Proper Submarine Parts

[Chel]

Hello, currently in Kerbal Space Program, the only way to make a submarine is through specialised parts (from mods), or from filling ore tanks and screwing with physics to get below the surface. But what about proper submarine parts? Actual ballast tanks? Command pods? It would be nice to see SQUAD implement at least some sort of system to create nautical craft in the game. Thoughts?

[Phreakish]

I want to disagree, but laythe has a mostly water surface - NASA has concepts for missions into celestial bodies of liquid (such as on Europa), so it would follow that at least some support of parts which are designed for submersion would make sense.

It would also offer expanded biomes and a chance for expanded science sensors and more modes of gameplay. Also offers additional tracks for DLC offerings, though the mechanics and biomes should, IMO, still be included in stock, even if only to some limited depth. 

[The Aziz]

6 hours ago, The_Cat_In_Space said:

Space 

You said it yourself. This kind of thread has been here before and I still say the same. Submarines have very little to do with space exploration so their implementation wouldn't make any sense. Only a minority of ksp players do anything underwater (there is not much to do there either way, and transportation is much faster through gas than liquid), so... There is a Mod for That™

And there are only three bodies with any sort of liquid on surface. Not much, isn't it?

Before you go where I think you'd go - yes, plane parts are here - aside from atmospheric planes, they're used for space planes. You can't go to space with a submarine. Rovers are slow, but useful when moving from one side of surface base to the other. Or for collecting science in places where biome skipping is not really possible. In submarine, there is water.

Tl;Dr use mods, until the game is developed to the point where sea exploration makes sense.

[Chel]

4 minutes ago, The Aziz said:

You said it yourself. This kind of thread has been here before and I still say the same. Submarines have very little to do with space exploration so their implementation wouldn't make any sense. Only a minority of ksp players do anything underwater (there is not much to do there either way, and transportation is much faster through gas than liquid), so... There is a Mod for That™

And there are only three bodies with any sort of liquid on surface. Not much, isn't it?

Before you go where I think you'd go - yes, plane parts are here - aside from atmospheric planes, they're used for space planes. You can't go to space with a submarine. Rovers are slow, but useful when moving from one side of surface base to the other. Or for collecting science in places where biome skipping is not really possible. In submarine, there is water.

Tl;Dr use mods, until the game is developed to the point where sea exploration makes sense.

Ok, what about exploring the ocean of Laythe or Eve to collect science? It's a space program because Kerbals are landing on the surface and exploring the planet, collecting science, and all that good stuff

[KerikBalm]

Subs on Laythe can already be done, not super elegantly, but they can be done: both neutrally buoyant and dynamic divers.

Eve: not so much... We lack an engine for use on a world without an O2 atmosphere.

Add in an electric prop, and its fine. Ore tanks are essentially ballast tanks, but one that can fill itself up with ballast from water would be nice.

Getting a submarine to laythe is most definitely a space program endeavor.

Here's a very old simple mod I did to make submarines (electric propulsion, ballast tanks), only used text editing:

A less old version, just ore tanks instead of modded ballast tanks... so just the engine is modded:

and it should count as a space program... look at how I got it there:

Spoiler

For Laythe, all stock subs work, not for Eve, not for worlds like Tekto or my modded version of Eve with shallow oceans (but no O2)

Another modded sub, this time I recolored the sub specific parts:

And an all stock sub (save for some life support supply parts), brought to Laythe (modded, including 3x resize) by an all stock craft:

 

Deploying:

 

Descending:

 

At the bottom:

Ascending, getting ready to recover:

Up up and away, back to space, a craft that can send a sub to anywhere at the bottom of Laythe's ocean.... because I don't want to constantly refuel the sub itself, slowly slogging through the water:

[KerbolExplorer]

On 11/1/2018 at 11:07 AM, The Aziz said:

You said it yourself. This kind of thread has been here before and I still say the same. Submarines have very little to do with space exploration so their implementation wouldn't make any sense. Only a minority of ksp players do anything underwater (there is not much to do there either way, and transportation is much faster through gas than liquid), so... There is a Mod for That™

And there are only three bodies with any sort of liquid on surface. Not much, isn't it?

Before you go where I think you'd go - yes, plane parts are here - aside from atmospheric planes, they're used for space planes. You can't go to space with a submarine. Rovers are slow, but useful when moving from one side of surface base to the other. Or for collecting science in places where biome skipping is not really possible. In submarine, there is water.

Tl;Dr use mods, until the game is developed to the point where sea exploration makes sen

Yes,and jet engines as well have little to do with space exploration

[Aeroboi]

I never understood why the altimeter digits went into the red when altitude became negative. Can we have that with a navball toggle so we can see amount of meters above seabed also?

I always wanted to know how low to the ground I were. While it completely depends on how 'good' you build your sub mine can be slow and cumbersome so I want to see the seabed coming before it met me. Such seabed altitude level readings are good for science and giggles anyway.

This is not a hijack but I just wanted to add this to it.

When submarine parts do come we need ballast tanks. Not sure how they'd work in KSP but we need one. On another note, we don't need a impeller but what is a sloop *cough* ship without a impeller. Now imagine everyone tweaking the impeller so it can be used as aircraft propellers

Edited November 3, 2018 by Aeroboi

[Gargamel]

8 hours ago, Aeroboi said:

Can we have that with a navball toggle so we can see amount of meters above seabed also?

Let's go for an ASL/AGL toggle first, although.... that might serve both purposes. 

[Kroslev Kerman]

well you can use hyperedit to fill and empty ore tanks as ballast because proper batlast is not implemented yet i actually use Hyperedit for my Submarines(only the ore i dont cheat when getting the actual sub there just for the diving k?)

[Chel]

2 hours ago, Kroslev Kerman said:

well you can use hyperedit to fill and empty ore tanks as ballast because proper batlast is not implemented yet i actually use Hyperedit for my Submarines(only the ore i dont cheat when getting the actual sub there just for the diving k?)

I'm talking about submarine parts being implemented into the stock game. Not about using hyperedit to cheat

[Kroslev Kerman]

yeah but you can do that to make your submarines float or sink

[The Aziz]

Okay but what parts do you need  aside from the obvious ballast tanks? Cupola pod serves as a cockpit very well, and we won't get any kind of propeller because I see threads asking for them every month or so and still no signs of possible implementation. 

Edited November 4, 2018 by The Aziz

[Kerbinchaser]

I don't think that specialist parts are needed. People who build submarines are able to use the current stock and modded parts to make some pretty cool stuff. If you experiment, you can figure it out. 

[pandaman]

I would like to see a few submarine parts...

Maybe 2 sizes each of ballast tanks and an underwater propulsion option (so i don't need to  use jets and 'pretend'). 

Beyond that though i don't think it needs much, if anything part wise.

Underwater anomalies and monoliths would also give extra challenges and interest.

[fourfa]

Underwater biomes, and special underwater science lab research would be lovely

[KerikBalm]

On 11/3/2018 at 5:33 PM, Aeroboi said:

I never understood why the altimeter digits went into the red when altitude became negative. Can we have that with a navball toggle so we can see amount of meters above seabed also?

On 11/4/2018 at 2:14 AM, Gargamel said:

Let's go for an ASL/AGL toggle first, although.... that might serve both purposes. 

I should check if the radar altimeters in the cockpits work when underwater. We currently have an AGL system, its just hidden in the IVA views of specific parts. I believe that KER can give that information.

It is useful, because that deployable sub that I posted above had multiple instances of hitting the bottom nose first and losing the docking port (requiring a revert). Some headlights would also be good for those purposes

21 hours ago, The_Cat_In_Space said:

I'm talking about submarine parts being implemented into the stock game. Not about using hyperedit to cheat

One doesn't need hyperedit... you can send the Ore tanks pre-filled, or you can fill them with drills. Something like hyperedit is good for messing around in sandbox to test various iterations of a design, however.

16 hours ago, Lo Var Lachland said:

I don't think that specialist parts are needed. People who build submarines are able to use the current stock and modded parts to make some pretty cool stuff. If you experiment, you can figure it out. 

I have not been able to make a stock sub that works on Eve, or any other mod world with oceans but no O2 (I still like to make stock designs, even on mod worlds). We can make stock propellers for flying around on Eve, but they don't work underwater.

[Kerbinchaser]

10 hours ago, KerikBalm said:

I have not been able to make a stock sub that works on Eve, or any other mod world with oceans but no O2 (I still like to make stock designs, even on mod worlds). We can make stock propellers for flying around on Eve, but they don't work underwater.

1

Yes but I don't think the developers of a "space" simulator are going to add sub-parts. I just doubt it's something that they think is necessary. 

[KerikBalm]

All we need is an efficient propulsion that works in atmospheres without oxygen.

It could be an electric fan, a mono propellant reciprocating engine, a turborocket/air augmented rocket (would also be useful for ascent vehicles on Eve, unlike the other two, so usefull for getting to space from bodies with thick atmospheres but no O2).

The rest is already in game, as my screenshots demonstrated.