldn't fix the underlying problem (which looks like a stock KSP bug). Did you notice if your orbit line in map view had disappeared? Have you changed your patched conic rendering options from the defaults?

[smunisto]

Well, your output log doesn't have any kind of description of what you were doing or what your vessel is like. However, in this case, your log does show that you were getting various exceptions in KER and core game code though it doesn't look like this was caused by KER in any way.

It appears that the various exceptions in your log are related to the stock game having a problem with the vessel's orbit.

KerbalEngineer -> at ManeuverNode.GetBurnVector (.Orbit currentOrbit) [0x00000] in <filename unknown>:0

at KerbalEngineer.Flight.Readouts.Orbital.ManoeuvreNode.ManoeuvreProcessor.Update () [0x00000] in <filename unknown>:0

at KerbalEngineer.Flight.FlightEngineerCore.UpdateModules () [0x00000] in <filename unknown>:0

This is an exception being caught by KER and reported. The exception is happening inside core KSP code that is supposed to return the burn vector of a manoeuvre node object.

NullReferenceException: Object reference not set to an instance of an object

at ManeuverNode.GetBurnVector (.Orbit currentOrbit) [0x00000] in <filename unknown>:0

at NavBallBurnVector.LateUpdate () [0x00000] in <filename unknown>:0

This is the same exception as the above one but in totally core KSP code (NavBallBurnVector is the KSP class that handles the burn gauge around the right side of the navball).

ArgumentOutOfRangeException: Argument is out of range.

Parameter name: index

at System.Collections.Generic.List`1[PatchRendering].get_Item (Int32 index) [0x00000] in <filename unknown>:0

at OrbitTargeter.ReferencePatchSelect () [0x00000] in <filename unknown>:0

at OrbitTargeter.LateUpdate () [0x00000] in <filename unknown>:0

This is another exception in core KSP code when it tries to get an invalid item out of a list (index either negative or greater than the length of the list)

The line of KER code that results in the exception looks like this (and I suspect the line in NavBallBurnVector.LateUpdate looks very similar):

            TotalDeltaV = node.GetBurnVector(FlightGlobals.ship_orbit).magnitude;

Other functions/properties of the node object work fine so I suspect that either the FlightGlobals.ship_orbit is null or the object it refers to is corrupted in some way. The KER code could be made more tolerant of this bad state but this wouldn't fix the underlying problem (which looks like a stock KSP bug). Did you notice if your orbit line in map view had disappeared? Have you changed your patched conic rendering options from the defaults?

Patched conics have been changed, yes, Unfortunately I don't remember if the orbit disappeared or not. At a certain point I was unable to add maneuver nodes to the orbit though, this is when I checked the debug log.

[Hodo]

I am having an issue with KER in KSP1.0.2 with NuFAR installed in career mode. None of the KER displays are showing up in career mode but they show up in sandbox. Is there something I am missing, I have the tech tree fully done.

I know this isn't a bug more of a user error I am sure of it.

[Padishar]

I am having an issue with KER in KSP1.0.2 with NuFAR installed in career mode. None of the KER displays are showing up in career mode but they show up in sandbox. Is there something I am missing, I have the tech tree fully done.

I know this isn't a bug more of a user error I am sure of it.

It sounds like you probably have it in career mode where the flight engineer requires either an engineer on board the vessel, a KER part attached to the vessel or a level 3 tracking station (sandbox has a level 3 tracking station by default). Assuming that KER shows up in the VAB then click the settings button in the window and change the flight engineer mode from "Career" to "Partless" (or, alternatively, live with the intended career behaviour and do one of the required things).

If the KER window doesn't show up in the VAB (make sure you have at least one part placed) then please upload an output_log.txt file as that may give some clues as to what is going wrong...

[Mister Spock]

I have a question about the "orbital period" display. My dim recollection is that I used to be able to show my own vessel's orbital period (under "vessel" or "orbit") and my target's orbital period (under "rendezvous"). But now, when I enable "orbital period" in any of the info windows, it always displays my current vessel's orbital period. I'd like to see my orbital period under, say, "Orbit" (or "Vessel"), and my target's period under "Rendezvous". (This helps me gauge how to set orbits so that one vessel overtakes the other, for rendez-vous purposes.) But I don't see a way to do that now. Am I missing something?

[Hodo]

It sounds like you probably have it in career mode where the flight engineer requires either an engineer on board the vessel, a KER part attached to the vessel or a level 3 tracking station (sandbox has a level 3 tracking station by default). Assuming that KER shows up in the VAB then click the settings button in the window and change the flight engineer mode from "Career" to "Partless" (or, alternatively, live with the intended career behaviour and do one of the required things).

If the KER window doesn't show up in the VAB (make sure you have at least one part placed) then please upload an output_log.txt file as that may give some clues as to what is going wrong...

I think it is a level 3 tracking station issue. I figured it was user errror. LOL!

[Wintersdark]

In another thread, we were discussing landing, and KER's Suicide Burn readouts came out. People where referencing "Time till suicide burn", but I've been unable to find that option when editing an existing display or making a new one. I can only find Suicide Burn Altitude, Distance, and dV (All three under Vessel).

Where can I find Time Till Burn? It would really make landing a lot easier.

Also: Suicide Burn Altitude and Suicide Burn Distance: What exactly do these mean?

[Farlo]

With the most recent update KER is not showing up at all in the main menu or VAB/SPH at all. When flying crafts, the icon in the top-right bar thing shows up but is dark grey and click-through, I can't activate it. I just re-downloaded, deleted the old KerbalEngineer folder, verified the game files through Steam, and re-installed it and it shows up fine in AVC (as shown below). Any idea why this is happening? It used to work about a week ago but I guess an update killed it? Thanks!

Addon list:

KSP: 1.0.2 (Win32) - Unity: 4.6.4f1 - OS: Windows 7 Service Pack 1 (6.1.7601) 64bit

Chatterer - 0.9.1.86

Kerbal Engineer Redux - 1.0.16.6

KSP-AVC Plugin - 1.1.5

RealChute - 1.3.2.3

Kerbal Alarm Clock - 3.3.1.1

Alternate Resource Panel - 2.7.1

Wider Contracts App - 1.1.2

[Superfluous J]

Also: Suicide Burn Altitude and Suicide Burn Distance: What exactly do these mean?

Time should be in with those other 2, if it exists. I use Distance myself.

It's literally the distance between you and the suicide burn. When it hits 0, you hit the gas. Or, if you're a wuss (like me) hit he gas slightly before it hits zero lest you risk exploding in a firey ball at the surface.

[Wintersdark]

Time should be in with those other 2, if it exists. I use Distance myself.

It's literally the distance between you and the suicide burn. When it hits 0, you hit the gas. Or, if you're a wuss (like me) hit he gas slightly before it hits zero lest you risk exploding in a firey ball at the surface.

Yeah, doesn't appear to exist. I was playing with Distance, and it's working well enough for me... though, I'm also suffering from wuss issues. It wants me to start my burn really close to the ground. But it seems to work.