Submarine mechanics

[Duck McFuddle]

I know of many KSP players who have created submarines to explore the oceans of Kerbin, Eve, or Laythe. Personally, I think it would be fun to have some kind of stock mechanics for this - perhaps some science experiments for underwater exploration. Also, right now propellers are really hard to make since you have to make your own spinning joint. All of this could maybe be in a DLC as well. Don't people say that the oceans are harder to explore than outer space? Pressure, non-solar electricity and darkness could all become issues now. Overall I just think that this is a huge untapped resource for Squad to explore. 

[ARS]

This is very similar to "we need to have propellers" thread. While I agree that building submarine is fun, it's highly unlikely that there'll be a stock submarine parts. The main issue is the very niche usage (only on 3 planets) and general difficulty in maneuvering underwater (water is ridiculously dense in KSP). Only 1 mod that I've known having a ocean-related science exploration instrument based on depth (Dmagic). You don't need a stock propeller, there's already one, see that high bypass turbofan? Goliath? Set it to reverse thrust and put it behind as an impromptu ducted propeller. People has been building submarines using ore tanks and jet engines and for some people, jury-rigging a submarine from rocket parts is a lot more fun. Oceans in KSP is basically a splashdown site, and besides, no one in real life has sent any actual submarine (even underwater probes) to another planet

[The Aziz]

10 hours ago, ARS said:

no one in real life has sent any actual submarine (even underwater probes) to another planet

Yet. See, we would have to make quite a big hole to drop anything into Europa ocean, assuming it's there.

But, dear @OP, you could use search feature, cuz such thread was there not long ago:

And I said it there. Majority of players wouldn't even use that.

[Rocket In My Pocket]

Submarine mechanics?

Why, did something break?

Hope they don't over charge you.

Edited December 23, 2018 by Rocket In My Pocket

[Duck McFuddle]

16 hours ago, ARS said:

The main issue is the very niche usage (only on 3 planets) and general difficulty in maneuvering underwater (water is ridiculously dense in KSP).

 

Yes, only three planets (Or moons) have oceans, but if you search "KSP submarine" on YouTube, you get tons of results.

16 hours ago, ARS said:

People has been building submarines using ore tanks and jet engines and for some people, jury-rigging a submarine from rocket parts is a lot more fun. Oceans in KSP is basically a splashdown site, and besides, no one in real life has sent any actual submarine (even underwater probes) to another planet

2

Well, I didn't just ask for stock sub parts - what about simple science experiments that can get you lots of science from the ocean floor. Yes, the oceans right now aren't very useful (As you said, just splashdown sites) but part of what I was trying to say was that a submarine update wouldn't just add parts, but also mechanics such as pressure and making the oceans more realistic and submarine-able. 

As for this being a thread, the one Aziz shows is asking for parts and not mechanics. I think parts would be easier, BUT yes it is fun to scrap together a submarine from rocket parts. So the least Squad could do would be making the oceans a little more explorable for players that do like to go underwater. 

[Rocket In My Pocket]

Well, we don't really need new instruments for doing science in the ocean, we just need new biomes there for the existing instruments.

Pressure is partially implemented, you can turn it on in the options but every part maxes out at 400m. Hopefully at some point Squad will give the all the parts a unique value.

I love the idea of building things the game wasn't really meant to support and it's great that we can, but of all the possible updates/DLC's we could get, I don't think a Submarine based one would be the best seller.

Edited December 23, 2018 by Rocket In My Pocket

[pandaman]

Definitely in favour of expanding the submarine aspect, there are  at least 'concept plans' for exploring the oceabs on Europa etc so it's not a silly idea.

 I wouldn't want a huge amount of dedicated parts.  Ballast tanks and electric underwater propellers are the obvious ones.  With maybe an option to increase pressure tolerance on some other parts, for a suitable increase in cost and mass, and a distinct colour too.

But unless there is stuff to explore and encourage their use, such as underwater biomes and anomalies etc, then i don't see a real point.

[ARS]

4 hours ago, Duck McFuddle said:

Yes, only three planets (Or moons) have oceans, but if you search "KSP submarine" on YouTube, you get tons of results.

Most of the submarine in KSP is people jury-rigging rocket parts or at least use a dedicated mod. However, due to the rarity of submarine-focused mod and the general difficulty in designing submarine (More difficult than SSTO, if I have to say, because at least you have a guideline for it) the current use or submarine is either for showing off, novelty or at the very least a technlological curiosity.

I do build a lot of submarines and I know how hard it is to jury-rig rocket parts and ore tanks to build a functional submarine that can explore underwater

Spoiler

Don't get me wrong, I do welcome a new addition of submarine mechanic, it makes me happy when they add new features, but like @pandaman said, unless there's something to explore and encourage people to go underwater (such as anomalies), the seas in Kerbol system is basically just a splashdown sites with barren plains underneath

[Duck McFuddle]

4 hours ago, Rocket In My Pocket said:

Well, we don't really need new instruments for doing science in the ocean, we just need new biomes there for the existing instruments.

 

Well, for biomes I can see having a "deep ocean", "shallows" and "ocean". The deeper you go, the more science you get. 

Another thing that could be really cool would be if you run out of electricity at the bottom of the ocean, your propellers would stop and you might have to send an underwater rescue mission.

[Pthigrivi]

I would love to see this. Its one of the few exploratory aspects that even mods haven't been able to tackle. RoverDude used to have some submarine parts but they've been abandoned for some time.

[JadeOfMaar]

On 12/23/2018 at 10:53 AM, Duck McFuddle said:

Yes, only three planets (Or moons) have oceans, but if you search "KSP submarine" on YouTube, you get tons of results.

Well, I didn't just ask for stock sub parts - what about simple science experiments that can get you lots of science from the ocean floor. Yes, the oceans right now aren't very useful (As you said, just splashdown sites) but part of what I was trying to say was that a submarine update wouldn't just add parts, but also mechanics such as pressure and making the oceans more realistic and submarine-able. 

As for this being a thread, the one Aziz shows is asking for parts and not mechanics. I think parts would be easier, BUT yes it is fun to scrap together a submarine from rocket parts. So the least Squad could do would be making the oceans a little more explorable for players that do like to go underwater. 

If Squad cares about mods, they'll overlook the scant number of oceans in stock and they would cater for the vast community of planet mods by providing more for mods to do with them or, if nothing else, just fix the ocean physics. That said, there is a modest feature set already, but  most folks who don't play RSS+RO won't notice because most of these features are off or undeclared by default, but are activated and used by RSS & RO.

Part mods will easily fill the gap in making oceans playable if you or Squad give them a chance and give them incentive (introduce mechanics to give the mods something to do). Or, if enough mods achieve something, maybe Squad will attempt to provide a stock version of it:

• Stock CommNet vs RemoteTech, KSP Interstellar, JX2, and the antenna utility (part-less) mods
• KerbNet vs SCANsat and Waypoint Manager
• Stock dV (finally) vs KER, MechJeb, VOID, basic dV...

Some of these features exist in stock already.

• Parts can be configured for pressure limits.
• Parts can be configured for more or less buoyancy. Spoiler: they default to max and are always super-floaty.
• Biomes can easily be added within oceans. Just cast aside your assumption that this can't be, and do it if you can edit planets. You'll still technically cross from the Atlantic to the Pacific in KSP, you'll just always be splashed while you're crossing. And resource and science result differences will still apply.
   

Spoiler

Look at Laythe's biome map. That big dark blue spot isn't dry land. That's MOAR ocean biome!

 

On 12/22/2018 at 6:13 PM, ARS said:

This is very similar to "we need to have propellers" thread. While I agree that building submarine is fun, it's highly unlikely that there'll be a stock submarine parts. The main issue is the very niche usage (only on 3 planets) and general difficulty in maneuvering underwater (water is ridiculously dense in KSP). Only 1 mod that I've known having a ocean-related science exploration instrument based on depth (Dmagic). You don't need a stock propeller, there's already one, see that high bypass turbofan? Goliath? Set it to reverse thrust and put it behind as an impromptu ducted propeller. People has been building submarines using ore tanks and jet engines and for some people, jury-rigging a submarine from rocket parts is a lot more fun. Oceans in KSP is basically a splashdown site, and besides, no one in real life has sent any actual submarine (even underwater probes) to another planet

Water being dense is only one aspect of the problem. See my mentions of buoyancy and poor physics above.

Angel-125's mods are incredibly powerful and I've started a project to use their capabilities to make undersea exploration and science usable. His science modules allow required altitude bands and whitelisting planets so you can indeed make your own experiment which explicitly needs to work "this far" down, only while splashed, on "this" planet in KSP and turn out science.

 

On 12/23/2018 at 4:06 PM, Duck McFuddle said:

Well, for biomes I can see having a "deep ocean", "shallows" and "ocean". The deeper you go, the more science you get. 

Another thing that could be really cool would be if you run out of electricity at the bottom of the ocean, your propellers would stop and you might have to send an underwater rescue mission.

See spoiler and mention of Angel-125's mods. This can totally happen, but don't bet the farm on Squad. Part of what makes new features likely in KSP is whether something related to it is happening or has happened irl, and how far it strays from the literal interpretation of the name KSP -- how far it strays from pretending to be NASA/SpaceX/ULA, etc and running a space program and launching things into space.

Once the submarine's engines do work that way that would indeed be neat. Now throw a life support mod in and it gets 1000x more interesting. Lol.

[FleshJeb]

@JadeOfMaar Is it possible to create a mod that adds another indicator for Center of Buoyancy? Balancing subs is a pain in the stern.

[JadeOfMaar]

9 minutes ago, FleshJeb said:

@JadeOfMaar Is it possible to create a mod that adds another indicator for Center of Buoyancy? Balancing subs is a pain in the stern.

I don't know, sorry. That's way beyond my knowledge.